
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, November 25 1997      Volume 01 : Number 971



Hey
Re: Literature
Re: computer coedes
Re: Floor Mats
Re: Full-Sizer Stuff
Re: Hurst 442 info
Re: Full-Sizer Stuff
Re: Odd parts for '72 442 needed/ found!
Re: New Guy on the list
Re: Full-Sizer Stuff
Re: Literature
tranny question
Re: tranny question
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Re: Full-Sizer Stuff
Chrome vs. Nickel
Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever
Karl: re your M/C
Borla's Aurora
Speedometer gear
unsubscribe
Re: Full-Sizer Stuff
350 CCC, "P" type EGR Valve
Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever
Re: tranny question
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Re: Chrome vs. Nickel
Re: 350 CCC, "P" type EGR Valve
Toro Car Hauler
Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads are not cool
Full-Sizer Stuff
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Re: 307->409
Re: Oil Pan
Re: Speedometer gear
Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever
Re: Winter Project Dreams
Re[2]: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads are not cool
Full Size Dual Exhaust
Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever (watch your toes!)
Rear Drum Upgrade on '67 CS
Re: Oil Pan
Re: 307->409
test/ dont read
Re: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover
Re[2]: Winter Project Dreams
Outsiders 2 Cents
car craft / metal thing
Re: car craft / metal thing
Re: Outsiders 2 Cents
Re: Outsiders 2 Cents

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:19:12 -0600
From: Dominic Gomez <ngomez@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Hey

Hello, my name is Nick Gomez, and I was on the list up until a couple of
months ago. I own a 1965 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight, and while not the most
desirable car, I love it. 425 cubic inches with a four barrel, it is very
large and very classy. It's in pretty rough condition now, I suppose. I'd
like to freshen up the interior and put a nice coat of paint on it. Then, a
nice engine rebuild, punch the block out to 455 inches, some detailing, and
hopefully the addition of a 700-R4 tranny. Some 15x7 smoothies in the wheel
wells would be nice. I know I could drop a lot of money in this car, an air
bag suspension, dozens of clear coats, etc, but I want to make this a
trouble free cruiser, and move on to finding a nice, fast Oldsmobile.

I'm currently attending the University of Texas at Austin, a freshman in
radio - tv - film. My car is in Dallas, the front end and brakes are
getting rebuilt. I hope to drive it down here this Sunday. Being a student,
I long for the days when I have my own garage to park in and work on my
car. That, and the financial means which I am oh so lacking now. =)

Well, I look forward to participating more on the list. I hope I get to
chat with more big car owners. Well, take care, talk to you soon...
Nick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:23:19 -0500 (EST)
From: AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Literature

I have a book that has this info. MOTORBOOKS INTERNATIONAL, AUTHENTIC
RESTORATION GUIDES. OLDSMOBILE 442&WMACHINES RESTORATION GUIDE 1964-1972.
author t.patrick sullivan , it was $26.00

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:43:27 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: computer coedes

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> 
>  After changing the O2 sensor, did you clear the codes?
> 
> This is a critical step. Typically, disconnect the battery for a minute.

Oh yeah...  Done...  I disconnected the battery as soon as I got in the
garage that day, so I could install my old CD player, and CB Radio and
Hard wire the Radar Detector in...  
I'd say it was off for about 2 hours.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:47:58 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Floor Mats

Lloyd Ferguson wrote:

> Has anyone found a nice looking set of plain jane mats that fit and don't
> cost an arm and a leg??

I got a free set of 97 Maroon Cadillac Deville floor mats for my 87
Cutlass...  I got them outta a salvage 97 Cadillac at work once...  And
put them up, intending to use them in a rental car, then they got put in
the trash by someone else, so, I snagged them outta the trash, and
cleaned up nice, and chucked them in the car....
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:51:08 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Full-Sizer Stuff

dana@asicstiger.com wrote:
> 
> I could be mistaken about that, but I believe it is still a single exhaust
> with two outlets.  Of course, the police package may have true dual exhaust

Around here they use true dual...  The package we got at work mentioned
that the Crown Vic Interceptor package include a full true dual from
motor on down.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:54:23 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Hurst 442 info

Mike Rothe wrote:

> tearing it apart, by looking up the code numbers/letters.  The cool part
> is though, the Y engines used roller lifters, and a cam button, where
> the 442/Hursts did not.  They still used the flat tappets.  The cam
> profiles were different too. As well as the ECM and carb calibrations.
> Not THAT much different, but, different.  Also, after 85, the heads were
> somewhat more restrictive, for whatever reason.  I guess emission crap.

So ideally, as far as resistance is concerned, I can play a little with
the Y and make it dance like a 9....  Or am I just foolishly dreaming
about having a bench seated power house??? <G>
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:48:00 -0500
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: Full-Sizer Stuff

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> A couple of weeks ago someone (Mike Hall maybe?) was asking about the
> last year full-size GMs came with a dual exhaust tranny crossmember. As I
> recall the answer was sometime in the mid-70s. No reason to doubt that,
> but tonight I happened to be behind a '96 C*price police car and I
> noticed that it had duals. Dunno if they were true duals but it had 2
> pipes out the back. FWIW...

Yeah my 95 Impala SS has a true dual setup (dual cats, dual mufflers,
dual resonators) and thus has the double hump tranny crossmember. 

Jason Labay (Z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group, Inc.
95 Impala SS		
80 Olds 442 W-30
75 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:49:10 -0500 (EST)
From: AGUY4RUMLI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odd parts for '72 442 needed/ found!

Steve im not sure if i asked or not so if i did sorry. Do you have a power
seat rack for a 72 bucket? and if so how much? Joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:58:55 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: New Guy on the list

Peg O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > hey man, those are some pretty nice cars.  i am also new to the list so i
> > thought id just introduce myself also.  well, i drive a '78 olds cutlass
> 
> Ah, another '78 lover!  Welcome to the list from all of us!

Hey, I had a 78 TOO! <G>  But it wasn't Olds, or even olds powered... 
Rather Buick powered weak 350 in a 78 LeSabre, it did have a TH400 that
was yanked from behind a 403 Olds 88 Diesel (Same year)
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 00:44:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Full-Sizer Stuff

Hi Greg,

> but tonight I happened to be behind a '96 C*price police car and I 
> noticed that it had duals. Dunno if they were true duals but it had 2 
> pipes out the back. FWIW...

Yup, those would be true duals.  All LT1-equipped B/D cars came with a
dual exhaust system (T-409 stainless steel, a mediocre grade), complete
with dual catalytic converters.  C*prices of this vintage ('94-'96) came
standard with an L99 "baby-LT1" V8; these have a single exhaust pipe
showing at the rear, however, they still have dual catalytic converters
which feed into a Y pipe.  The crossmembers on all these cars is much
thicker and stronger looking: fully boxed, welded seams, and with many
stiffening ribs.  There are two holes provided for the transmission mount
to account for the wheelbase differences between B and D cars.

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:01:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Alexjam@aol.com
Subject: Re: Literature

In a message dated 97-11-24 07:48:24 EST, you write:

<< From:	boogah@en.com (Boogah Wolfe)
 Sender:	oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca
 Reply-to:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
 To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
 
 I am looking for a book that lists all of the available options (correct
 option codes) for 1972 Cutlass Supreme/ Cutlass/ 442.  Am looking to add
 some 442 parts to my Cutlass Supreme (suspension, cooling,) and want to
 make certain that I am obtaining (or at least trying to) the correct
 parts. I am thinking that I am going to need some sort of sales
 literature.  Also, I think it would be interesting information to have. 
 I dont believe the Chassis Service manual has this info.  Any help
 appreciated.  Any other book advice is appreciated also.
 
 Thanks much
 
 Joe 
 1972 Cutlass Supreme
 Boogah@en.com
  >>


In my efforts in obtaining information on my 69 olds cutlass, I came across a
book that I believe will give you all the options, and numbers, I believe,
that you need to get all the correct parts for your car.  The book is
entitled: "Oldsmobile 4-4-2, W-Machines & Hurst/Olds ID Numbers 1964-91."
 This book was done by Cars + Parts Magazine.  This is a great book and gave
me a store-house of information.  The ISBN # is 1-880524-17-1.  I hope you
can get as much information as I did in reading this book. 

James Alexander
'69 Olds Cutlass 2dr. Hardtop

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:36:25 -0700 (MST)
From: bhorn@tnc.com (Beverley Horn)
Subject: tranny question

Hey All,
 I have a question for anyone out there. I have a 1970 Rallye 350. It has a
Hurst 4-speed wide ratio transmission. I was wondering what the difference
is between "Wide Ratio" and "Close ratio" 4-speed transmissions? Which is
better Wide or Close? 

Shayne Horn
'70 Rallye350
'85 442 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:59:30 -0700 (MST)
From: bhorn@tnc.com (Beverley Horn)
Subject: Re: tranny question

>
>Okay, it's obviously a MUNCIE 4 spd, not a Hurst because they make
>shifters only. =) 
>
Sorry bout that. I was in a hurry. I meant Muncie 4-speed. Anyway, is a wide
ratio ok for street/ and weekend strip racing?

Shayne Horn
'70 Rallye 350
'85 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:51:33 -0800
From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:
> 
> At 11:31 PM 11/23/97 -0800, you wrote:
> Erik
> 
>         They should be the same.
> 
> Jim Chermack
> 
> >If you could, what would be the readings for a '72 Cutlass S.  It has a
> >350 small block.  Thanks.
> >
> >Erik B.
> >


Thanks Jim,

Appreciate it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 02:05:09 -0500 (EST)
From: BIGJERMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Full-Sizer Stuff

i use the biggest filter i can find.  the one i use is like a purolator
psl2003 or something.  it has a check ball to hold oil in the engine after
its cut off, and it has superior filtering ability.  just go to advance auto
or wherever and look up a filter for a '72 olds f85/cutlass w/350, and itll
list 2 oil filter choices.  you want the blue filter.  it is supposedly the
way to go. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 02:07:49 -0500 (EST)
From: CCRR12@aol.com
Subject: Chrome vs. Nickel

I recently took my tri-power intake in to be re-chromed as the 20 year old
job was about shot. I let the guy talk me into plating with nickel instead.
He said it would be more durable and have a more consistent finish. However
now that I have it back it seems to clash with other chrome acc. on the
engine.
The nickel plating gives it more of a yellow tint next to the chrome. I am
thinking about taking it back and having it re-plated in chrome.
 I have even considered having it powder coated in the aluminum color. I have
done that to exhaust systems that worked great. Any comments?

Randy in Okla
57 88 J/2
49 F-1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 02:50:16 -0500 (EST)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever

I dont know what is involved in actually running a list of any sort, but when
someone restricts my freedom in any way i get a little concerned.
 If you dont like a letters content, why not just delete it? All you have to
do is read the subject and delete it. Do i have to worry about what i say
now, because i might offend you??????  Bench racing is part of cars,
including oldsmobiles.. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SUBJECT, JUST DELETE IT!!!!!!!!
I pers dont hold a grudge against any q4 or anti-ford owners, its all in fun
to me.  But i think its rediculous that 1 person has the right to say what is
shown on the list.
 Im not being corny, but im damn PROUD of my freedom in america. to many
people lost their lives in wartime for that priceless freedom.  Ive read many
non-olds stories, and you know what, i dont mind.  Nothing personal, just my
thoughts on the subject.
 Im for list freedom, it isnt right if 1 person picks and chooses which
letters are ok, etc. oh well, off the oldsbox..
Bernie  NJ  aka Rcktpwr@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:25:57 -0700
From: Christian Fair <cfair@fairisaac.com>
Subject: Karl: re your M/C

Karl,
My years of junkyarding on 65-66 big olds leads me to the conclusion that
Olds used both the screw cap type and the snap on cap in those years. I got
away from the factory system a long time ago since you lose _all_ braking
if you blow one hose or hardline.

Do what you'll do, but I highly recommend the installation of a later
master cylinder with two hydraulic circuits. In my case I switched the M/C
when I put discs up front, but you don't need to do it this way. Two
circuits are safer,  but I don't know if you'd need the adjustable valve if
you're not switching to discs.

What I know about the world of 65-66 olds brakes...
cf


>I finally got a master cylinder. Before it gets added to the other
>semi-original equipment, I need to consult with those of you with '65 era
>vehicles. The remanufacured M/C I received is the snap-cap type (cap held
>down by hinged retainer which provides substantial downward force when closed
>over cap). My car now has the (original?) screw-cap M/C bolted to the power
>booster. I have seen the snap-cap in junked Dynamics w/o the power booster. I
>have seen no screw-caps on the M/Cs of other '65 era cars. Dr. Bob may recall
>a convo some time ago about this which ended with my musing that one type may
>be for power brakes and the other for manual. There are supposedly two types
>of M/C other than power/manual available that year; Bendix or Delco. The
>rubber (accordion?) cap liner in my (original?) M/C says in very small raised
>letters: "BENDIX". So when I ordered it and he timing chain (goes in in one
>week!) from Kanter, I specified power brakes, Bendix type. Did I order the
>wrong type? Anyone? I would appreciate a timely answer as my current leaking
>M/C is long overdue for replacement.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 02:11:54 -0600
From: Dominic Gomez <ngomez@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Borla's Aurora

In the December 97 issue of Car & Driver (I think, if not Road & Track)
there's a feature on Alex Borla's, owner of the Borla exhaust products
company, Olds Aurora. He's bolted on some performance products, including
some nice disc brakes, some suspension tune-ups and a higher flowing
exhaust system. He also bolted in a nitrous system with two 10lb bottles in
the trunk, and a trick switch on the dash, next to the defogger switch.
Some great performance gains while the nitrous lasts. Although the costs
for the car and the hop ups were pretty expensive, I'm glad someone did
something with the Aurora.
Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:24:35 -0800
From: Ingmar Ott <iao2@cdc.gov>
Subject: Speedometer gear

Does anyone still have the chart for the correct speedometer gear for
various rear end ratios?  I just switched my rear end from 2.56 to 3.42
and my speedometer is turning over.  Tires are about 26" diameter.  Any
leads would be helpful.

Ingmar Ott
iao2@cdc.gov

'77 Cutlass 442
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:14:43 -0500
From: Joseph Gambaccini <jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us>
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe oldsmobile jgambaccini@ci.richmond.va.us

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 04:03:56 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: Full-Sizer Stuff

Jason Labay wrote:
> 
> dual resonators) and thus has the double hump tranny crossmember.

Ok I'll show my ignorance.  What is a tranny crossmember?

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 06:51:15 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: 350 CCC, "P" type EGR Valve

I have found one thing about the 307 to 350 swap, I need to look into
EGR, it has a "P" or Positive backpressure EGR valve, it wants to open
when there is a certain amount of backpressure in the exhaust AND the
vacuum signal from the ECM.  With the 350 comes more exhaust, and I am
suspecting more pressure, so it opens early.  If I disconnect it, the
car runs MUCH better during part throttle operation.   I have been
running it disconnected for a while, I reconnected it last night, and
under part throttle, it wanted to buck and stutter around 40-45 mph,
high gear moderate acceleration.  Disconnect, and a slight hesitation is
there, but nothing like when the EGR is connected.  I wonder if it is
going lean at that time (ECM program) and the EGR just makes it worse.
When the EGR is disconnected, the part throttle acceleration is far
better than the 307 EVER could dream to be.  You would not know it is a
2.14 geared car.  

I am running a stone stock exhaust, the catalytic has been verified as
just fine, (I looked when I took it off!).  Is the factory exhaust very
restrictive?  It seems to be about 2.25 in pipe at best.  I am looking
at swapping in a dual exhaust, contemplating dual cats.  

Should I change the EGR to a normal, not "N" or "P" type?  Does the ECM
want to keep things lean during part throttle acceleration?  I have
toyed with making a new position in the accelerator pump arm like the
older Q-Jets had, and increasing the pump shot, To make it permanent, I
need to readjust the TPS.  I will try that one next.

If anyone has any advice, please let me know, I would like to get this
minor hesitation licked, and allow the use of the EGR.  Mileage is
pretty good, should be better, but still holding 15-16 back and forth to
work, and 18-19 highway.  I expect better, my 76 Delta 88 Royale got 13
and 18-19, just ~slightly~ heavier car with 2.73's and the aerodynamics
of a Mac truck.  I expect the 350 SHOULD do better.  

Thanks!
Thomas Martin
>85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 04:25:43 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever

RCKTPWR@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I dont know what is involved in actually running a list of any sort, but when
> someone restricts my freedom in any way i get a little concerned.

I don't think Greg's attempt is to restrict anyone's freedom, I think he
is trying
to avoid an e-mail war between list subscribers who use this list to
wage this
war.  Since Greg is the provider of the list and his charter was to have
it
Oldsmobile-related with technical interchange between participants, then
so shall
it be.  Sure there is going to be once and a while messages
inappropriate to this
list, however, we all must temper our enthusiasm to beat a dead horse to
the
ground.  Do personal e-mail and spare the others the flood of inane and
non-
beneficial e-mails.

>  If you dont like a letters content, why not just delete it? All you have to
> do is read the subject and delete it. Do i have to worry about what i say
> now, because i might offend you??????  Bench racing is part of cars,
> including oldsmobiles.. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SUBJECT, JUST DELETE IT!!!!!!!!

Well I tend to do what you suggest.  I usually delete through most of
the messages
since either I don't understand or it is about a car I don't even own or
care
about.  With regards to offending someone, well, I think we all should
strive to
be non-offensive and uphold a sense of tact and decorum.  Ugliness is
still 
ugly even if you don't know personally who you are directing it towards.

> I pers dont hold a grudge against any q4 or anti-ford owners, its all in fun
> to me.  But i think its rediculous that 1 person has the right to say what is
> shown on the list.

Like I said, he started the list and provides it to us all.  It is like
living
with someone in their own house.  They set the rules for everyone to
follow.  If
the rules are too constraining, then we all have to opportunity to seek
"freedom"
elsewhere.

>  Im not being corny, but im damn PROUD of my freedom in america. to many
> people lost their lives in wartime for that priceless freedom.  Ive read many

I too am proud to be an American, however, don't forget this list is not
only
perused by Americans.  We have others from Austrailia, Europe, etc.  I
think this
list should not be one of flag waving since this list has joined us
together as
a family.  It doesn't really matter where we come from since we all
belong to
the same planet.  I don't mean to target you as the source of the
over-zealous
nationalism.  I have seen others use this platform to extol the virtues
of being
an American, however, I find it inappropriate when dealing with a global
community.

> non-olds stories, and you know what, i dont mind.  Nothing personal, just my
> thoughts on the subject.

Same here.  I get enjoyment in getting to know the writers to this
list.  Knowing
their temperaments, likes, dislikes, humor.

>  Im for list freedom, it isnt right if 1 person picks and chooses which
> letters are ok, etc. oh well, off the oldsbox..

Nothing is life is completely free.  There are always strings attached. 
You just
have to determine if that string is binding or not.

Chris Sparks

P.S.  Sorry Greg for this long dissertation! :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:22:30 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: tranny question

Beverley Horn wrote:
> 
> >
> >Okay, it's obviously a MUNCIE 4 spd, not a Hurst because they make
> >shifters only. =)
> >
> Sorry bout that. I was in a hurry. I meant Muncie 4-speed. Anyway, is a wide
> ratio ok for street/ and weekend strip racing?

Yeah, I guess it could be. Better put some more heavy duty parts in it
first before you start yankin on it pretty hard. Unless you already have
some good stuff in it? This tranny might let you get off the line faster
than a close ratio competitor. I don't know exactly because I lack
experience.

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:57:25 -0600
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

I know this seems like beating the dead horse over and over, but to
clarify something.

The 1976 and 1985 Factory Olds Service Manuals list the thermostat as a
195 degree, that STARTS to open at 195, and is fully open at 212.  It
also lists that the temp is Plus or Minus 10 degrees when fully open.
So that means replacement is not needed unless it exceeds this.  So 202
to 222 is normal temps for the engine to run at.  Ideally the engine
will run at 195-200, but it is normal to run up to 222 degrees, ABOVE
where water boils under no pressure.  With a 15 lb cap the temp of pure
water goes to 240ish degrees.  

BTW, if anyone is installing an electric fan, the 87 350 T/A fan switch
is set for 220 degrees, the 305 is 230.  Just a FYI.  The parts guy at
the dealer was more than helpful.

There is my .02 worth!
Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 08:54:23 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Chrome vs. Nickel

..I let the guy talk me into plating with nickel instead. He said it would be 
more durable and have a more consistent finish...Any comments?
     
     Yes.  I had a lot of chrome work done by Verne's Chrome in So Cal back 
     when I lived there and got to know Bob Barnes (who runs the place) 
     pretty well (the photo shoot for AutoBuff magazine is a story for 
     another time, and probably another forum ;-)
     
     Anyway...  Automotive "chrome" plating actually has three separate 
     plating steps.  After the surface of the part is prepared and 
     polished, the part is first copper plated.  The purpose of the copper 
     is to provide adhesion to the parent metal.  The second layer is 
     nickel, which provides the "chrome" coloring.  The third and final 
     layer is the actual chromium, which primarily provides protection for 
     the nickel (which is relatively soft).
     
     A factory bumper has these three layers.  If you take an old bumper 
     and sandblast it, you will see the three distinct layers of plating.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:53:44 -0500 (EST)
From: J2ROCKET@aol.com
Subject: Re: 350 CCC, "P" type EGR Valve

   Hey Thomas, I don't have any EGR valves to worry about on my 50's olds
cars, but i have done this several times on newer iron. First one was a 79
 Cad. Seville with the factory 350 Olds with port EFI . I got tired of the
low power and poor gas mileage these cars all suffered from so I converted it
to Q jet carb & regular intake manifold off  a 79 350 Delta 88. I did however
use the Back pressure EGR valve for the Cad. The car ran perfect except for
the exact driveability problem that you described, off idle & mid range
acceleration throttle opening produced a bog or hesitation. Your answer may
just be very simple. If you have worked with emission controled F*rds before,
you may have noticed little different colored plastic vacumn valves plugged
in to many of their vacumn of their hoses all over the engine compartment.
These are vacumn delay valves, check valves, reducer valves, regulator
valves, & who knows what else. This is how F*rd makes their cars driveable
AFTER they are ENGINEERED. What you need to do is get 1 or 2 vac. DELAY
valves & delay the vac. to that EGR valve. Do not plug off the EGR. It is
beneficial to have because you can run more ignition advance for more power &
better mileage on a street car. That Cad. seville had much more power with
the Q Jet over the EFI. Here in CA. almost all those early EFI Sevilles &
Eldo's have been switched to Q Jets if for nothing else, just to pass
emission tests. Maybe this will help you out.           J2 ROCKET
                               
     57 Olds Super 88  J2
     55 Olds Super 88  Tri Power

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:08:50 -0600 (CST)
From: bryceman@442.com
Subject: Toro Car Hauler

Awhile back there was some discussion about an article which appeared in
Hot Rod Mechanix showing how to convert a Toro into a car hauler. After
some digging I was able to locate that issue and have put the article on my
site. It is the second item listed in the Tech section for those interested.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Oldsmobiles!
'66 Dynamic 88 B07 Apprehender
'65 442 Post Coupe
'65 Vista Cruiser
'72 H/O Convertible Pace Car Replica
Email: bryceman@442.com  URL: www.442.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:17:07 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads are not cool

>Did Edelbrock forget that some people have small block Olds's too?  I
>suppose that there's more of a market for big blocks, but hey, I know at
>least one person who'd buy small block heads.  Does anyone know if these
>heads can be made to work on a small block (403)?  Does anyone know of any
>other companies that make aluminum heads for Olds, other than Batten?

Batten and (soon) Edelbrock are the only manufacturers of aluminum heads
for the factory Olds block. The Edelbrock heads will work with a 403, *and*
will increase the compression a bit due to the smaller chambers, but you'll
have to ream out the head-bolt holes for the 1/2" head bolts, and do some
serious porting on a Performer RPM 350 intake (big-block ports are
significantly larger (taller) than the small-block ports). The factory
cast-iron intakes are also rumored to have enough meat to port-match for
the big-block heads, but if you're spending $1800 on a set of heads, what's
another $200?
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:21:51 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Full-Sizer Stuff

>A couple of weeks ago someone (Mike Hall maybe?) was asking about the 
>last year full-size GMs came with a dual exhaust tranny crossmember. As I 
>recall the answer was sometime in the mid-70s. No reason to doubt that, 
>but tonight I happened to be behind a '96 C*price police car and I 
>noticed that it had duals. Dunno if they were true duals but it had 2 
>pipes out the back. FWIW...

I think the Caprice has a 2->1->2 exhaust system, with one catalytic
converter and likely one hump. I think that the LT-1 Roadmasters and Caddys
had true duals, however, and those would bolt in. Just to repeat, the
earlier double-humps will work just fine, though the floorpan has to be
"massaged" a bit (just use a floor-jack to jack up the spot you need
clearance in, and let the car's mass do all the work for you!). Highly
recommended over the stock single-exhaust, where emissions laws allow.

>I was coming back from Wal-Mart at the time (best place around here to 
>buy gen-u-wine AC filters) where I checked on an oil filter for the '78 
>delta with a 350. To my surprise the filter listed was a PF-45. My '68 
>takes a PF-24 so they obviously changed it somewhere along the way. 
>Looking at the two side by side the gasket end looks similar but the 45 
>is a smaller overall diameter filter so it would seem to have less stuff 
>inside. Anyone know if I would do the motor harm if I used the same PF-24 
>as on the Cutlass?

I too noted the difference in filters between my 455's and my 403. I found
that the 403's mounting pad was smaller, however, requiring a
smaller-diameter gasket on the oil filter, so these would not simply
interchange. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though (that happens, I think...).
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:03:28 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

>        That's the reason they cal them idiot lights. By the time they come
>on it's usually too late. Most people prefer gauges just for that reason.
>They can see a problem starting and have a better reaction to it. I think
>everyone here will aggree that if they had a choice they would want gauges
>over idiot lights.

Jim makes a good point: with guages, you can notice changes in the
operation of the engine, so that even though everything is within the outer
limits of safe operation, an observant driver should notice that his or her
car is running 10' hotter than usual under similar conditions, and try to
discover the cause. This is in fact what OBD-II; regardless of what else
you may say about it, it's designed to do what an intelligent driver would
automatically do, even when a, say, "less-aware" (clueless) driver is at
the wheel.

>>I think you're being too conservative. The Olds 71 shop manual says that the
>>temp idiot light comes on at 243 deg, which says to me that you can safely
>>operating the engine at at least 230 deg all day long.  Of course, the temp
>>would depend alot on the temp of the thermostat you're using.

The big caveat here, of course, is that coolant temperature is only an
*indirect* indicator of the actual temperature of the metal engine parts.
It's possible to warp a head or burn a valve due to a lean condition in one
cylinder, where the extreme overheating in one area will raise the engine
coolant temperature by a noticeable amount (say from a normal 190' to
230'), but still not trigger the hot light. That's why guages are useful;
once you establish a baseline set of parameters, you notice when things
"aren't right", and (hopefully) do something about it before it's too late.

So, while 230' may be safe, it may not be, depending on whether it's
"normal" for your engine to run at that temperature. Whatever the case,
it's still not an "optimal" operating temperature, so you'll want to do
what you can to bring it down to the 180'-200' range for best performance.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:29:22 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 307->409

>I recently had the misfortune of shattering a piston.  I have the engine

Ouch! What were you turning when you did this?

>at a place to get rebuilt (I'm spending the extra couple of bucks for
>forged pistons this time!).  Tomorrow, I'll be finding out if the cylinder
>walls are gouged beyond use.  I hope not!  The engine is a 403 with a .030
>overbore already.  If it turns out that the block is unusable, I'll be at

With such a large bore to begin with, a 403 usually only can go +.040"; I
don't even think a +.060 piston is listed.

>a disadvantage.  My dad happens to have a 307 lying around.  We're
>wondering that since the 403 and the 307 are the same block, is it

Same externally, not internally; the 403 has siamesed bores (making
overheating in this area an issue), while the 307 has water jackets between
the bores.

>possible to bore the 307 to the 403 bore and use all the internals from my
>403 in it?  Hopefullt my block'll still be cool and I won't have to worry

I hope your block will be salvageable as well, because there's NO WAY that
you can bore a 307 (or any other Olds engine, for that matter) out to the
403's 4.35" bore size! You'd break into the water jackets (I believe that
the outer casing of the cylinder might not even be 4.35" big!).

I'd be surprised if you weren't able to find another good 403 block
locally; they made millions of them in the three years of production, and
you can probably pick up one for around $50. (I got a complete core 403
from a T/A for $60 after looking for only one week).

>p.s.  Don't be a fool.  Get good pistons if you're running high
>compression!  It's sad to drive an 84 88 to the dragstrip and be a part of
>the audience!

I got the forged for my 403 when I rebuilt it, and was wondering whether
I'd wasted my money for a motor that didn't spin much past 5500rpm that
often. Thank you for making me glad I spent the extra $100.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:41:53 -0600
From: "David Brown" <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Oil Pan

No, seriously, there's not enough space between the bottom of the engine
and the crossmember to do it without raising the engine. But, that's not
such a big-deal; just make sure you don't crack your distributor cap
while
jacking up the engine.
- -- 
Are Toro oil pans easier to remove, meaning, the engine doesn't need to
be raised or moved? I'm hoping . . .
- ----------
David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 4.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall
  http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/oldsfaq4.htm

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds
  http://nero.dyn.ml.org/~da_bomb/oldsfaq/zip/oldsfaq4.zip

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:42:02 -0500
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Speedometer gear

Pull your current speedo gear, count the teeth and go to the dealer for a new
gear with 33.59% more teeth. Assuming your original speedo was reading
correctly.  This is a 5$ part.


>Does anyone still have the chart for the correct speedometer gear for
>various rear end ratios?  I just switched my rear end from 2.56 to 3.42
>and my speedometer is turning over.  Tires are about 26" diameter.  Any
>leads would be helpful.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:01:55 -0700 (MST)
From: d houlton x0710 <tc75918@hpnfssvr.mdhc.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever

RCKTPWR@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I dont know what is involved in actually running a list of any sort, but when
> someone restricts my freedom in any way i get a little concerned.
>  If you dont like a letters content, why not just delete it? All you have to
> do is read the subject and delete it. Do i have to worry about what i say
> now, because i might offend you??????  Bench racing is part of cars,
> including oldsmobiles.. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SUBJECT, JUST DELETE IT!!!!!!!!
> I pers dont hold a grudge against any q4 or anti-ford owners, its all in fun
> to me.  But i think its rediculous that 1 person has the right to say what is
> shown on the list.
>  Im not being corny, but im damn PROUD of my freedom in america. to many
> people lost their lives in wartime for that priceless freedom.  Ive read many
> non-olds stories, and you know what, i dont mind.  Nothing personal, just my
> thoughts on the subject.
>  Im for list freedom, it isnt right if 1 person picks and chooses which
> letters are ok, etc. oh well, off the oldsbox..
> Bernie  NJ  aka Rcktpwr@aol.com
> 

Perhaps you should re-read the charter that was e-mailed to you when you 
joined this list.  Being a member and posting inane, whining high-school level
"my-car-is-faster-than-yours" crap to this list is NOT your god given right. 
It is a privledge provided by the administrator of the list.  When you ask
for the PRIVLEDGE to be a member of the list, you agree to abide by its
guidelines for the good of all on the list.  If nobody follows the charter,
the list turns into a mess of useless garbage, hence the friendly reminders
from the admin to keep things on track.

- --Dan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:12:21 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Winter Project Dreams

- ---"Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM> wrote:
..One of the things I've thought about for awhile is to replace the 
 2-speed Jetaway with a TH350...<SNIP>

> The Jetaway uses a TH400-style kickdown switch while the TH350 uses a 
> cable. Anyone know what's involved in retrofitting one of these?
>      
>      Get the carb bracket from the donor car (assuming it is also at 
>      Q-jet).  The bracket from TH-350 cars have provisions for both
the 
>      throttle cable and the kickdown cable.  It all bolts up easily.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     No! The TH350 in the 69-72 cars has the downshift cable connected
to the gas pedal assy. There is square hole in the firewall close to
the throttle cable which the downshift cable fits through. It's
plugged with a plastic piece, just pry it out. You also need a TH350
gas pedal which has an extra tab welded to the metal arm to accept the
end of the downshift cable 

    Now I'm not sure if a 68 would have the hole for the downshift
cable in the firewall....my ex-2speed 69 does...but 69s were available
with the TH350 as an option. I'd cut the hole if it was my car....just
measure any 69-72 TH350 Cutlass for the correct position :)

===
John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv   
66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv 
70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme

__________________________________________________________________
Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 11:29:12 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads are not cool

..The Edelbrock heads will work with a 403, *and* will increase the 
compression a bit due to the smaller chambers, but you'll have to ...do some 
serious porting on a Performer RPM 350 intake (big-block ports are 
significantly larger (taller) than the small-block ports).
     
     What ever happened to the intake sold by H.O. Racing (R.I.P.) for just 
     this sort of thing.  Twenty years ago, they were in the business of 
     swapping BB Olds heads on to the 403s in Trans Ams.  The H.O. intake 
     had the larger runners to mate up to the big block heads.  Did any 
     company pick up the design when they went belly up?  I'm amazed 
     Mondello doesn't sell this.
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:25:41 -0500
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: Full Size Dual Exhaust

Message text written by Dan Anderson
>I could be mistaken about that, but I believe it is still a single exhaust
with two outlets.  Of course, the police package may have true dual
exhaust<

The 1994-1996 B-Bodies (Caprice, Impala SS, 9C1 Caprice (Police), Buick
Roadmaster, etc.) with the LT-1 350 V8 engine have TRUE dual exhaust!!  It
is completely separate from the exhaust manifolds back.  The driver's side
stock pipe is a little flattened to clear the crossmember, but my
replacment exhaust on my 1996 Impala SS is 2.5" all of the way back.  This
crossmember shoudl be easy to obtain since many police cars came with this
option.  

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8 
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:39:33 -0500
From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: reply to whoever (watch your toes!)

At 02:50 AM 11/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I dont know what is involved in actually running a list of any sort, but when
>someone restricts my freedom in any way i get a little concerned.
> If you dont like a letters content, why not just delete it? All you have to
>do is read the subject and delete it. Do i have to worry about what i say
>now, because i might offend you??????  Bench racing is part of cars,
>including oldsmobiles.. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SUBJECT, JUST DELETE IT!!!!!!!!
>I pers dont hold a grudge against any q4 or anti-ford owners, its all in fun
>to me.  But i think its rediculous that 1 person has the right to say what is
>shown on the list.
> Im not being corny, but im damn PROUD of my freedom in america. to many
>people lost their lives in wartime for that priceless freedom.  Ive read many
>non-olds stories, and you know what, i dont mind.  Nothing personal, just my
>thoughts on the subject.
> Im for list freedom, it isnt right if 1 person picks and chooses which
>letters are ok, etc. oh well, off the oldsbox..
>Bernie  NJ  aka Rcktpwr@aol.com

OH FOR PETE'S SAKE! Bernie, buddy, take a couple of deep breaths, step back
and think about what you are saying. Freedom is not a club with which to
smite. It is a sword with two sharp edges. Yes, all the members of this
group are free to spout off on any subject that tickles their fancy, but
they should also feel endowed with freedom when they are reminded, however
harshly, that we all agreed to some rules when we joined this list. Common
courtesy is under attack here, not freedom. It is common courtesy that
makes living in a free society (or list) pleasant. Save the freedom bit for
a more appropriate arena, something like environmentalists condemning our
cars. We are all here to help each other in the pursuit of a common goal:
enjoying our Oldsmobiles regardless of age or model.

All:
I do not think Bernie is being corny. I am also proud of freedom in
America. I will stand beside him and fight for it. However, the unbridled
pursuit of personal freedom is anarchy, and I am sure anarchy on this list
will cause it's death. Greg will get tired of baby sitting and the people
exchanging valuable information will leave because they are tired of wading
through the crap (I know of a couple of instances where that has happened
already). I don't think any of us want that, so if you still feel you
freedom is being restricted, start your own list and make up any rules you
like. But, until that time, please respect the rules of the list you joined
of your own free will.

I apologize for the bandwidth wastage. I'll wait *outside* for anyone who
wants to take me to task.

Lurk mode on
Ray

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:07:54 -0500 (EST)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Rear Drum Upgrade on '67 CS

Am now rebuilding the rearend/susp on my '67 convert. Took the 12 bolt 3.08
to Hooper's in Sun Valley to rebuild and convert to Posi--$250 seemed pretty
reasonable.

Now while I'm at it, I want to bolt on some larger rear drums to complement
my new front discs. But roaming the local Pick-your-Part can't seem to easily
find the bigger brakes with a proper compatible bolt pattern for the backing
plates.

Anybody out there "been there, done that" can tell me where to look?

Thanks
Peter Sliskovich
CoupeKing@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:18:51 -0800 (PST)
From: John Pajak <jspajak@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pan

- ---David Brown <dbrown@mh1.mcis.uchicago.edu> wrote:
<SNIP>Are Toro oil pans easier to remove, meaning, the engine doesn't
need to be raised or moved? I'm hoping . . .

!!!!!
I'm assuming the Toro pan is on a Cutlass,88, or 98. If so you still
have to jack the engine to get the pan off. It's not hard though......

===
John Pajak                            JSPajak@rocketmail.com
Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak

65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv   
66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv 
70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme
 

__________________________________________________________________
Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:21:00 -0500 (EST)
From: BIGJERMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: 307->409

sorry, but no other olds block can be bored to the size of the 403.  not even
the diesel 350 blocks 403s can be somewhat safely bored to .40 over but i
wouldnt suggest going over that unless you have a non- windowed block.  hope
this helps

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:52:54 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: test/ dont read

ocp/wc  n-954 harris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:10:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Clayton Pierce <zcwp11@Access.ETSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover

Yep,

That would be my car...  First off, don't worry... there are fewer people
on the Rover list (yep, there is such a bugger) than there are on the Olds
list.

> > > Attention all Oldsmobile loving guys & gals I need your help.
> > >
> > > I am currently in risk of dying of embarassment.
> > > Ps. I'm not a bad sport, I dont mind loosing, but not to a bl**dy Rover
> > > pleeese.

Now Now, see, now everybody gives Rovers such a hard time... yah, it's a
foor door, but for 1980 it wasn't a bad car!  I mean, how many other
"sports sedans" were on the market then?  There are a bunch now of
course... I think that if anything it was probably a bit _AHEAD_ of its
time!  It's got quite a lot going for it... nice body styling (again, at
least for a four door), a V8, it's got a fair amount of luxury in the
interior acoutrements.  If only it wasn't for those damned British
electronics... that and the cheap foam they used in the headliner...  It
is a fun car to drive though... got that famous British suspension and
handling... that and cruising at 120+ is only about 3000 rpm and is easy!
Now if only it was a 5 speed (yes, that was an option, yes, in a 4-door)
rather than an automatic car.

> > 
> > Isn't there a Clayton Pierce on the Olds list?  If so, could it be the
> > same one that sent in the Rover?
> 
> Yup.  Clay's a list member and that's his rover.  Don't feel too bad if
> you happen to lose to it.  It does have a 215 V8 that was originally of
> Buick-Olds-Pontiac design.  Too bad the wire harness isn't of BOP design
> too.  ;)  

Yep, It's got that 215 all right... basically still the same old motor...
just updated a bit... if I'm not mistaken the old motors had a bit of a
problem keeping their head gaskets in one piece... the newer iteration of
the motor has no such problem.  Damn straight about the electrics though.
Out of 6 power window switches, I've got 3 (sometimes 2) that work
properly!  That would be why my daily driver is an Oldsmobile... that
would also be why I've been building my Olds for speed rather than my
Rover... could you imagine what the electrics would be like if I
customized sh*t?  Incedentally, one time I jump-started a Ford when his
battery gave up the ghost... now that would have been an interesting
picture!  A Rover jump-starting a Ford... the picture of reliability...
well, at least compared to the Rover it is :-)  The 1980 was the _VERY
FIRST YEAR_ for Bosch fuel injection system it has... so you can just
imagine the problems I have... that, and it's hard to even find a shop
manual on the car!  My car has fairly low miles (85k) but it sat for years
(under a car cover so body is in good shape) in Atlanta.

For the requisite Olds info in this message see my signature :-)

Anyways,
Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling, Or Roving, Or Whatever...
Clayton Pierce,
zcwp11@ETSU.edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com
1984 _OLDSMOBILE_ Cutlass Supreme (350 4bbl, TH375, 3.73:1, 7Xk miles)
1980 Rover 3500 SD1 (3.5l (215) EFI, BW-65, 85k miles)

> 
> Greg Pruett
> 72 Vista Cruiser
> 67 Cutlass Supreme
> 80 Cutlass Calais
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 97 13:46:16 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Winter Project Dreams

..No! The TH350 in the 69-72 cars has the downshift cable connected
to the gas pedal assy...

     Oops!  I must humbly admit that John is correct.  Second thing to 
     go and all that...  I actually did this swap over ten years ago, 
     and that was the last TH350 I've ever touched, so unfortunately 
     the memory is a little rusty.  Sorry for the misinformation.

There is square hole in the firewall close to the throttle cable which 
the downshift cable fits through...You also need a TH350 gas pedal 
which has an extra tab welded to the metal arm to accept the end of 
the downshift cable 

     I may have one if you need it, Greg.
     
Now I'm not sure if a 68 would have the hole for the downshift
cable in the firewall...

     Well, relying on my obviously dubious, but recently jogged memory, 
     :-)  I _do_ recall needing to cut a hole in the firewall of that 68 
     F-85.  Lacking a square punch, I did the ol' drill-lots-of-holes- 
     and-file-what's-left-to-fit trick.
     
     Sorry again about the bad info.
     
     Joe...uh...Joe...PADAVANO...yeah, that's it.  Where's my cane?
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30
     (I think)
     

     
     

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 13:25:32 -0000
From: Tom Starkey <tstarkey@bi.com>
Subject: Outsiders 2 Cents

Hello All!

I also am new to the list, sort of.  I've been subscribed for a few weeks, getting the feel of the list by reading the postings.  I joined the list because I , rather impulsively, bought a '68 Olds Cutlass Supreme.  I know the difference between a screwdriver and a socket wrench (unless it's late Friday or Saturday evening), but I'm not a TRUE CAR ENTHUSIAST. Thats why I joined the list, I like to work on my car, I have a limited budget, I can't afford to make too many mistakes and so on.  The overall tone of the list (with some exceptions) seems to be "hey dummy, why'd you do that!" or "that's was stupid, my way is better".  I feel I'm way under car educated to even post a question, I've been relying on the FAQ section, which is incredibly useful. If I can ever get my car to the point that I can brag about it, I'll join you all.  I like fishing to, so I know how to brag (exagerate)!!

Anyway, I may still ask some questions, but I think I'll do it by private e-mails for now. 

By the way, MY car can leak tranny fluid faster than any of yours!

Happy Motoring!

Tom Starkey
'68 Olds Cutlass Supreme (I even love saying it!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:05:48 -0800 (PST)
From: PSHENG@scuacc.scu.edu
Subject: car craft / metal thing

I can't believe the car craft "top 100 muscle cars" article didn't include
the '70 442 in the top 10 olds list- that was the fastest 442 ever..
instead they included the rallye 350?  Don't get me wrong, rallye 350's are 
cool, but they're just cutlasses with stickers...

On a completely unrelated note, I have a 72 cutlass supreme w/ the 350, and 
on the front portion of the intake manifold to the right of the carb 
(if you are standing in front of the car looking at the engine) there is 
a metal loop attached to the manifold that kind of looks like a coil strap,
but it's not the coil strap since that's behind the carb- so what the heck
is that thing for anyways?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:25:01 -0800
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: car craft / metal thing

PSHENG@scuacc.scu.edu wrote:
> 
> I can't believe the car craft "top 100 muscle cars" article didn't include
> the '70 442 in the top 10 olds list- that was the fastest 442 ever..

Is this true.  I was under the impression that the 68/69 H/Os were the
fastest...


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Outsiders 2 Cents

On Thu, 25 Nov 1993, Tom Starkey wrote: 
> I also am new to the list, sort of. 

Welcome, Tom!

> I like to work on my car, I have a limited budget, I can't afford to make
> too many mistakes and so on.  The overall tone of the list (with some
> exceptions) seems to be "hey dummy, why'd you do that!" or "that's was
> stupid, my way is better"

That shouldn't be. Never fell like you shouldn't be able to ask a 
question here. If that's your perception, then we have a problem and we 
*all* should clean up our act!


Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:37:10 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Outsiders 2 Cents

Tom Starkey wrote:
> 
> Hello All!

Welcome to the list, Tom.  If you can tell good fish stories, you're
already off to a good start in the car line.  To tell you the truth,
this list has taken a more biting tone as of late.  I've been on here
about 9 months and have enjoyed it a lot.  Lots of people with lots of
knowledge on here with us rank (or unranked) rookies.  On the whole they
are a very tolerable group to ask what would appear to some to be stupid
questions.  Every once in a while a renegade hits the list, but not
usually very often or too long lasting.  So ask away, because someone
will be able to assist you.


> By the way, MY car can leak tranny fluid faster than any of yours!

Trying to get another mine leaks faster than yours thread going huh?  I
can see people heading outside with knives, screwdrivers, etc to start
working on the leaks already.  (Just kidding Tom.)  At any rate welcome
and enjoy.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #971
********************************

