
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, October 20 1997       Volume 01 : Number 913



OCA Web Site Logo Available for Use
Re: "Classy looking..."
test
Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car
Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?
Pulling front clip to swap motors (was Re: leaky trans lines)
Re: 68 delta 88
Re: H*lp with '77 403?
Re: Exhaust, rallye-pac, paint
Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car
Re: Olds Questions
Re: New find, future hunt?
Re: 
Guages
Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?
RE: crank journals
Re: H*lp with '77 403?
forgot 77 toro detail
Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)
UNBOUNCE: wire colors - what's what?
ADMIN: List Was Down
Re: H*lp with '77 403?
$1,000,000 For Christmas
Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?
Re: 68 delta 88
Re: H*lp with '77 403?
Re: '78 Delta: Shot Myself in the Foot
Re: H*lp with '77 403?
Re: Olds Questions
Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)
Re: "Classy looking..."
Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)
Re: Olds Questions
Re:  Disc brake conversions.
Re: Any Olds guys in IL??
windshield wipers blades for 1976 Delta Royale
Re: Olds Questions
Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)
Re: Guages
Updated AGAIN!
Re: Slow Email
Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)
Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?
91+ custom cruiser
Re: New find, future hunt?
69 442 W-30
Re: UNBOUNCE: wire colors - what's what?
molding removal
65 <4|4|2> LIST ONLY
Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car
Re: H*lp with '77 403?
Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car
Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car
Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?
Re: 83 Hurst - Wont Start

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:30:28 -0400
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: OCA Web Site Logo Available for Use

All,
Anyone who has a link to the OCA web site is free to "long term borrow"
the OCA logo there, ocaclear.gif, and use it as part of their link to
it.

A little heads-up.  I wrote and article for Journey with Olds about the
OCA web site and now I'm a regular columnist about Oldsmobile's and
automobive sites of interest on the web so look out current Olds web
site hosts ;-)  You just may get some publicity in print! I'll be going
back and forth between commercial and hobbyists sites.  I WILL NOT BE
CRITIQUING THEM as I am not the web god (right Bryce) but pointing them
out and letting the rest of the world know about them.
Along those lines I'll be updating the site next week and if you want to
listed in the links page, drop me a line as I lost some of the previuos
messages I recieved.  I plan to do a "Member Site of the Month".

The full blown OCA web site, probably www.oldsclub.org, will be up by
end of year.

Later
 
 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America #18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:22:40 -0600
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: "Classy looking..."

Dustin Cross wrote: I saw an green '81 cutlass quite a while back that
had pink wheels,

> remember that one chuck?
> 
> Dustin

Hmm.  Seem to recall that one all right.  Also seem to recall that when
those pink rims were on there the car ~never~ had less than five girls
in it...  

Hmm.  Maybe been five ~total~ since then.  Anybody know where we can get
some hot pink paint good for wheels???
- -- 
    
             Charley Buehner       | mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
             Box 524               | mailto:charley@rocketship.com
             Sidney, Montana 59270 | http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner
             "Rockit 1"            | '81 Olds Cutlass 425
             "BT UR 4D"            | '70 Buick GS 455
	     "TRBO LVR" (Maybe???:)| '83 Turbo Regal
               	     Real Cars ~Don't~ Wear Bowties!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:25:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: test

test

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:37:46 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car

Clay V Merenuk wrote:
> 
> I have the Reliability Copy that came with my 69 442.
> It has a list of the factory options, etc.  Under Special
> instructions it reads, 1969 Zone Dealer Announcement
> Car.  Does anybody know what this means?  I have
> talked with the owner of the Dealership and he
> remembers the car.  He said it was a showroom
> floor car.  The only problem is that he got the car
> when it had 2,000 miles on it and from the original
> Dealership.  I am unable to get a hold of J. P, Letts
> of Jim Letts Oldsmobile, Atlanta, Ga.  On the back of
>  New Vehicle Warranty has the persons name and a
> sales date of 11-17-69 and under that it reads Demo
> 10-11-68.  Could it of been a showroom floor car?  Can
> anyboby help me understand what all the info. is on the
> Reliability Copy?
> 
> Clay
> 69 442 convertible

Hey Clay,
	Haven't met too many people close to me...so I try to keep tabs 
on them...your about 2 hours from me...I'm in Greenwood, S.C. ......I 
want to tcome to 1 of the Dixie Olds meets...are you memeber?...let me 
know if you are and I'll see if I can make the next meet...Hoagie


1970 Cutlass SX convertible
1971 442 W--30 covertible
1971 442 sports coupe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:18:00 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?

>I sell new Oldsmobiles, Pon*iac,B*ick,GMC, and yes even Chrys**r and I've
>got to fid a way to justify spending time reading this list .......... I'll
>make ya a helluva deal.

I'd love to be able to say yes to this question, but you've got to realize
what it is that you'd be offering me:

A new car that will cost me a lot of money in financing, insurance and
taxes, but which will go down in value for some time to come. I imagine the
entry price, even with a good deal, for a new Olds with a decent amount of
power and convenience, is going to be around $22,000 (I'm not counting the
new Toyota Cutlass, which wouldn't fit the bill).

In contrast, if I went with a high-end, excellent condition Olds musclecar
(say a regular 1970 442 convertible) for around $14,000, I'd have a
distinctive car that would retain its value, if not increase, and cost me
less in insurance and taxes. And though it would get poorer gas mileage,
$8,000 can buy a *lot* of gas.

Or, I could buy a 442 or Toronado in need of some work (say, for around
$4,000-$6,000), and drive it as I restored it.

Thanks for the offer, but you've got a hard case to make in order to get me
behind the wheel of a new anything, even a new Olds.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:08:10 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Pulling front clip to swap motors (was Re: leaky trans lines)

>> Speaking of which... while I was a mechanic last summer... guy was
>>dropping his
>> ATrans, and rather than fight with the trans line fittings in
 [snip]
>On this note, does any one else on the list pull the whole
>front clip when
>he/she does an engine swap on an A-body????????????
>
>	My brother thinks I am nuts. But if nuts saves my back and knuckles but
>adds an hour onto my project.......

I've pulled motors both with and without a front clip installed, and see
pros and cons both ways. Obviously, if you have other work to do, or if you
really want to detail the frame, removing the front clip makes that job
much easier. OTOH, if you're good at it, you might get it all off with help
in an hour, but factor in another hour to get it back on, at least. It
would help to keep track of the number and position of the alignment shims,
as getting everything to fit back as it once did is not always that simple,
and can be very time consuming. Aside from the time, another drawback is
the wiring that you have to disconnect and reconnect, though if you took
the clip off in one piece, after unbolting the wheelwells-to-frame bolts
and removing the front bumper, it's just a matter of the two front-support
bolts, the two lower bolts on each fender, and the three (or four, if
there's a BB brace) bolts on the upper corner of the fender. If the wheels
are off, you can unbolt the front wiring harness from the firewall, and not
have to bother with any of the wiring; you wouldn't even need to remove the
hood.

I wouldn't pull the whole front end, however, if I was just swapping a
motor, but everything else (tranny, exhaust, radiator, etc.) was going to
remain intact. You wouldn't need all the extra room you would gain, so it
wouldn't be worthwhile.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:21:01 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 68 delta 88

>I have a '68 Delta 88, 2 door, 455, two-barrel, 67,000 miles that was my
>first car back in 1982.  Thinking about getting it restred and running
>and was wanting some tips or encouragement from anyone.

Do it! It'll be like reuniting with an old friend. I'm finally getting my
first car from back in 1983 together and on the road, though I thought at
times that it would never happen.

What does your 88 need in order to get back on the road?
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 16:14:35 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: H*lp with '77 403?

..What IS this thing, what's it do?...
     
     Chris,
     
     You're correct in assuming that it's a Hall-effect sensor.  Olds 
     played with crank-trigger ignitions on the Toro in the late 70's.  
     I've never seen one, but I _do_ recall reading about them.  Sounds 
     like a rare piece.
     
     Now that I think about it, I should probably use it on my crossram!
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:18:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: DrkSole@aol.com
Subject: Re: Exhaust, rallye-pac, paint

In a message dated 97-10-19 16:16:12 EDT, you write:

<< Rallye-Pac
 
 Is it possible to hook up rallye gauges to a non rallye pac dash? What do
you
 need to do? Is the wiring already there?
  >>

It is possible, I did this swap on my 73.. you need to change the sending
units for the oil pressure and coolant temp., and you might have to change
some of the wires on the dash connector to match the rallye pac.. 

DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme
67 Delta 88 Custom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:33:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: GPMTRADER@aol.com
Subject: Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car

I don't know what a "Zone Dealer Announcement Car" is. 

But if its a Trophy Blue convertible or HT with air and automatic, buckets
and a console, in Class II conditon, I'd like to make an offer to buy it.

gpmtrader@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:06:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: DrkSole@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Questions

In a message dated 97-10-19 14:12:06 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I have a few of questions:
 
 1) I have a 1970 Oldsmobile Rallye 350, I am looking for OAI hood pins (I am
 not sure of there exact name) because I have one on the left side and am
 missing one on the right hand side. I am worried about warping the hood if I
 drive too fast. Does anyone know where I could pick up a set of these OAI
 hood pins? >>

 Well, the Paddock has them for $59.95 a pair.  

<< 2) My Rallye 350 has a 403 in it. The guy I bought it from said that he
 wasn't sure where the original engine was. Should I look for a 1970 Rocket
 350 to put in it or should I just leave the 403 in it and supe it up? Does
 anyone know where I could pick a a cheap, powerful Rocket 350 from around
1970?
 3) What would be the cheapest but best hi-performance carb to put on the
 403? Is the 403 a good engine to supe up? 

 I am only 16 so I don't want to dish out TOO much cash. But I luv my
 Oldsmobiles.
                                             P.S. What were the specs on a
 1973  403? (Compression, hp?)>>


Well, they didn't make 403's till the 77 model year.. and those had 8.5:1
compression, and around 180 hp.. though the torque was a lot higher than the
350's of the day.  the heads were more restrictive than pre 73 350 cylinder
heads, though those can be adapted. I'd say stay with the 403, you don't have
to original engine anyway, so you don't have to worry about the numbers
matching, any 350 mods will work on the 403, and you'll get more power due to
the 53 extra cubic inches. Only major problem on the 403 is the windowed main
webs.. though those won't pose a problem to a car being driven on the street
or one that stays under 5500 rpm.  I think the quadrajet on the engine should
work out well enough, it is what came on the engine originally..though a
friend of mine has a Carter AFB that works pretty well.

close enough guys?

DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme
67 Delta 88 Custom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:38:19 -0600
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: New find, future hunt?

SORRY!  I WAS INTENDING TO SEND THAT DIRECT TO CHARLEY   

Dustin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:35:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: AKing66@aol.com
Subject: Re: 

i'll check into it........would you know where i can get a right fender?

66 olds F85....

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 16:40:04 EDT
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Guages

  I want to put a set of gauges (oil pressure, temp, and tach) in my '69
4-4-2.  Any suggestions, (pros and cons) of what's available on the market.
Enlighten me please!

  Glenn
  '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:01:06 -0600
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?

Robert Barry wrote:
> 
> >I sell new Oldsmobiles, Pon*iac,B*ick,GMC, and yes even Chrys**r and I've
> >got to fid a way to justify spending time reading this list .......... I'll
> >make ya a helluva deal.
>
> A new car that will cost me a lot of money in financing, insurance and
> taxes, but which will go down in value for some time to come. I imagine the
> entry price, even with a good deal, for a new Olds with a decent amount of
> power and convenience, is going to be around $22,000 (I'm not counting the
> new Toyota Cutlass, which wouldn't fit the bill).

I looked at a brand new CS awhile back (it was the older style)  I was thinking of 
getting rid of my '89 CS   all I found at the dealer was dissapointment  I wanted a 
loaded car, cloth interior, lumbar bucket seats, heads up display, and a power sunroof.

I was told; cant get power everything without leather seats, dont offer lumbar seats 
anymore, dont put heads up in the Cutlasses anymore, dont offer factory sunroofs anymore 
in the Cutlass.    not sure how much is true and how much was just BS to get me to buy 
one of the cutlass's on the lot (all identical options, all with cream interior, one 
red, one black, one dark blue)   sticker price was over $24,000  (I got 'em down to 
$19,750 before I got bored)   

anyway I decided that it was better to keep my loaded '89 with cloth interior, buckets 
(not lumbar) and my aftermarket sunroof   since I  would have been paying another 
$12,000 for a car I liked LESS than the one I already have  then of course then I'd pay 
more to licence more to insure.....

I'm still thinking of parting with the '89   dumping the $$$ into my '68  and living 
happily ever after......

Dustin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:54:27 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: RE: crank journals

> I have polished my journals using 320 paper then 400 paper soaked in oil the
>journals are very smooth even when i run my fingernail over it . Is this

Hmmm, no doubt they are smooth; more importantly, however, are they still
round? Given the minimal bearing clearances, a .002" variation from the
centerline of that journal might close up the bearing clearances at certain
spots.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:05:43 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: H*lp with '77 403?

>Went to view a crusty '77 Toronado. OK, flappy doors, no xst system, ravaged
 [snip]
>This here 403 had a weird thingy on the harmonic balancer, just aft of the
>pulleys. Loos like a sprocket w/ dull teeth. Like a Hall-effect sensor ring.
>Diameter about 1-2" greater than that of the balancer. On the driver's
side is
>some sort of sensor, presumably the Hall effect unit. The burning question,
>then:
>
>What IS this thing, what's it do?
>
>No Fuel Injection, plain old HEI ignition, no electrics in the carb. So, what
>would a computer do? If not for a computer's info, then why do we need such
>accurate info as to crank position or speed?

Ah, but it _is_ for a computer's info! The 200hp 403 installed in the '77
Toro (one year only) had a computer-controlled ignition system. Don't know
where the brain for it is, but you may notice something unusual about the
distributor, if it is the original.

Aside from that distributor, though, I'm not sure what's so different about
the '77 403 to give it 15-25 more hp than all other 403's. The heads are
the same, but the cam might be different, I don't know. Sure wouldn't hurt
to have another 403 around, though...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:10:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: forgot 77 toro detail

> Dang, I forgot...
>
> The 77 Toro was built in Lansing. Has cruise, separate conventional mechanism.
> Other oddity I noticed: The temp sensor, driver's side, front of intake
> manifold, has a SCREW-ON connector. Unscrewed, it revealed more or less normal
> old 1/4" flat tab connectors. But the screw-on connector is similar to
> military, aviation, other extreme applications.
>
> Helps pin down what this disk was for?
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:11:59 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)

>>Isn't that just a little ironic?  I try and help out my friends who were
>>in a jam, and I end up damaging my car, burning both hands (I forgot to
>>mention that), and losing fresh Prestone that was in for only 1600km!
>>(not to mention a bottle of stop-leak!)
>>
>>When I finallly got inside, I was furious...a situation like that could
>>p*ss the Pope off...but, I just try to remind myself this:  if I hadn't
>>have done this, they could've been killed, because that driver was
>>pretty much wasted when he left...
>>
>>I know I'm p*ssed off, and I know I have a right to be, but I don't want
>>to consider the alternative...
>>
>>P.S.--Here's the part I still can't believe...it's now 2:52am, and I
>>have to get up at 7:30 for work tomorrow!
>
>Dave,
>
>I know it dosent seem fair, but you did do the right thing.  A car (even an
>OLDS) is replacable at a price.  Friends are not once they are gone they are
>gone for good.
>
>I am glad to see that their are still people out there who care about the
>things like that.

Me too. Just think, though, Dave, your friends saved you a big headache; if
you didn't blow that radiator hose last night, you'd have blown it on your
way into work this morning! Don't be too mad at them, though; they didn't
cause the hose to leak.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:42:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: wire colors - what's what?

Not on the list as far as I know, so reply directly...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	LlordXero@aol.com
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: wire colors - what's what?!

I've got an 1985 CS and I've installed a JVC CD player.. In the dash I've
only got the bare wires coming out, the previous owner had cut off the
harnesses just to make it difficult... I'm having a bit of trouble figuring
out which wires are hot, which are illumination, power antenna lead, etc...
if anyone's got this info on the color configuration (since it appeared to
have changed since 1985) I'd be much appreciative.. thank you much...

p.s. - I've already tried the owner's manual and chiltons..

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:45:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: List Was Down

Chebucto Net was having problems from around midday Saturday until midday 
today, which explains the lack of traffic. Seems fixed now, the messages 
are just rollin' in... some may be lost in space for a while though. Keep 
watching...

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:49:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: H*lp with '77 403?

On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Chris Brown Witt wrote:
> This here 403 had a weird thingy on the harmonic balancer, just aft of the
> pulleys. Loos like a sprocket w/ dull teeth. Like a Hall-effect sensor ring.
> Diameter about 1-2" greater than that of the balancer. On the driver's side is
> some sort of sensor, presumably the Hall effect unit. The burning question,
> then:
> What IS this thing, what's it do?
> No Fuel Injection, plain old HEI ignition, no electrics in the carb. So, what
> would a computer do? If not for a computer's info, then why do we need such
> accurate info as to crank position or speed?

I looked in my '78 manual and see no mention of this, but the Toro that 
year (78) had something called EST, which included some sort of 
controller in the ignition circuit that had a vacuum line running to it 
and was separate and apart from the rest of the HEI as near as I can 
tell... the manual is rather cryptic as to what it actually did.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:40:54 -0600
From: emailing@tnlb.com
Subject: $1,000,000 For Christmas

Just in Time For Christmas -

$1-Million Dollar Bills - Look Like The Real McCoy

Super Gift For the Hard-To-Shop-For on Your Christmas Shopping List 

Great Stocking Stuffer

Only $5.00 each - Three For $10.00 

To Order, Call 317-885-1357

Visa & MC Accepted.


*Dealer Inquiries Welcome


 If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:04:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?

I went the other day to the dealer where I get my parts and looked at a 
couple of new Olds in the lot. The Intrigue was nice enough, but with tax 
was about $32K Canadian. Seems pricey.

There was a new 88 there too, I liked it better to be honest. Nice 
metallic red paint, but what annoyed me was more a comment on the cars of 
today than this one in particular. The interior was a beigey cloth. When 
I looked at the sticker, what do they call it? "Neutral" cloth. Sheesh! 
At least call it beige, or sand, or tan or something. Why we can't have 
color in our interiors anymore is one of my pet peeves. A long way from 
the days of "New-Matic" ride and all the other olds-speak of years past.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:08:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: 68 delta 88

On Sat, 18 Oct 1997, Zaye Brewer wrote:
> I have a '68 Delta 88, 2 door, 455, two-barrel, 67,000 miles that was my
> first car back in 1982.  Thinking about getting it restred and running
> and was wanting some tips or encouragement from anyone.

If it's in any kind of shape at all, I'd say do it. Keep in mind that a
full-sizer is a lot harder to restore than a Cutlass because there are
virtually no repro parts available (I think weatherstrip is about it). 
But it probably doesn't owe you anything, and is probably paid for, and
you wouldn't get much if you tried to sell it right now if it needs
restoring. Even if you did, you'd always regret it if you're a car person.
A '68 is dead-simple to work on, and even if you're not an ace mechanic
you can learn as you go. Those are beautiful cars -- I say do it, and
preserve a piece of your history. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:52:12 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: H*lp with '77 403?

where is this 403?



At 03:48 AM 10/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>OK, all youse experts. My service manual collection only goes to '76, and today
>I saw something that even baffled *me*. I gotta know what this is...
>
>Went to view a crusty '77 Toronado. OK, flappy doors, no xst system, ravaged
>interior, but runs good. And you know what sort of motor a '77 Toro has, right?
>Sure you do. The 403. The solid main web 403, right? ;-) Whatever, it's a "good
>running" 403 [see earlier list of definitions...]
>
>Ok, to get to the point...
>
>This here 403 had a weird thingy on the harmonic balancer, just aft of the
>pulleys. Loos like a sprocket w/ dull teeth. Like a Hall-effect sensor ring.
>Diameter about 1-2" greater than that of the balancer. On the driver's side is
>some sort of sensor, presumably the Hall effect unit. The burning question,
>then:
>
>What IS this thing, what's it do?
>
>No Fuel Injection, plain old HEI ignition, no electrics in the carb. So, what
>would a computer do? If not for a computer's info, then why do we need such
>accurate info as to crank position or speed?
>
>btw, anyone need a cheap 403? The lady's landlord says move the car...
>--
>Chris  B. Witt
>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
>wittchri@pilot.msu.edu
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:00:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: '78 Delta: Shot Myself in the Foot

Resending this, with additional info...

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:06:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: '78 Delta: Shot Myself in the Foot

Finally found the cause of the rough, slow idle. Turned out I didn't need
the carb cleaner or any of the other stuff I thought I did.  There were
actually 2 problems. 

The most relevant was that vacuum line to the fuel vapor reservoir. This
is hidden under the line that delivers the vapor back to the carb and
looked fine at first. Double-checking the lines revealed a break on the
underside right where the vacuum line goes to the fitting on the manifold.
Result: big vacuum leak. Removed about an inch of brittle hose and the
idle got lots better right away. 

I was then about to try the old trick of revving the engine and then
choking it off to try and remove what I still suspected was dirt in the
idle side of the carb. But what I noticed when preparing to try this was
that just by loosely placing my hand over the opening, the revs picked
right up. Even my dull brain realized this meant the engine was set way
too lean. This is mostly my own doing, unfortunately. Guilty, with an
explanation, your honor: 

When I tried adjusting the mixture setting last week I did what I did with
my Cutlass: set the mixture screws out 2 1/2 turns as a preliminary
adjustment, then fine-tune. At around 3 turns the adjustment made little
difference, so I leaned it out a quarter-turn and left it there. That's
the routine laid out in the '68 service manual. 

After discovering the lean condition I checked the '78 manual (when all
else fails... ) and, oh... it says that on the '78 the preliminary
adjustment is *4* turns out. No wonder the thing was so leaned out. Lucky
I didn't burn something. Starting from scratch, I was able to get the idle
exactly the way it should be according to the sticker: 575 RPM in drive,
and smoooooooth as can be! :) The exhaust smells a lot better too.  So
it's fixed. 

Goes to prove the old saying, when something goes wrong, check the last 
thing you fixed. In my case that's especially true it seems. I've had a 
coolant leak ever since I changed the antifreeze last month. First it was 
a couple of hose clamps that loosened up, no problem; then the heater 
core of course. Now I have a slow drip out of the bottom of the rad. I 
had assumed it was the drain petcock or it's fitting, because I really 
had to work on it to open it. But closer inspection reveals something 
interesting, though probably not cheap to fix: the coolant is actually 
dripping off the bottom shroud/support. And here's the interesting part: 
even with a warm engine, the drip is ice-cold. I don't understand that, 
but I have to guess there's a problem with the lower part of that tank on 
that side. To the rad shop later this week I fear; there goes the $20 
worth of antifreeze I just installed too. :(

OTOH, I put the sway bar on the rear suspension today. Wasn't overly 
tough, though a couple of the bolts that attach the brackets to the 
control arms are buried behind the shock mounts. And I doubt if I was 
able to quite get the 65 ft-lbs of torque on the attaching bolts while 
lying on the driveway under the car, but it seems fine. Driving it 
afterwards I was pleased. Not overly twitchy but definitely flatter and 
more responsive cornering. You can now hear the rear tires working when 
you corner hard. Good addition; recommended, took about an hour all told. 

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:43:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: AKing66@aol.com
Subject: Re: H*lp with '77 403?

In a message dated 97-10-19 18:35:01 EDT, you write:

<< This here 403 had a weird thingy on the harmonic balancer, just aft of the
 >pulleys. Loos like a sprocket w/ dull teeth. Like a Hall-effect sensor
ring.
 >Diameter about 1-2" greater than that of the balancer. On the driver's side
is
 >some sort of sensor, presumably the Hall effect unit. The burning question,
 >then:
 >
 >What IS this thing, what's it do? >>

should be a engine speed sensor....similiar to the  ones on some driveshafts


i could be wrong...please let me know

Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:55:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: Olds Questions

a 403 olds engine stock has tons of torque.  carbs aren't the problem with
them.  the problem is the heads.  too large of a cc.  try to find a set of
350 heads from before 1972.  this will raise compression enough to even think
about hp.  before you think about a carb i would think about an intake
manifold, if your's is stock.
here are the specs on a 77-79 403:
185hp@3600
320fl/lbs@2200
4.351x3.385  bore/stroke
8.0:1  compression ratio
what kind of 73 do you have?  i am in the process of putting a set of 350
heads on my 403.  i'll tell you what the results are when i finish.
mikey tvb@aol.com
73 cutlass w/403

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:38:17 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)

Robert Barry wrote:

 
> Me too. Just think, though, Dave, your friends saved you a big headache; if
> you didn't blow that radiator hose last night, you'd have blown it on your
> way into work this morning! Don't be too mad at them, though; they didn't
> cause the hose to leak.

Gee, not making it into work would be a shame...

I'm not exactly mad at them, but at the whole scenario.  Actually, I'm
glad that they got me to drive them, as opposed to riding with a drunk
driver.  Here's what I *am* mad at:  I'm mad at the D.D. who got
completely s**tfaced, I'm mad at the fact that I had to go into town at
1:45am, and I'm really mad at the b*tch who burnt my roof with her
cigarette!  

Naw, the hose letting go was inevitable, but I wasn't impressed that I
had to push the car a 1/4 mile by myself at 2:30am, on a rainy night...

Still, it's better than dressing up in a suit to say goodbye...

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:40:16 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: "Classy looking..."

Charley Buehner wrote:
> 
> Dustin Cross wrote: I saw an green '81 cutlass quite a while back that
> had pink wheels,

> Hmm.  Seem to recall that one all right.  Also seem to recall that when
> those pink rims were on there the car ~never~ had less than five girls
> in it...

I'm getting out the Tremclad as we speak...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:46:37 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)

Dustin Cross wrote:

> you did the right thing, I'd rather swap an engine than go to a funeral!!
> sounds like it was just bad timing...

~BAD~ timing?  The word "bad" doesn't quite cover it!  I can think of a
few that describe it better...

But, it's all good now:  everybody made it home safely, and I replaced
the upper hose this afternoon, as well as flush and fill the cooling
system.

It didn't really bother me that much, because I knew I was doing the
right thing...I was just a little bitter because I pulled my back
pushing the car, and it got stuck in a pothole...not to mention is was
in the ballpark of 2:30am...

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:58:58 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <KRUMWIEDE@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Olds Questions

> 
> 1) I have a 1970 Oldsmobile Rallye 350, I am looking for OAI hood pins (I am
> not sure of there exact name) because I have one on the left side and am
> missing one on the right hand side. I am worried about warping the hood if I
> drive too fast. Does anyone know where I could pick up a set of these OAI
> hood pins? 

Try Summit Racing Catalog, or look on there web site at 
http://www.summitracing.com and order a catalog.

> 
> 2) My Rallye 350 has a 403 in it. The guy I bought it from said that he
> wasn't sure where the original engine was. Should I look for a 1970 Rocket
> 350 to put in it or should I just leave the 403 in it and supe it up? Does
> anyone know where I could pick a a cheap, powerful Rocket 350 from around 1970?

The chances of finding a 1970 Rocket 350, that runs good, and 
powerfull, and then using the word Cheap......I dont think you will 
find one to cheap. I would supe up the 403, they make aftermarket 
parts for the 403 just as much as the 350, and besides that, "There 
is no replacement for Displacement..." :)


> 
> 3) What would be the cheapest but best hi-performance carb to put on the
> 403? Is the 403 a good engine to supe up? 

Carter for decent perfomance and price, Holly for REAL performance, 
but price is a bit higher. Holly makes a Replacement Quadrajet 
Peformance Carb, that would be the most cost effective and easy to 
put in, otherwise, If I remember correctly, Holly 4150 double pumpers 
range $250-325 range.


> 
> I am only 16 so I don't want to dish out TOO much cash. But I luv my
> Oldsmobiles.
> 
I understand what you saying, when I was your age, had lots of goals, 
just no flows.....:)


1977 Olds Cutlass 2dr hrd top 350 4bbl
1975 Olds 98 Regency 2 dr hrd top 455 ci 4bbl
1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 4bbl


- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:31:36 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re:  Disc brake conversions.

In the last six months, I've had the brakes on my 69 "professionally"
serviced in an attempt to correct pedal travel of about 3", severe
pulling to the right and too much sponginess. I've bled them twice
myself without results. I came to believe that manual drum brakes were
inherently bad and was all set to spring the bucks to convert to disc
brakes.
This weekend I thought I'd give it one last try and got ahold of a
drum brake setting gauge. It's basically an inside/outside caliper
that transfer the correct drum to shoe clearance. After setting my
brakes with the gauge, I have less than 1" pedal travel and the brakes
stop the car great! No more driving in fear of having to react quickly
and not making it.

About the only thing I want to do to the brakes now is add a power
booster.
BTW, I have never seen a mechanic use one of these gauges at any
repair shop I've been to.

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm
- -----Original Message-----
From: Don R Brower <bhouse@seanet.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, October 19, 1997 1:53 PM


>could sombody please stop me!!!!!!!!!! I know this topic has been hit
on
>before but (I have CRS) could someone please tell me what spindles
>(year and make) can I hang on the front of my 66 cutlass to give me
>disc brakes I know going fast is fun but stopping makes it so you can
>savor the flavor.
>                                              thanks
>                                         Don Brower
>                                         66 cutlass
>                                         66 F85 DLX

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Popps51@aol.com
Subject: Re: Any Olds guys in IL??

add me 
John Brocato
popps51@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Oct 97 03:45:31 UT
From: "anna hebrowska" <mixomixo@classic.msn.com>
Subject: windshield wipers blades for 1976 Delta Royale

I am looking for windshield wiper blades that are 18 inches long. So far,
no luck. Does anyone know of a place that has them, possibly in New
York area (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Nassau, Bronx..)?

Thanks,

Anna

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:48:15 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Olds Questions

Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician wrote:
> 
> The chances of finding a 1970 Rocket 350, that runs good, and
> powerfull, and then using the word Cheap......I dont think you will
> find one to cheap. I would supe up the 403, they make aftermarket
> parts for the 403 just as much as the 350, and besides that, "There
> is no replacement for Displacement..." :)

Uh, I found one! =) But, it wasn't running. =( It was kinda, like,
sitting in a junkyard. It was the whole engine, though! =) That is,
until I bought the heads. =( (unless you're me, then it's =) )The heads
were cheap! =) But, they'll need a lot of work before they're useable.
=(

Sorry about this worthless post! Just trying to insert some humor. ;-)
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:51:18 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)

Dave Ward wrote:
> 
> It didn't really bother me that much, because I knew I was doing the
> right thing...I was just a little bitter because I pulled my back
> pushing the car, and it got stuck in a pothole...not to mention is was
> in the ballpark of 2:30am...
> 
> S. Dave Ward

Man!!! Could this story be any worse??!!!

Sorry Dave, but as everybody else said, you did the ~RIGHT~ thing.
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:53:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Harrod <gharrod@alpha.wcoil.com>
Subject: Re: Guages

>  I want to put a set of gauges (oil pressure, temp, and tach) in my '69
>4-4-2.  Any suggestions, (pros and cons) of what's available on the market.
>Enlighten me please!
>
>  Glenn
>  '69 4-4-2

I was reading the faq's for this list last night and seen somewhere in them
something about putting gauges in and what color wire to look for when ya
do. Check it out.

Gary Harrod
gharrod@alpha.wcoil.com
N.W.Ohio, in the U.S.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:54:35 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Updated AGAIN!

Okay, if you haven't been there yet, you really oughta go to my page
now! You might have to wait a bit for it to load. It's worth the wait!

Matt Cremean

        >>>>>>>>>>>>1973 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
       http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:09:07 -0400
From: Aaron D Eoff <sheep542@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Slow Email

At 01:15 PM 10/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
>To All, 
>
>Has anyone else noticed that that it's been really slow the last day or so?
>Or is it just me?
>
>Jim Chermack
>


Ditto....

Aaron D Eoff
   ///////  ///////
       //       //
      //       //
     //       //
    //       //  'twas a goodyear

1977 Olds Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:13:41 -0600
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: "Good Samaritan"  (gone bad...)

Dave Ward wrote:

> 1:45am, and I'm really mad at the b*tch who burnt my roof with her
> cigarette!

NOW THAT IS DEFINATLY WORTH A TEMPER TANTRUM!!

I allow smoking in my cars   period     I'm sympathetic enough that when 
I have a smoker traveling with me (distances)  I will stop to let them 
out to smoke   I dont like the smell in my cars, but it was the burns in 
the carpet and door panels of one of my pickups that got smoking 
completely outlawed in my rigs    saves on having to clean the windows 
too!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:12:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?

>I sell new Oldsmobiles, Pon*iac,B*ick,GMC, and yes even Chrys**r and I've
>got to fid a way to justify spending time reading this list .......... I'll
>make ya a helluva deal.

bob barry wrote:

I'd love to be able to say yes to this question, but you've got to realize
what it is that you'd be offering me:

A new car that will cost me a lot of money in financing, insurance and
taxes, but which will go down in value for some time to come. I imagine the
entry price, even with a good deal, for a new Olds with a decent amount of
power and convenience, is going to be around $22,000 (I'm not counting the
new Toyota Cutlass, which wouldn't fit the bill).

In contrast, if I went with a high-end, excellent condition Olds musclecar
(say a regular 1970 442 convertible) for around $14,000, I'd have a
distinctive car that would retain its value, if not increase, and cost me
less in insurance and taxes. And though it would get poorer gas mileage,
$8,000 can buy a *lot* of gas.

Or, I could buy a 442 or Toronado in need of some work (say, for around
$4,000-$6,000), and drive it as I restored it.

Thanks for the offer, but you've got a hard case to make in order to get me
behind the wheel of a new anything, even a new Olds.>

                                                                            >

ya but wouldn't you like to tool around in a brand new aurora?????
i know i would!!!!!!

brent
1967 cutlass convertible

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 06:21:13 -0700
From: Steve Walker <smwalker@mail.telis.org>
Subject: 91+ custom cruiser

Hi All,
I am looking for information on 91+ olds custom cruiser station wagons. 
I am looking to customize one but have not been able to find many for
sale, did they make that many? how many in each years? any still around
that are for sale? or did they all get shiped to Japan.

Let me know anything you know
reply to smwalker@rocketmail.com     mailto:smwalker@rocketmail.com
as I am in the process of moving to michigan and am going to cancel the
telis account soon

Thanks!!!
- -- 
_______________________________________________
Steven Walker
Mailto:smwalker@telis.org
http://jwp.bc.ca/smwalker/index.htm
_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:30:04 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: New find, future hunt?

Charley Buehner wrote:

> noticed a shop on the side of the road,
> sitting next to (what appears to be) a 67 Ninety Eight 2 door hardtop.

Charley

Since I've got one of these, I'm always interested in hearing about other
ones.  Let us know what you find out.  What color did it seem to be?

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex in the box?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 13:42:27 GMT
From: Wolfhaven1@centuryinter.net
Subject: 69 442 W-30

For all who were interested, the car has been sold. I didn't think it would 
last long. Thanks.
  
 Andy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:49:48 -0700
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: wire colors - what's what?

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> Not on the list as far as I know, so reply directly...
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:   LlordXero@aol.com
> To:     oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: wire colors - what's what?!
> 
> I've got an 1985 CS and I've installed a JVC CD player.. In the dash I've
> only got the bare wires coming out, the previous owner had cut off the
> harnesses just to make it difficult... I'm having a bit of trouble figuring
> out which wires are hot, which are illumination, power antenna lead, etc...
> if anyone's got this info on the color configuration (since it appeared to
> have changed since 1985) I'd be much appreciative.. thank you much...
> 
> p.s. - I've already tried the owner's manual and chiltons..


ever use a digital multi-meter?...handy tool for this kinda work...the 
real concern in the harness is the wires that contain positive 
energy..or are possible negative grounds...but these are less 
threatening because sometimes the grouds serve as 1 side of the 
speaker leads in some applications....
the rest you play with the wires and  play hit and misss to see what 
reacts when you touch the speaker leads to the hot wires that are not 
hot....Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:10:09 -0600
From: "Travis Adams" <cashmore@imt.net>
Subject: molding removal

Okay everyone.  I just started stripping down my 65 442 post for the
winter.  Hoping it turns into a real uneventful body-off resto (yeah
right).  So does anyone know how to get the drip rail molding off?  I am at
a loss.  Also has anyone else had a problem with the driver's side rear
pillar cracking at the top?  I am talking serious stress fracture in the
metal.  There isn't even any rust in the area of the crack.  I have been
told that alot of the old BOP cars had this problem.  Can someone
elaborate?

Thanks,
Travis Adams
65 442 post

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:52:14 -0400
From: gbro@juno.com (Glenn B Brobeck)
Subject: 65 <4|4|2> LIST ONLY

The 1965 442 has been my only four wheeled love since 65.  Dominated the
strip straight out of the box and with a little engine work (well I
usually went overboard in those days. I made enough money on the streets
to finance what it needed.) so that tells you it ran pretty darn good on
the street too.Not that I have anything against the later 442's (other
than they weren't as quick) I'de just like to see a list of ONLY the
65's.Name:Address: "optional"State:Phone: "optional"     This is mine.   
                                        65 <4|4|2>                  
color:    Black   AA65 <4|4|2>                Interior:    White65
<4|4|2>Buckets or bench:    Buckets65 <4|4|2>   4 speed or auto:    4
Speed65 <4|4|2>     Coupe or Post:    Holiday CoupeIf you know of any out
there for sale or any parts, include them in your reply.Thanks,BRO 
GBRO@juno.com65 <4|4|2>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:57:02 -0400
From: cm_hawk@juno.com (Clay V Merenuk)
Subject: Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car

No, I am not a member.  What is it about?

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:37:46 -0700 "David, Terri and Rob"
<hoagie@emeraldis.com> writes:
>Clay V Merenuk wrote:
>> 
>> I have the Reliability Copy that came with my 69 442.
>> It has a list of the factory options, etc.  Under Special
>> instructions it reads, 1969 Zone Dealer Announcement
>> Car.  Does anybody know what this means?  I have
>> talked with the owner of the Dealership and he
>> remembers the car.  He said it was a showroom
>> floor car.  The only problem is that he got the car
>> when it had 2,000 miles on it and from the original
>> Dealership.  I am unable to get a hold of J. P, Letts
>> of Jim Letts Oldsmobile, Atlanta, Ga.  On the back of
>>  New Vehicle Warranty has the persons name and a
>> sales date of 11-17-69 and under that it reads Demo
>> 10-11-68.  Could it of been a showroom floor car?  Can
>> anyboby help me understand what all the info. is on the
>> Reliability Copy?
>> 
>> Clay
>> 69 442 convertible
>
>Hey Clay,
>	Haven't met too many people close to me...so I try to keep 
>tabs 
>on them...your about 2 hours from me...I'm in Greenwood, S.C. ......I 
>want to tcome to 1 of the Dixie Olds meets...are you memeber?...let me 
>
>know if you are and I'll see if I can make the next meet...Hoagie
>
>
>1970 Cutlass SX convertible
>1971 442 W--30 covertible
>1971 442 sports coupe
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:09:51 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: H*lp with '77 403?

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> OK, all youse experts. My service manual collection only goes to '76, and today
> I saw something that even baffled *me*. I gotta know what this is...
>
> Went to view a crusty '77 Toronado.

Just happen to have the '77 manuals (service and sales) handy...

> This here 403 had a weird thingy on the harmonic balancer, just aft of the
> pulleys. Loos like a sprocket w/ dull teeth. Like a Hall-effect sensor ring.
> Diameter about 1-2" greater than that of the balancer. On the driver's side is
> some sort of sensor, presumably the Hall effect unit. The burning question,
> then:
>
> What IS this thing, what's it do?

More on that in a minute...

> No Fuel Injection, plain old HEI ignition,

Not exactly...

> no electrics in the carb. So, what
> would a computer do? If not for a computer's info, then why do we need such
> accurate info as to crank position or speed?

This would be the "exclusive Electonic Spark Timing system" (so the sales book
says).

Shop manual says:

"The Toronado ignition system does not use a standard HEI distributor.  The
distributor does not have a vacuum advance unit, mechanical advance weights or pick
up coil and pole piece.  Although the cap, coil and module are the same, the rotor
is not and timing is not adjusted by turning the distributor.  This system uses a
crankshaft sensor, engine coolant sensor (you made mention of this in another
post), a controller and electrical harness.

"The engine coolant temperature sensor is different from the on-off switches used
in other cars.  It is part of the ignition system and resistance in the sensor
changes with changes in coolant temperature.  (Resistance lowers when temperatire
rises.)

"The controller assembly is an electronic unit, mounted under the glove box, that
receives signals from the crankshaft sensor (crankshaft position and RPM), engine
coolant temperature sensor, engine vacuum and atmospheric pressure.  The controller
assembly decides the most efficient advance based on the input signals and sends
the signal to the distributor module to fire the spark plugs.

"The electrical harness connecting these units together and the the car harness
contains two vacuum tubes.  They both connect to the controller assembly; the white
one is connected to the manifold vacuum and the black one (atmospheric pressure) is
not connected.  The open end of the black one is in the engine compartment so that
it will not be open to inside car pressure.

"There are two different controller assemblies.  The controller assembly used on
California cars have different advance specifications.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex in the box?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:13:24 -0400
From: cm_hawk@juno.com (Clay V Merenuk)
Subject: Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car

It is a Crismon with whit hood strips.  Red interior, white top, power
disc
brakes, tilt wheel, power driver seat, turbo 400, etc.  Oh and not for
sale.
I am already having to sale my other 69 442 convertible(4th child on the
way and the wife finally talked me into selling it).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:30:12 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 69 442 Zone Dealer Announcement Car

Clay V Merenuk wrote:

> I have the Reliability Copy that came with my 69 442.

Don't know what that is.  Build sheet?  Window sticker?

> It has a list of the factory options, etc.  Under Special
> instructions it reads, 1969 Zone Dealer Announcement
> Car.  Does anybody know what this means?

Could be a number of things.

Olds (and other divisions) used to have New Car Announcement shows for
dealers in their different zones.  I was at one in '87 for the new '88
models.  The big thing then was the Cutlass Supreme FWD.  They had cars
on the stage as part of the stage show, then had cars placed all around
the reception hall for the social mixer held after the show.  These
shows got more upscale with the division that was holding it, from what
I understand, and Oldsmobile's was nothing to sneeze at.  I think '87
was the last one they had, that's when they started to run into
financial troubles.  Could be that your car was ordered for the
announcement show for one of the zones, after which it would have gone
to a dealer somewhere, or became a zone reps car.

Another possibility is that it was ordered by a zone rep as his demo for
the time around new car announcement.  These cars need to be shipped to
a dealer, either near the zone office or near the reps residence to be
prepped and "delivered".  Once out of demo service they are usually
auctioned to an Olds dealer, but may be offered privately directly to a
reps favorite dealer.

A third possibility is that this is a car that the dealer had to pick up
at the zone.  This doens't happen anymore, but years ago dealers had to
go to the warehouse to pick up their cars depending on the
circumstances.  I've worked with people who remember going to Philly to
the warehouse to pick up new cars.  Maybe this was an announcement car
that had to be picked up at the zone warehouse.

> I have
> talked with the owner of the Dealership and he
> remembers the car.  He said it was a showroom
> floor car.

That's entirely possible.

>  The only problem is that he got the car
> when it had 2,000 miles on it and from the original
> Dealership.

Could have been a car involved in a dealer trade or something.  We
sometimes take cars with as much as 5 or 6 thousand miles, but usually
only if we have a buyer for it.

>  I am unable to get a hold of J. P, Letts
> of Jim Letts Oldsmobile, Atlanta, Ga.  On the back of
>  New Vehicle Warranty has the persons name and a
> sales date of 11-17-69 and under that it reads Demo
> 10-11-68.

New car announcement date for the '69s was 9-12-68.

> Could it of been a showroom floor car?

Sure.

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex in the box?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:44:17 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Anybody want to buy a new Olds?

Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> I went the other day to the dealer where I get my parts and looked at a
> couple of new Olds in the lot. The Intrigue was nice enough, but with tax
> was about $32K Canadian. Seems pricey.

Pardon me while I pick my jaw up off the floor...

> Why we can't have
> color in our interiors anymore is one of my pet peeves. A long way from
> the days of "New-Matic" ride and all the other olds-speak of years past.

I guess now would not be a good time to ask you what your views are on New Car
Announcement compared to what it used to be like?

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex in the box?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:14:30 -0400
From: Nick Lamboy <nlamboy@global2000.net>
Subject: Re: 83 Hurst - Wont Start

Nick Lamboy wrote:
> 
> Subject: 83 Hurst - Wont Start
> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:36:44 -0400
> From: Nick Lamboy <nlamboy@global2000.net>
> Organization: NL Industries
> To: oldsmobile@chebutco.ns.ca
> 
> Well I have been reading and watching for the past year or so and I
> unfortunatelly now have a problem of my own.
> 
> The other day I drove my 83 H/O to work for probably the last time of
> the season (already frost in upstate NY). I ran great in the cool
> morning air but, that was then.
> 
> When I went to go home I couldnt get her to fire. Heres the symptons on
> what I checked.
> 
> Good Gas flow
> Good battery
> Ohmed out the coil looked good according to my Hanes book #'s
> Checked spark on plug wire - seemed ok
> Dirstributor rotation looked ok
> Didtributor not loose
> 
> Still will not evan fire. It also sounds funny so after a long Sunday
> afternoon I towed it home tonight and returned it to its cozy garage
> space. The engine is around 90,000 miles but has run real strong all
> summer. I am thinking of pulling the spark plugs and valve cover to
> check operation( cam problem, timimg chain or worse). I dont think that
> I could have all the spark plugs fouled especially after sitting a
> couple days. It also seems to flood out after several cranks.
>         Please any ideas or thoughts are greatly apprecited since I have to get
> her going by March. That seems like a long time away but hope to take
> care of this myself instead of hauler off to the garage for them to
> screw her up.


After I have looked some more. Can Any of you people tell me what kind
of sympton I would get if I had lost my timing chain. It seems to be
blowing air out of the carb not sucking and I get practiclly no reading
when I have checked the compression on #1 & #3 cylinders. Should I pull
the valve cover (lost of fun with all the stuff I have to remove first)?

Help
Nick
83 Hurst 307

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #913
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