
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, November 16 1997      Volume 01 : Number 957



Re: Police Chases
Re: Parts needed
I'm back!
UNBOUNCE: Convertible Top Switch Connections
UNBOUNCE: Front Headlight Supports
Re: I'm back!
Re: Parts needed
Snow?  What snow?
1966 Olds Cutlass 2dr.htp  FS
Re: 68 front bumper
Re: Junk yard Find
Re: '73-'77 rear suspensions
Re: Parts Search 70 442
Re: UNBOUNCE: Convertible Top Switch Connections
Re: UNBOUNCE: Locker Rear Ends
Underhood Electrical Devices (was Convert Top Sw Conn)
Washer Bottle
Re: 68 front bumper
Re: Greetings
Please help me find a car
Re: Cooling topics
Re: Please help me find a car
82 Olds Calais
Re: 66 olds tripower 4SALE
Re: Hey Stereo Buffs....
Re: Snow?  What snow?
Re: '73-'77 rear suspensions
70cutlass thermostat?
Re: Washer Bottle
Re: 70cutlass thermostat?
Re: Snow?  What snow?
Re: Carb question
Re: Carb question
307 Vin Y Emissions Failure
Re: Sky Rocket
Re: Retro fitting OEM A/C
ss1's for sale
Tripower manifold 57-1145
Book or service manual?
Off the frame restoration
Re: defroster
Re: Hey Stereo Buffs....
Re: Retro fitting OEM A/C
Starter Problems...
Re: Retro fitting OEM A/C
Re: 57 OLDS J/2
Re: Starter Problems...
Re: 425 engines

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 03:23:38 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: Police Chases

> Anybody else see it last night?

        I didn't see it, and my friend who recorded the first 2 missed it
too...it'll be on again.  The first two rocked, I don't wanna miss this one
altogether!!
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 06:14:55 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <KRUMWIEDE@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Parts needed

Hey, there was an artilce in car craft or hot rod, or Hot Rodder, one 
of those anyway, about repairing tic-toc-tac's, I will see if I can 
find it and see if has any replacement parts or remanufacturable 
parts.



> Hi All,
>     I have a tic-toc-tac out of a 1970 Cutlass and the problem with the
> tac is that at one time it apparently had been removed, and the person
> who removed it looks like they forced it out without unscrewing the 3
> screws to get it out of the dash. The tac and clock ect are in excellent
> shape but the outer casing looks pretty bad around the edges where it
> holds the glass in. I am interested in finding out if anyone knows or
> would have an outer casing I could buy. I could put the tac back in the
> dash the way it is and you would probably never see it but it would be a
> lot nicer if I could find a whole new casing. Do you think the places
> that rebuild tic-toc-tac's would have them? Any help would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Tom Williams
> 1970 W31
> 
- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:54:19 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: I'm back!

Well, for anyone who has missed me, (ha ha!) I'm now finished moving to
Miami.  I subscribed again to the list, now I'm just waiting to be
officially reinstated.

More Oldsmobiling chatter!!!!  I've missed it dearly.  Gotta get my fix.

Mike Rothe
Miami, FL
69 H/O
71 442
85 442

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 09:06:26 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Convertible Top Switch Connections

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Lloyd Ferguson <cutlass69@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Convertible top switch connections
Cc:	trudolph@frii.com

>At 08:42 PM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>This wire goes though the grommet in the dash and connects to the circuit
>>breaker on the fire wall below the master cylinder.
>>
>>This is fed by a wire from the horn relay.
>
>Ok.. guess I gotta find me one of these.  Does anyone have a good
>description of one?  It may be in one of my boxes of parts, half of which I
>can't identify.  If I don't have one, does anyone on the list happen to
>have a spare?  If not, anyone know a good place to find these?  Thanks as
>usual.
>
>Tim Rudolph
>trudolph@frii.com
>'69 442 Convertible

It is a liitle box about 1/2 x 1/2 x 2" long with two studs on the top for
the wires and a couple of flanges to screw it to the firewall on the
bottom.  There is a rubber boot that goes over it but apparently it often
is missing (mine luckily has it).

According to the wiring manual it is the same one used for cars with either
Power Windows or Power Seats so you may be able to find one at the wrecker.

I could have sworn that I saw both the relay and cover in one of my
catalogs but for the life of me I can't find them now.


Lloyd Ferguson
cutlass69@usa.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 09:07:09 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Front Headlight Supports

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Lloyd Ferguson <cutlass69@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Front Headlight supports
Return-Path: <oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>

If it is like a '69, they are held in from the behind with 4 or 6 screws.
You have to remove the headlight housings (also screwed in from behind)
first.

Some thing to watch if you plan to disassemble the buckets from the
backing.  The actual supports (the base piece) can be mounted on either
side and there is stamping in the metal to indicate which side is up
depending on which side of the car you mount it.  The four headlight
buckets however are all different.  I discovered after a lot of screwing
around that they are stamped ABC&D on the upper outside flange.  A&B go on
the drivers side, C&D on the passengers side.  I would suggest you write
down which of the buckets in each pair is high beam and which is low beam
because it is not what you expect particularly on the passenger side.

>Hi all,
>
>On 68 442's front head light supports, the part that holds the lamp
>bucket in place on the radiator core support, can these be swapped
>out with new ones.  I haven't tried yet to pull them off.  I hope
>they are not affixed to the core support permanently.
>
>Chris Sparks


Lloyd Ferguson
cutlass69@usa.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 09:18:46 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: I'm back!

On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Mike Rothe wrote:

> Well, for anyone who has missed me, (ha ha!) I'm now finished moving to
> Miami.  I subscribed again to the list, now I'm just waiting to be
> officially reinstated.

Hi Mike and welcome back! Miami, huh? We just had an unexpected 6" of 
snow here last night. It isn't supposed to do that here this time of 
year. At least the Delta 88 is big enough that it covers most of the 
driveway so shovelling there is at a minimum. I hate you... ;-)

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:03:31 -0600
From: Tom Williams <tjwilli@Megavision.com>
Subject: Re: Parts needed

Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician wrote:
> 
> Hey, there was an artilce in car craft or hot rod, or Hot Rodder, one
> of those anyway, about repairing tic-toc-tac's, I will see if I can
> find it and see if has any replacement parts or remanufacturable
> parts.
> 
> >Mike,
    Thanks for the response on the tic-toc-tac. I was shocked when I
removed the tac from the car and noticed how at one time they must have
tried to force the thing out and chewed up the outer edges of the metal
casing. I have removed the glass because it was no longer being held in
very tight because of the way the previous owner mangled the edges where
the glass is held in. The face and innards of the tac are in excellent
shape so this is why I am trying to find just a casing.

Thanks,
Tom Williams

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 09:18:50 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Snow?  What snow?

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
> At least the Delta 88 is big enough that it covers most of the
> driveway so shovelling there is at a minimum. I hate you... ;-)

I saw the snow scenes on the news last night.  YUK!!!  Well, I'm not
complaining.  Except the fact that you are near your Oldsmobiles.  I had
to leave mine in SC for a while.  That is like going cold turkey. At
least I can dream about them while I'm sunning myself...hee hee.  It's
gonna be cooler here today though, only a high expected of 81 F.  (Rub,
rub Greg!) ;^)

To keep this theme Olds related, for anyone who does 69 H/O's, or at
least likes the color Firefrost gold, I talked with DuPont last week and
they were in the final throes of getting the new Base/Clear formulations
figured out.  Should be anytime now.  Just because I'm away from my cars
doesn't mean I'm gonna stop doing the right thing.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 06:46:26 -0800
From: "Mike Aldana" <maldana@digitalwave.net>
Subject: 1966 Olds Cutlass 2dr.htp  FS

A good car to restore. Runs and drives, but needs help.  early olds 350
motor, 2 speed trans. ps,pb,a/c minus hoses, and compressor. Radio plays,
console(missing door) buckets (black). Upholstery is ok except for drivers
seat which is torn, and could be repaired. Rest of seats are fine. Door
panels, need carpet at bottom, and some minor repairs. They are complete
with trim. Tinted glass, good windshield, no rust around back window. Car
sports original gold paint, that is quickly fading as i write this. Black
vinyl top that is also slowly shrinking. No heavy rust except for a silver
dollar size bubble at bottom of rh fender. Also a small area in trunk with
some pinholes. Nothing major in way of rust. Southern California car since
new. Not currently registered, but comes with signed off pink slip. Overall
the car is in a #4 condition, according to the Old Cars Price guidelines.
Overall, the car needs a restoration, paint, some minor dings on otherwise
undamaged quarter panels, bumper replating etc.
Due to other interests i  have decided to sell the car, and not restore it
myself. The price is $1400.00 firm.
sincerely   Mike      maldana@digitalwave.net


Mike Aldana
417 Encinas ave.
Calexico Ca. 92231

760-357-0713     early morning best

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 08:59:16 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: 68 front bumper

I have been away awhile.  I surely am interested & sent a message some
time ago about this.  Can we get together on the deal again?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

W30442CS@aol.com wrote:

> bill, hi its been awhile since we talked but i was wondering if you
> were
> still interested in my 68 cutlass front bumper.      steven.
>  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:08:43 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Junk yard Find

Thanks for checking Bob, I really appreciate it.

Gary Andresen
"55 Olds that is almost complete (Running 455 - And boy does it haul)
======================

Robert Schinkel wrote:
> 
> Sorry Gary I asked if he had any of your cars kicking around but to no luck
> 
> Sorry I couldn't help
> 
> Bob

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:36:26 -0500 (EST)
From: DrkSole@aol.com
Subject: Re: '73-'77 rear suspensions

I'm not sure about not stock control arms and such, but H-O racing and herb
adams make parts that will fit.  On my 73 I've got the PST polygraphite
rebuild kit put on, (new bushing, steering linkage, and ball joints) H-O
springs, which are a bit stiffer than stock heavy duty springs, Herb Adams
adjustable 3-way adjustable shocks, and herb adams sway bars, 1.3" in the
front, 1.5" in the rear.  I still need to get some better tires than the
205/70R14 Radial T/A's I'm running, but it corner extremly well, and doesn't
bottom out like it used to.  A note on the sway bars though, the front one is
mounted with spherical rod ends and is a bit more difficult to install and
adjust than the stock set-up.  PST sells a 1 1/8" front sway bar with the
stock ends, and I would probably go that way if I was going to do another
car. 
H-O Racing is now defunct, but their inventory is being handled by    Malibu
Performance, (818)-222-6725

DrkSole
73 Cutlass Supreme
67 Delta 88 Custom

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:58:45 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parts Search 70 442

have 70 frt. bumper, do you still need one?  please reply steven.
 w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:04:23 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Convertible Top Switch Connections

trudolph@frii.com
>
>>At 08:42 PM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>This wire goes though the grommet in the dash and connects to the
circuit
>>>breaker on the fire wall below the master cylinder.
>>>
>>>This is fed by a wire from the horn relay.


Tim,

If it is the horn relay you are looking for, it is listed on page 71
of Year One's catalog for $19.00. The description that Lloyd Ferguson
gave you is accurate; about 1/2"x1/2"x2". It is held on by two screws.
On my 69 conv., it is mounted near the washer bottle on the inside of
the fender, not on the firewall. I don't know if this is the original
location, but it sure lokks like it is based on the openings in the
wiring harness.

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:27:32 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Locker Rear Ends

DrkSole@aol.comwrote:
> 
> Hi, I was wondering if anyone on the list has any experience with locker
> style rear-ends.  I just got a new PowerTrax unit today, ordered after
> getting a 'no' from the Summit tech guy as to wether or not there would be
> problems using it in the snow, and come to find out, the instructions give
> numerous warnings about corniner in slippery/unstabe conditions with the
> unit.  It is different than a posi as it physically locks the axles together,
> except on the turns.  I'm not sure if I should install it as I don't need to
> car any harder to drive in the winter than it already is.. so, should I go
> with the locker, or send it back and get a posi instead?  thanks for your
> help.. sorry this is so long, I tend to babble at times..
> thanks.
> 
> DrkSole
> 73 Cutlass Supreme
> 67 Delta 88 Custom

Yeah I was wondering about this, too. Does this mean that it isn't safe
to do fish-tails when the pavement is wet, or whip donuts or anything? I
certainly want to have a LITTLE fun with my car and not worry about my
rear going POINK! PING! CRUNCH! KLANG! GRIND! I guess AuburnGear is the
way to go, eh?

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft© Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:18:08 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <cutlass69@usa.net>
Subject: Underhood Electrical Devices (was Convert Top Sw Conn)

>trudolph@frii.com
>>
>>>At 08:42 PM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>This wire goes though the grommet in the dash and connects to the
>circuit
>>>>breaker on the fire wall below the master cylinder.
>>>>
>>>>This is fed by a wire from the horn relay.
>
>
>Tim,
>
>If it is the horn relay you are looking for, it is listed on page 71
>of Year One's catalog for $19.00. The description that Lloyd Ferguson
>gave you is accurate; about 1/2"x1/2"x2". It is held on by two screws.
>On my 69 conv., it is mounted near the washer bottle on the inside of
>the fender, not on the firewall. I don't know if this is the original
>location, but it sure lokks like it is based on the openings in the
>wiring harness.
>
>Mick Gillespie
>69 Cutlass S convertible
>mgillespie@sprynet.com
>http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

No, no, no

There are two different devices:

1) The horn relay mounted on the fender with one screw and a tab which goes
into the other hole to stop the whole assembly from turning.  This thing is
the horn relay, the key buzzer and the junction point for all the 12 volt
distribution in the car except the big lead that goes to the starter.  It
is fed by the smaller wire +ve battery cable. It should (but sometimes
doesn't) have a little round cap that looks something like the shipping
protector on a side-post battery.

There are two sets of mounting holes on the fender, mine was mounted in the
forward set (right by the washer bottle) when I got the car.  After looking
at a few cars at various meets, I moved to the rear holes (after fixing the
hole which was stripped).  I think if that some cars with AC have another
relay mounted in the other holes.  Does anyone know for sure??


2) The circuit breaker which is mounted on the firewall under the brake
master cylinder.  It gets its feed via a fair sized wire from the horn
relay/junction point (refered to as the "power take off" in the wiring
diagram) and in my convertible feeds the power top via the or/blk wire and
the convertible top switch (which is where this thread started).  It has a
cover which appears to wrap all the way around it.

According to the assembly manual is the car has power windows and/or power
seats additional or/blk wires are connected to the circuit breaker output
to feed them.


Lloyd Ferguson
cutlass69@usa.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:27:23 -0600
From: JR <joertexas@earthlink.net>
Subject: Washer Bottle

How does the washer bottle mount on a 72 Cutlass? There are three holes
in the fender that line up with the replacement bottle, but I don't have
the hardware.

JR
72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:47:46 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 68 front bumper

sure, ready to deal,  i believe you sent your address once so i could check
on shipping cost. could you send it again?  please reply steven.
 w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:47:47 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Greetings

you dont happen to have a w -31, or w-30 alluminum intake do you?,  what
about some rallye pac guages 70-72?    please reply steven.
  w30442cs@aol.com                             ps. what is dixie  olds club
 and who can join?   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:00:10 -0500
From: WALKERJIM@webtv.net (Jim Walker)
Subject: Please help me find a car

- --WebTV-Mail-1703827615-1549
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm looking to buy an Olds convertible in the Central Florida area. I am
serious and am requesting the group's assistance if anyone can help me.
Thanks very much. 

- --WebTV-Mail-1703827615-1549
Content-Description: signature
Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

<html> <p align=center>Visit my <a href="http://members.tripod.com/~walkerjim/index.html">homepage</a>! </html>
<html><bgsoundsec="http://members.tripod.com/~webtv18/birdland.mid"></html><html><center><imgsrc="http://members.tripod.com/~davejansen/lavalamp.gif"></center></html>












- --WebTV-Mail-1703827615-1549--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 97 11:11:46 PST8
From: hpnaepflin@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: Re: Cooling topics

>I think we came to agree that the faster the coolant moves through the
>block, but the slower it moves through the radiator, and the faster the air
                ^^^^^^  NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
>passes through the radiator, the cooler the engine will be.

OK.  I've been reading this thread on and off since the list started (1 1/2
years or so).  

Sorry for dragging the thread out even further but I can no longer resist
chiming in.  There's been a whole lot of "IMHO", "2 cents worth", anecdote,
conjecture, and "common sense" on this topic.

I'm a mechanical engineer (structural analysis) and work with a group of
mechanical engineers who are specialists in thermal analysis.  These guys(and
gals) even wrote some under hood thermal system analysis software for GM a
couple of years ago.  (Hughes Aircraft is a subsidiary of GM)  When I ran some
of the "slow down the flow theories" by them they got a good chuckle.  

In a nutshell, slowing down either the flow of water (in the block OR radiator)
or the flow of air (thru the radiator) will NOT improve heat transfer.  I'll try
and explain why.

The key concept is that the heat transfer across an interface is proportional to 
the DIFFERNCE IN TEMPERATURE between the two mediums (media?), not the velocity. 
Heat always flows from hot to cold.   

If the radiator airflow slows or stops, the air around the fins will heat up
until it approaches the temperature of the fins and heat transfer will slow
(bad).

If the radiator waterflow slows, the water will cool until it approaches the
temperature of the tubes and heat transfer will slow(bad). 

If the  block water flow slows, the water will rise in temperature until it
approaches the temperature of the block and heat transfer will slow(bad).  

You want the radiator water at the highest possible temperature (in order to
maximize heat rejection to the air)  and the engine block water to be as cool as
possible to maximize heat rejection from the block into the water.   The way to
achieve this is to pump hot block water into the radiator as fast as possible.  

The best you could do would be to have the block and radiator water temperatures
to be at the same temperature but to do so you would have to pump the water
through infinitely fast.  Now there are diminishing returns from pumping faster
and this is considered in the sizing of the radiator and water pump by the
designers, but in no case will increasing the flow rate thru the radiator cause
reduced cooling capability.

At extremely high flow velocities, far above what a waterpump could generate
with or without a thermostat in place, turbulence effects could affect the heat
transfer as well but that is outside our practical interest. 

Removing your thermostat will decrease your engine temps a little (if the
thermostat was good anyway) or alot (if it stuck closed as mine did last year)
but it will NEVER increase your engine temperature.  If you're engine
temperature increases it's not because you removed the thermostat.

BTW,  my thermostat that broke was a Stant and the guy at the parts counter said
they were junk FWIW.

Hans

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:20:36 -0700
From: Tim Rudolph <trudolph@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Please help me find a car

At 02:00 PM 11/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm looking to buy an Olds convertible in the Central Florida area. I am
>serious and am requesting the group's assistance if anyone can help me.
>Thanks very much. 

Might wanna check in http://www.traderonline.com/   I checked and they list
a few convertibles in Florida.  I found my car in www.classifieds2000.com
but they don't show any convertibles in florida right now..

Tim Rudolph
trudolph@frii.com
'69 442 Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:39:21 +0000
From: "Joe Gerschutz" <gerschjt@flyernet.udayton.edu>
Subject: 82 Olds Calais

What does everyone think about an 82 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais?  Its 
a 2 door, with the 231 V6, and has some body rust.  The interior is 
in bad shape and some lamps are broken on the outside.  I can 
probably get the car for free or next to nothing, but is it a good 
idea to try to fix it up?  Also, does anyone know of any junkyards 
with some olds in them in NW Ohio?  I figure if I can get the car 
real cheap then thats all the more money I can put into it.  Also, 
any sugestions for an engine upgrade that works well in this car?  
Thanks.

Joe
gerschjt@flyernet.udayton.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:48:31 -0500 (EST)
From: TURBO38@aol.com
Subject: Re: 66 olds tripower 4SALE

i know someone who will be very interested however, he's not online. can you
please give me a daytime phone number. 

thanks in advance,
will

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:38:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Patrick Rose <prose@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Hey Stereo Buffs....

	Thank you for being so informative, Greg. I wouldn't have guessed
to wire the speakers that way. I had just figured I got dropped off the
list since our server was down for 12 hours. I guess they managed to keep
our mailboxes online that time. I'm going to put the front speaker in
today, and I'm really hoping I can get the plastic air ducts to fit back
in because the new speaker is much larger than the old one. I'll probably
have to get creative with it. I was wondering what Ohm speakers you used
in the back. I understand that the stereo is fragile and I don't want to
mess it up. I think I have a pair of 8ohm speakers in Dallas I could grab
over Christmas. That would put all three speakers at 8ohms. Would that be
too much for the stereo? Thanks for your help, I'm looking forward to
rockin' in STEREO soon (hopefully I'll have brakes by then so I can
actually DRIVE the car, too :)  ).

Pat
'68 Cutlass



> As for the speakers, it sounds like you are using later-model ones. The 
> originals only had a single (positive) connector, and got their ground 
> via the speaker frame mounting to the body. But I replaced my rear with a 
> later one that sounds like the kind you have. I just attached a ground 
> lead to a screw I installed at the back of the trunk and connected that 
> to the negative terminal of the speaker. The speaker signal wire is just 
> connected to the positive terminal lug on the speaker with a few twists 
> and turns of the wire. I didn't use the connector that the speaker was 
> supposed to have because I didn't have it, but you could get one from a 
> junkyard or whatever and splice your own connections.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:27:47 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Snow?  What snow?

Mike Rothe wrote:

> I saw the snow scenes on the news last night.  YUK!!!  Well, I'm not
> complaining.  Except the fact that you are near your Oldsmobiles.  I had
> to leave mine in SC for a while.  That is like going cold turkey. At
> least I can dream about them while I'm sunning myself...hee hee.  It's
> gonna be cooler here today though, only a high expected of 81 F.  (Rub,
> rub Greg!) ;^)

Southern California, or South Carolina?
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:41:46 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: '73-'77 rear suspensions

> adams make parts that will fit.  On my 73 I've got the PST polygraphite
> rebuild kit put on, (new bushing, steering linkage, and ball joints) H-O
> springs, which are a bit stiffer than stock heavy duty springs, Herb Adams
> adjustable 3-way adjustable shocks, and herb adams sway bars, 1.3" in the
> front, 1.5" in the rear.  I still need to get some better tires than the

        How are the 3-way adjustable shocks different than regular shocks?  How
do they improve the ride/performance?        Is there much body roll during
fast/hard cornering?  My '76 got brand new 455 springs before it was stored for
the year and a half before I got it, and it's still sitting nice now and it's
real stiff.  However all the components in the front are orig. except the
centerlink which I replaced for the safety this past spring (threw a Moog on
it).  I was thinking about going with the kit from PST.

> 205/70R14 Radial T/A's I'm running, but it corner extremly well, and doesn't

        You're running 14s?  Aren't they kinda small on the '73??  They came with
15s stock, didn't they??  I know the '76 A-bodies did.  I'm actually thinking
about going to 16s or 17s.

> bottom out like it used to.  A note on the sway bars though, the front one is
> mounted with spherical rod ends and is a bit more difficult to install and
> adjust than the stock set-up.  PST sells a 1 1/8" front sway bar with the
> stock ends, and I would probably go that way if I was going to do another
> car.

        I noticed that PST also has a 1¼" bar for the front.  I would most likely
go with that one.  Where, though, did you get the 1.5" bar for the rear???  PST's
largest is the 1".  I would like to go bigger because I think I've already got
the 1" on there fromt the factory.        One other thing....I know that
sometimes the actual steering box (that the pitman arm attaches to) can get play
in it.  How much would a new or even high-performance one cost (if there is such
a thing) and where would I get one?  Or how would I go about adjusting this -
because right now I can drive down the road (it's worse in my Monte than the
Cutlass, but still very noticable in the Cutlass) and you can jerk the wheel back
and forth with little effect.  I would just like to make it a bit more "direct"
if possible.
        Thanx so much, DrkSole, for the info and advice.
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:50:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Bittybird@aol.com
Subject: 70cutlass thermostat?

Hello all.
I have a 1970 Cutlass Convertible with a 1967 425 in it. (no a/c)
My problem is that it takes well over 30 minutes for the heater 
to start heating.
I don't no if it has a 160,180,or 195 thermostat in it now.
Should I replace with the same degree thermostat or a 
different degree?
If a different one, will it affect the performance of the car?


THANKS!!!
James
1970 Cutlass
1980 Cadillac

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:09:55 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Washer Bottle

JR wrote:
> 
> How does the washer bottle mount on a 72 Cutlass? 

JR, unfortunately I don't have any reference material unpacked yet to
tell you the exact size of the screw, but those three holes that line up
are for coarse thread sheet metal screws that mount from the tire side
of the fenderwell.  They have a 3/8" bolt head on them, and they are
about 1" long.  They screw right into the tab holes on the washer
bottle.  I don't know the correct size # off hand though.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 97 16:16:00 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: 70cutlass thermostat?

At 03:50 PM 11/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello all.
>I have a 1970 Cutlass Convertible with a 1967 425 in it. (no a/c)
>My problem is that it takes well over 30 minutes for the heater 
>to start heating.
>I don't no if it has a 160,180,or 195 thermostat in it now.
>Should I replace with the same degree thermostat or a 
>different degree?
>If a different one, will it affect the performance of the car?
>
>
>THANKS!!!
>James
>1970 Cutlass
>1980 Cadillac
>


         I'd question the flow rate through the heater core before putting a
different thermostat in it.  There is the possibility that it's restricted
by deposits.  Also make sure that the coolant is at the proper level.  The
heater core is at the highest point of the system.

    Glenn
    '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:10:50 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Snow?  What snow?

Jerry Christopher wrote:
> 
> Mike Rothe wrote:
> 
> > I saw the snow scenes on the news last night.  YUK!!!  Well, I'm not
> > complaining.  Except the fact that you are near your Oldsmobiles.  I had
> > to leave mine in SC for a while. 
> 
> Southern California, or South Carolina?

South Carolina
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 18:02:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Boaz32@aol.com
Subject: Re: Carb question

Thank you for the info...I let you know if I ever find out what A.I.R. really
is

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 18:07:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Boaz32@aol.com
Subject: Re: Carb question

Thank you Jim.  Is this carb of "less" value when it comes to performance.  I
recently purchased a 1970 Olds 455 and the carb I have is from a 1967 chevy
whatever...is this carb just as good as any other stock Q-Jet?  I don't know
why the OEM carb was removed.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 18:24:13 -0500
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: 307 Vin Y Emissions Failure

I just received my November 1997 issue of Motor Magazine and in it is a
great article about how mechanics are having problems with Oldsmobile 307
V8 Vin Y engines failing Colorado and California emissions test during the
2500 RPM segment.  

Basically, what happens is the ECM algorithm on the 307 Vin Y is set up so
that 2500 RPM with high vacuum, low TPS, and no vehicle motion may cause
the ECM to go into open loop and divert air from the air pump to the air
cleaner.  This is done to protect the catalytic converter from damage since
it is not a valid driving condition but it causes these vehicles to be
tagged as "gross" polluters.

The work around is to have the ECM in 10K diagnostic mode which forces
closed loop operation.  This is done by have a scan tool hooked up or by
shorting pins A&B on the ALDL.  The problem with this is that California
does not allow scan tools to be connected during emissions testing.  The
other two work arounds are as follows:
1) Drive the car - once the ECM "sees" three throttle positions above 1.25
volts and the ECM is in closed loop - it will stay in closed loop until key
turned off or O2 sensor cools down, 2) Goose throttle hard 3 times and then
rev to 2500 RPM until closed loop operation is achieved.

GM believes that the vehicle will only fail if it is in open loop AND the
air is being diverted to the air cleaner.  

This explains why I have had some unique problems trying to attain or
maintain closed loop while tuning my E4ME Quadrajet.

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8 
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:35:20 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Rocket

Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:
> 
> At 11:02 PM 11/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Bob
> 
>         What you have there is an aircleaner from a mid sixties 425. They
> were in the Sky Rockets were in big cars.

You know, this SkyRocket thing came up just a little while ago.  I was
too lazy at the time to put any research into it and just left it go. 
But now it feel the need to do a little research and see what I come up
with.  Off to the literature collection...

OK.  Mid 60's 425 were known as Super Rockets.  The SkyRocket was a 394
available from 1961 thru 1963 and was standard on Ninety Eights and
Super 88s.  It was an option on Dynamic 88s.  '64s were known as plain
Rockets, which seems strange.

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Why do they sterilize the needles for lethal injections?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:48:43 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Retro fitting OEM A/C

Paul,

My '68 442 convertible is in about the same position.  I have all the
parts also, but haven't installed many of them.  I may be into the dash
this winter.

That cowl is a bugagoo that isn't too hard to lick.  I have seen a car
which had the opening put aright by using an old AC cowl & cutting it to
fit the large opening not needed by the AC.  He just flanged the area
that he needed; pop rivetted the pieces in; & then puttied to finish.
It looks very good & hasn't had any problems in the last 3 years.  I
also saw a car that had the cowl pieces welded in.  It, of course,
worked very well.  The engine must be removed as far as I can tell.
We'll just see how that works out for me.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

PS.  Let me know about the pieces from the Hemmings advertiser.  I
believe that I have everything but I am always open to suggestions.

Paul Hartlieb wrote:

> Amen to all that!  I've got all the parts out in the garage to install
>
> factory air in the convertible.  Just can't seem to work the courage
> to
> mess with that firewall.

<Snip>

> I think I remember seeing an ad in Hemmings about a year and a half
> ago
> for conversion plates, but never followed up on it.  Don't think I've
> seen it since.  I'll have to check with a buddy that saves these and
> see
> if he has that issue.  I think it was May '96.  I'd still like to
> finish
> this project someday if I could find someone that could modify the
> firewall and have it look totally factory and not look like a chop
> job.
>
> Paul
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:24:08 -0500 (EST)
From: BMAN6771@aol.com
Subject: ss1's for sale

i have a set of 5 ss1 wheels for sale in pretty good shape. i need to get rid
of these so i can begin to put a car together.
$250

brent 
1967 cutlass convertible
(bman6771@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:56:16 -0500 (EST)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Tripower manifold 57-1145

Ran across an Olds tripower manifold. Number cast into it is as above,
57-1145. 
I'm presuming that this is a '57 J2-type and not a later '66-7 type. If
anybody knows please post or email me directly . 
Any comments as to what it's worth?

email privately if interested
CoupeKing@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:31:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Patrick Rose <prose@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Book or service manual?

	Hello everyone! Next weekend I am going to attempt to replace most
of the brake system on my '68 Cutlass myself. I've ordered the parts and
tools I think I will need and I was wondering if anyone had any literature
they would recommend that wouldn't be to confusing to a non-expert like
me. If not, I'll just go to a bookstore and browse around. Thanks!

Pat
'68 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:57:13 -0500
From: cm_hawk@juno.com (Clay V Merenuk)
Subject: Off the frame restoration

How do you lift the body off of the frame of the car?  I was
thinking of doing it myself.

Thanks
Clay
69 442 convertible

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:18:44 +0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: defroster

Clarence,

I ordered one im my '73 Vista Cruiser & I believe that there was one
earlier.   A grided glass was not available then.  Mine included a grill
for intake in the inside of the taligate, the fan & motor themselves, a
slit cut into the top of the plastic trim next to the window for the
blower to exhaust, & the switch which was a rocker type for the lower
left of the dash under the clock.  The cruise rocker switch was next to
it.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama

Clarence R. Isaacks II wrote:

> Did Olds put rear defrosters in the 70-72 Vista Cruisers?  If so does
> anyone have the parts.?  Rear glass, dash switch etc,etc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:12:15 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Hey Stereo Buffs....

Patrick, I think 8 ohm speakers would work just fine. I used 10 ohm 
speakers that I got from a late model GM ('92 Olds 98 actually) in a 
junkyard. GM still uses 10 ohm speakers in some models, though you can't 
always count on it; I have seen others at 9.something ohms which for all 
intents and purposes are the same, but other Delco speakers I've seen are 
only 4 ohms, so you have to check.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:59:29 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Retro fitting OEM A/C

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
 
> PS.  Let me know about the pieces from the Hemmings advertiser.  I
> believe that I have everything but I am always open to suggestions.

I've got feelers out looking for that issue.  Isn't it amazing how
everybody you know saves everything, until you need something, then
nobody keeps nothing!

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Why do they sterilize the needles for lethal injections?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:21:05 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Starter Problems...

I've run into a few electrical problems with my Delta, and I'm hoping
that there is someone that has a better knowledge of this than I do...

For the past few weeks I could hear the starter gear and the flywheel
grinding together after the engine caught, so I knew the starter was
going.  Not only that, but it was very slow cranking, and it managed to
drain a relatively new 850 CCA battery.  The alternator is charging at
about 14.5 volts, and the battery was fine when load tested, so I figure
the starter is drawing *way* too much current.  I checked out some
prices at the local GM Dealership, but a price of $166.95 kinda shocked
me, so I headed out to the local El Junque Yarde. 

I asked the guy for a starter for a '78 Delta 88 w/ the 350 Rocket.  He
later appeared, set one on the counter, but it was from a 307 (it had
'83 307 written on it).  I pointed this out to him, and he said it
should work just fine.  He said that most 307's came with a smaller
starter, but this one was bigger for some reason. (These guys aren't
exactly blessed with brains).  Could someone shed a little light on
this?  Could this be a higher torque starter for the 307 H.O.?

The old starter isn't completely dead, but it shouldn't be long...after
a day of city driving (100km), with numerous hot starts, it ended up
draining the battery.  After all of that driving, it must mean that the
starter is drawing way too much power...

S. Dave Ward

'78 Delta 88 (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC 4x4  (305 TBI)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:27:24 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Retro fitting OEM A/C

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
> 
> Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
> 
> > PS.  Let me know about the pieces from the Hemmings advertiser.  I
> > believe that I have everything but I am always open to suggestions.
> 
> I've got feelers out looking for that issue.  Isn't it amazing how
> everybody you know saves everything, until you need something, then
> nobody keeps nothing!

Which issue are you looking for?  I don't have many, but we may get
lucky.

Don

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:45:09 -0500 (EST)
From: J2ROCKET@aol.com
Subject: Re: 57 OLDS J/2

    Hey Randy,  In answer to your questions about my 57 olds, the current
color now is Alcan white upper & lower with an Allegheny green accent stripe.
You must be using a crystal ball or something! I am indeed doing a color
change on it. I will be Ice green on lower & Allegheny green on upper with an
Alcan white accent stripe. The car has new interior already,although not
original, done in dark green metallic & snow white naugahyde. Last owner had
it done & it is just too good to take it out only because it's not original.
As far as lifter & camshaft lobe failures go, if these models had a weak link
in them, then this was it. Mine also had a cam lobes worn down & lifter foot
wear to the point the engine would not run good enough to get the car moving.
Olds obviously knew about this problem because beginning with the 1959
models, the cam lobes were widened by about 25%. Sounds too good to be true,
right! It is, The same year the cubic inches were going up to 394. The
engineere wanted more main bearing area & needed more cyl. bore room. They
made the block a 1/4 inch longer to accomplish this on the carry over 371 &
the new 394 blocks. Now this means the cam with the much improved lobe widths
is also 1/4 in. too long for a 57 or 58 371 engine!!!  I just had to get that
cam in there anyway. I  cut the front face of the cam down 1/8 in. then I cut
the rear side of the sprocket down 1/8 in a lathe. I then used a thrust plate
off a Pontiac or International trk. V8, can't remember which, drilled  the
block & shimmed to center lobes to lifter bores & center distributor drive
gear. Have seen many 56 thru 58 cams have this failure due to the increased
valve spring pressures used during "the horsepower race era". This is much
the same problem as todays cam lobe failures on the Ch*ev*olet engines.
                                 
      The exterior of the car is all original & so are all mechanical items
right down to the last screw including the vacumn operated secondary carbs. &
the T3 headlights.     
 I have seen your coler on other 57's & it looks great! I was first hooked on
57's  at ten years old back in 1957!!! My uncle bought one, a Super 88
Holiday sedan, charcoal gray metallic with red & gray interior & J2 engine
option. My next door neighbor a year later bought a lavender  1958 Super 88
convertible,  white top, black & white interior again with J2 eng. Went for
some wild rides in both of those beauty's. Remember beating a fellow street
racer's 1956 Ch*v. BelAir built by the famed "Dyno Don Nicholson" with the
dealer installed 57 283 eng., (2)  4 barrell WCFB carter carbs. & 4 speed
man. trans. Didn't mean much though, as I recall, this Ch*v. was also beaten
by a friends Dads car, a 57 Cad. Coupe De Ville.  I have owned many
Oldsmobiles over the years, & as a car nut at large , a service manager for a
truck dealership, I get the chance to recommend many new car purchases to
people. I cannot any longer send people to Olds in good faith after an Olds
dealer in Virginia refused to paint a 4 month old 95 cutlass ciera (rust
spots coming through paint pretty much all over car, even on back sides of
panels like in door jambs, inside fuel filler door, & behind bumpers). Have
been sending people over to Pontiac for a year  & a half now.  Got them 7
sales so far, mostly Bonnevilles & Firebirds. Average selling price is
$26,000 per car. That adds up to $182,000 in lost sales to Olds just from me!
It pains me to do this, but really wouldn't it be a little less costly to
just step up & stand behind their product. I of course , still love & support
all the classic Olds cars. I hope they will become a realistic company on
their current models & regain some of theirmarket share. Now that John Rock
is retired, maybe the new guy will care about Olds having a future. Oh well,
I'm rambling & raving now & gotta go anyway. Let's hear from some more 57
owners!!!        J2 ROCKET        California

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:21:37 -0700
From: Tim Rudolph <trudolph@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Problems...

At 01:21 AM 11/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
<snip>
> I checked out some
>prices at the local GM Dealership, but a price of $166.95 kinda shocked
>me, so I headed out to the local El Junque Yarde. 
 <snip>

Well, I know nothing about starters for '78 Deltas but I just got a rebuilt
starter for my '69 442 from Parts America and with exchange and a $5 coupon
it was $20..  $166.95 sounds outrageous.  Plus this starter I just bought
has a lifetime warranty.. Can't beat that if you ask me.

Tim Rudolph
trudolph@frii.com
'69 442 Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 03:35:26 -0500 (EST)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: 425 engines

how much????
 bernie

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #957
********************************

