
oldsmobile-digest     Wednesday, December 3 1997     Volume 01 : Number 985



Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
Re: Attn 83 and 84 H/O owners....or tranny people
POR 15 (long!)
Transmission ID
Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question
Re: 1983  15th Anniversary Hurst Olds for sale
Re: 1970 Olds 442 ( W-30 ?) For Sale
POR 15
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: 1983  15th Anniversary Hurst Olds for sale
Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance
Re: 1983  15th Anniversary Hurst Olds for sale
Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question
Dick Miller Racing Web Site
Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question
Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
Re: Supremes vs Salons:
RE: Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance
oldsmobile-digest V1 #983
engine similarities
steering box
bashing? Nah.
69 W-30 Radiator Core support
Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question
Re: alignment
Re: off-idle stumble
Re: Final Reply Xmas
Re: Air cleaner woes
Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question
Re: Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance
Re: bashing? Nah.
Re: alignment
Re: Attn 83 and 84 H/O owners....or tranny people
Sorry for the post...
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Power Seats
Advice needed for rear axle replacement

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:46:44 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Dave Ward wrote:
> When they say Pontiac 350, is that the same as the Olds 350?  What about
> 455 (not that it applies to me.)?  Aren't all 455's generic between
> Buick, Olds, and Pontiac?

Oh, no way. The Olds 350 is different from all the others, as is the Olds 
455. Unless you've got a '76 Chevymobile, but that's another story... 
Chevy 350s installed in Olds bodies, but with "Rocket 350" stickers on 
the air cleaner, when Olds ran out of production capacity for their own 
engines. Anyone here ever own one of them?

Check Bryceman's page for places like Mondello that offer catalogs.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:49:52 PST
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Attn 83 and 84 H/O owners....or tranny people

I have an 86 200-4R, and it is stamped OG I believe, and I know that its 
original...so yours sounds original to me...

John
The "Black Mariah"
86 CS

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:56:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: POR 15 (long!)

A while back ssomeone was asking about using POR 15 paint to fight rust. 
I found this on the web, put together by John Blair. John used to be a
member of the list. He's Jim Chermack's neighbor and I had the pleasure of
meeting him and his dad this past summer. John is an interesting fellow.
He has a Bricklin undergoing restoration, a beautifully preserved Morgan,
and some sort of British car (Triumph? I forget) hanging from the ceiling
of his garage. His dad is equally interesting, a collector and restorer 
of midget racing cars among other things. Visiting them was like going to 
the toy store as a kid... ;-)

Anyhow, here's John's POR-15 info...

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------

POR15 FAQ 

©By: John T. Blair (WA4OHZ)
1133 Chatmoss Dr., Va. Beach, Va. 23464; (757) 495-8229

Last updated: 06/29/1997 

1. What is POR-15 paint? 

POR-15 is a polyeurathane paint that contains a rust inhibitor. It can be
painted over light rust and will stop the rust for spreading. It dries
pretty much rock hard and is very scratch resistant and resists brake
fluid. It seals the metal and is used as a primer which can be lightly
sanded and painted over with another primer or a color coat. It will fill
in small (pin) holes. The stuff is great any place that you'd expect to get
rust. 

It is moisture cured. The higher the humidity the faster it drys. 


2. How is it applied? 

It can be brushed or sprayed. However, for most areas, I suggest brushing.
It will gum up a spray gun. I purchased an undercoating gun from JC Whitney
for $35 that I use to spray the POR-15 in places (like the quarter panels
from inside the trunk) that I can't reach with a paint brush. It flows
pretty well. 

If you plan on spraying it, do so only if you are wearing a
forced-fresh-air respirator. It contains Polyisocynates and is nothing to
fool around with, but the results are worth the precautions. 


3. Can it be used as a top coat? 

No! While POR-15 does flow out nicely and dries to a nice high gloss, it
has a tendency to generate tiny bumps as though the paint were out gassing
which is noticeable on smooth metal. However on items like chassis or rusty
metal that are rough any way the bumps aren't very noticeable. 

The only disadvantage is it is Gloss Black, but the color will flush out if
exposed to UV (sunlight). Consiquently, any POR-15 that will be exposed to
Sun light should have a top coat of some other paint applied. It makes a
great "chassis" paint as the chassis is not exposed to sunlight. 


4. Is this like a asfault based paint or undercoating? 

No, it isn't. 


5. How should metal be prepared before painting? 

It is best to sand blast the metal. This is especially true for "new"
metal. POR-15 needs something to bite into. Old rusty metal can be cleaned
by using a wire brush. By this I mean a knotted wire wheel on a 4" 10,000
rpm grinder. 


6. How do you store it? 

I save all my cherry and olive jars and tops. You want relatively small
jars about 2" in dia. and maybe 3" tall. When the quart of POR-15 is first
opened, pour it into several of these small jars and place a piece of
plastic or wax paper over the top of the jar then put the top back on. If
you don't put the plastic on, the top will stick to the jar and you can't
get it open. I've also found that if you store the jar upside down it
helps. Especially any that are totally full. The POR-15 is activated by
humidity and the air that is trapped in the jar will cause the top surface
to harden. You can cut down through it to get to good paint. But by storing
the jars upside down, the film will be at the bottom so when you open the
jar, you have paint! [just check that the tops and plastic are on tightly.
I've had one jar leak all over my bench]. 


7. How do you use POR-15? 

When you want to use POR-15, open a storage jar and pour a little into a
plastic cup, (I salvaged small butter tubs from the kitchen). Then
immediately reseal the storage jar. 

A little POR-15 goes a long ways. It's easier to go back for more than to
have a lot of it go bad. It will "flash", start to harden and not be
spreadable much like body putty fiberglass resin, or epoxy. 

Depending on the humidity, the live of the paint in an open container,
(butter tub) is about 1/2 hour (at least here in Southern VA. when the
humidity is between 95 and 106%). 

Do not return any unused portions to the storage jar after you have had it
out. This will contaminate the paint in the jar and cause it to harden. So
take the leftovers and paint your ramps, inside your bumpers, rusty steel
wheels. 

Since you aren't opening 1 big jar all the time, the POR-15 lasts a lot
longer. At worst I only through a little away when I get to the bottom of
the jar. Before I started doing this, I have had to through about 1/2 a
quart away - $20 down the drain. 


8. How do you stay clean? 

I purchase the loose fitting plastic gloves from a wharehouse buying club
(Price Club). I get 3 packs of 100 gloves for about $5. I where these when
ever I'm using the POR-15 or a acid metal etchant. While I don't stay
completely clean, it's a lot better than not wearing the gloves. 

While the paint is still wet, you can wipe it off using a rag and lacquer
thinner. 


9. What type of bristle brush do you use? 

I buy the cheapest 1" brushes I can get, about 75 cents each, from Kmart.
When I finish painting, I pour any remaining money (I mean POR-15) into the
garbage can on top of old paper. Then I clean the butter tub and paint
brush with lacquer thinner or acetone. I get indefinate use from the butter
tubs (10 or more uses) and at least 3 uses from 1 brush. 

But then again, I'm cheap. 

BTW if you aren't aware of it, you can purchase a 5 gal. of **cleaning**
grade lacquer thinner for $18-$25. That is quite a savings since I just
paid $18/gal for lacquer thinner to paint with. 


10. Is there an acceptable way to thin POR-15? 

Yes. POR sells a solvent that you can used to cut the POR-15 with. However,
you can only cut it about 20%. I've found that if I am brushing it on, I
don't need to cut the POR-15. So you can save you money. 


11. Where can I get POR-15? 

The POR company. They advertise in Hemmings all the time. Their address is:
POR-15 Inc
P.O. Box 1235
Morristown, NJ. 07962-1235
(201) 887-1999
(800) 457-6715 

To email POR-15 Company with comments or questions. 

I suggest you contact them and see if they can give you the name of a local
distributor. I paid $29 + $6.75 or $35.75 from them. From a local
distributor I pay $26. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:46:00 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Transmission ID

Someone posted earlier that they had a mid 80's TH200-4R but couldn't ID
it.  I found another section in the 85 manual that lists the OG for a
Cutlass Cruiser, behind a 307.  Not a performance piece, but a good
tranny if you take care of it.  The year could be obtained by the side
plate stamp between the letters.  The left side numbers indicate julian
date of mfr.  Then, it is followed by a space, then a 1,2,or 3,
indicating which shift, a T for Three Rivers plant, and then the model
year, i.e. 83,84,85, etc., OG, then the serial # of the trans.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:56:38 PST
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

Dave Ward wrote:
  I'm sick and tired of Chevy getting all of GM's press...

Join the club! You get used to it after a while....besides...we like 
junk yards!!!!!! Right gang?!


John Stolarski

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:52:14 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question

> I'm not sure if they're even still there but I'll check
> if you can tell by the VIN then here it is: 1G3GK47Y7FP330858
> I was told it was an 85 Cutlass Salon, but i dont see any 5's in the vin
> except for the last one but that is just the number in the series in which
> it was built, right?
> 
Well, you'll be happy to know, or at least relieved, that you have a
1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon.  I sent a post earlier to the list
depicting a similar VIN breakdown.  The 1 indicates USA built, the G is
for General Motors, the 3 for Oldsmoblie division.  The GK47 is the body
style...Cutlass Salon, 2 dr., the Y indicates LV2 307 V-8, and the F
indicates the 1985 model year.  G would be 86, H for 87, etc.

You should have on this car....dual sport mirrors, D35 code, sport
console with shifter, code D55, sport bucket seats, code AR9,  black
paint insert headlight bezels, and guage package, code U52.  These codes
should be found on the trunk lid decal.

Hope this helps.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:00:02 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 1983  15th Anniversary Hurst Olds for sale

> 79k miles on it...body is flawless other than typical clear coat damage


Bells going off in my head.  Clear coat damage????  For an 83?  All
things equal, but to me it signals a repaint.  Up through 85, and maybe
86 (not sure about 86, my 86 M/C SS I bought new had laquer though) on
the Cutlass they used laquer paint as far as I can tell.   Look inside
the trunk for the service code decal.  Down at the bottom it most likely
says Dis. Laquer. (My 85 442 shows this) Now they did use BC/CC on
certain models, but I've never seen an early 80's Cutlass with it. If it
shows BC/CC, then I have learned something new.  Anyway, if it's clean,
6500 isn't too bad of a price.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:08:42 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 1970 Olds 442 ( W-30 ?) For Sale

DKlauber@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I just missed a pretty strong #2 1970 W-30 conv. with 61k miles.  Only
> problems was very minor paint bubbling and its color was ralley red (pretty
> orange if you ask me)  I had the guy talked down to $15K.  $5K for what you
> are talking about seems high to me


as an owner of a W-30 convertible....it sounds more like a #3 car from 
the discription.....I would hope for 15k it had SOME documentation...a 
build sheet....window sticker....something....I think for that price i'd 
let it go.....you can do better in Hemmings for that price....you might 
have to put on your traveling shoes...but if its that big of an 
investment...it would well be worth it....Hoagie


1970 Cutlass SX convertible
1971 442 W-30 convertible
1971 442 "hardtop coupe"
1971 Monte Carlo
1969 Camaro RS
1997 camaro Z-28

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:17:24 -0500
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: POR 15

Guys, (and Lisa et al)

		I tried POR 15 on exhaust manifolds. After 3 months it looks
like it was just applied....

					The General

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:23:46 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

Jason Labay wrote:
> 
> David, Terri and Rob wrote:
> >
> > Jason Labay wrote:
> > >
> > > Trevor Lee wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > what's getting in the way.  Thanks for the tips, but the only thing I'd
> > > > > take a BFH to is a Chevrolet.  Cheers.
> > > >
> > > >         I find it very interesting that so many guys on the list, with such
> > > > consistency, are into "bashing" Chevys (some more literally than others as this
> > > > quote from Jason Adcock shows =B)  Especially considering that the cars which
> > > > you guys are talking about are so closely related to 'em.  I could understand
> > > > bashing Ford and Chrysler, who, IMHO both made many fine musclecars as well,
> > > > several of which I would be proud to own, but to bash other GMs??
> > >
> > > Trevor you bring up an excellent point, one I have been wondering about
> > > since I joined this list back in May of 1995. I too wonder why there is
> > > so much Chevy bashing here as you are correct in that the divisions
> > > share parts that are interchangable. I don't know about you but I get a
> > > kick out of it myself. I am in the process of building an 80 Olds drag
> > > car for next racing season and haven't started the motor yet. Was going
> > > to go the 455 route, but a new crate LS1 is much more tempting and I
> > > would love the look on the Olds elite faces when I pop the hood. In fact
> > > I can't see why I shouldn't go with the LS1. It is all aluminum and
> > > light compared to the iron 455. F-bodies are running low 13's in stock
> > > form with this motor...in a lightened G-body whis would hit high 12's
> > > with ease just bolting it in. LS1 also has 6 bolt main caps for extra
> > > piece of mind :-) For the price of a "nice" 455 build up I can get a new
> > > LS1. Oh well I haven't even got the suspension done yet, let alone
> > > worrying about the motor.
> > >
> > > Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
> > > Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group, Inc.
> > > 95 Impala SS
> > > 80 Olds 442 W-30
> > > 75 Hurst/Olds W-25
> >
> > as an owner of a 6 speed '97 Camaro..believe me no one loves the new aluminum motor than me....this car flies
> > and its only the LT-1...but I can assure you of 1 thing...when it comes time to re sleeve that aluminum motor you'll wished you had an 
iron block..
> 
> True, the 97 and 98 production LS1 block is thin walled and can only be
> bored out .020 max to be safe. '99 and up blocks are getting more
> material. This motor is stronger in many aspects when compared to the
> LT1. Its main weak link is the piston and ring setup. Pistons are not
> forged and not really feasable for high boost or big shots of NOS...just
> like the LT1. The LS1 can handle 400 to 450 hp easily in stock form
> provided pistons and rings are changed in high boost
> applications....those two parts are the only weak link up to that HP
> level. It is also easier to extract HP out of the LS1 as compared to the
> LT1, but both seem to level off at 450 on stock components before
> trouble starts.
> 
> ....and lets not forget about the weak link....the body flex....
> 
> Nothing subframe connectors cannot fix. Granted full framed cars are
> more stable, as my 95 Impala is much more rigid than my 93 Z28 was.
> 
> >00 rpm  at 80 mph....an extremely streetable ride....but what I like about the olds big >block is the abilty to cloud both tires through a 
stock 3.91 12 bolt
> 
> Properly built up LT1 with a 9# or bigger blower will do this easily.
> You don't even need boost as some NA LT1's are running high 11's on
> stock bottom ends, driven daily. Many examples of this on the F-body
> mailing list. Also see many examples of 5.0's that will run 10 and 11
> sec et's all day and drive em home from the track. I was totally
> impressed at the Mondello Olds Nats this year though with a few of those
> big blocks running low 10's and that awesome torque twist off the line
> with front wheels slightly in the air...damn I love that :-)
> 
> Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
> Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group, Inc
> 95 Impala SS
> 80 Olds 442 W-30
> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25


I'd still rather build my olds for a few bucks...than spend thousands 
and thousands trying to get this camaro get outta its own way...we all 
have seen how much a blower for a LT-1...or LS-1 runs...about $3500.00 
and what does that get me?....about 425 hp...I get that outta my olds 
with only spending less than a thousand...a carb....an 
intake...headers...on my 97 camaro Z-28....I have flowmasters...a speed 
chip...thats enough for me...when I want real speed and power...I just 
jump in 1 of my big block drop tops...so...PARTY ON WAYNE!!...Hoagie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:47:14 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 1983  15th Anniversary Hurst Olds for sale

Mike Rothe wrote:
> 
> > 79k miles on it...body is flawless other than typical clear coat damage
> 
> Bells going off in my head.  Clear coat damage????  For an 83?  All
> things equal, but to me it signals a repaint.  Up through 85, and maybe
> 86 (not sure about 86, my 86 M/C SS I bought new had laquer though) on
> the Cutlass they used laquer paint as far as I can tell.   Look inside
> the trunk for the service code decal.  Down at the bottom it most likely
> says Dis. Laquer. (My 85 442 shows this) Now they did use BC/CC on
> certain models, but I've never seen an early 80's Cutlass with it. If it
> shows BC/CC, then I have learned something new.  Anyway, if it's clean,
> 6500 isn't too bad of a price.
> 
> Mike Rothe


well..lets see...its 15 years old....and has been setting out in the 
south carolina sun for probably as long.....its not TITANIUM....its 
paint....I'd much rather fix some paint than replace a rusted out 
quarter panel or fender....and like I said...the BODY IS SPOTLESS....no 
bubbles no troubles!!!...but...thats just me....to each his own...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:56:40 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance

Sorry for the non-Olds post, but I need some opinions on what to do
about my computer system.  To make a lo-g story short, I called last
night to schedule my annual maintenance.  I was told that the problems
that I'm having are not hardward problems, but that they are corrupted
software problems.  I was asked when I last restored my system and I
told Mr. Computer Geek that I never had.  He wanted to know how old the
system was, I told him two years.  He was amazed that I had never
restored the system, told me I should restore it and that I would think
that I had a whole new computer, and that I should restore the system
every six months!  Do any of you restore your system every six months? 
Nobody ever told me I had to do that.

Computer literates are asked to contact me privately on this matter, I
can provide more information if you're interested.

Thanks for the bandwidth,
Paul  
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:31:53 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 1983  15th Anniversary Hurst Olds for sale

> well..lets see...its 15 years old....and has been setting out in the
> south carolina sun for probably as long.....its not TITANIUM....its
> paint....I'd much rather fix some paint than replace a rusted out
> quarter panel or fender....and like I said...the BODY IS SPOTLESS....no
> bubbles no troubles!!!...but...thats just me....to each his own...

True, I agree.  Don't get so sarcastic here.  It's good that you stopped
and checked it out for everyone's benefit on the list.  But if it has
been repainted, then somebody MAY have repaired the body, but then
again, I'm just trying to say be careful.  Sight unseen, one can only
speculate.  I know what the SC sun can do, I spent 15 years there until
I moved to Miami recently.  However, it MAY be original paint, but I was
just concerned if it WAS a repaint, then there MIGHT be shoddy body work
underneath, so you still may have to end up replacing a quarter panel or
two.  Front fenders are fairly cheap though.  Not likely to be rust out,
since inland SC cars don't do a LOT of that.  The hard part of the whole
thing is, when you DO repaint it, it'll cost another arm and a leg for
the decals.  And good luck on finding good interior door panel pieces. 
You gotta keep those sundry items in mind when you are painting a car
too.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:49:20 -0600
From: "M.Chapman" <chapman1@midwest.net>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question

At 06:52 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> I'm not sure if they're even still there but I'll check
>> if you can tell by the VIN then here it is: 1G3GK47Y7FP330858
>> I was told it was an 85 Cutlass Salon, 
>> 
>Well, you'll be happy to know, or at least relieved, that you have a
>1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon.  I sent a post earlier to the list
>depicting a similar VIN breakdown.  The 1 indicates USA built, the G is
>for General Motors, the 3 for Oldsmoblie division.  The GK47 is the body
>style...Cutlass Salon, 2 dr., the Y indicates LV2 307 V-8, and the F
>indicates the 1985 model year.  G would be 86, H for 87, etc.
>
>You should have on this car....dual sport mirrors, D35 code, sport
>console with shifter, code D55, sport bucket seats, code AR9,  black
>paint insert headlight bezels, and guage package, code U52.  These codes
>should be found on the trunk lid decal.
>
>Hope this helps.
>Mike Rothe
>
Thanks Mike,
I do have all those things except on headlight bezel is not black.  I hit a
deer just after i bought it last week and i replaced the bezel with one
from a Supreme, i did this before i noticed there was a difference.  that's
a big DOH! to the forehead for ya!

i have one question though. part of my column rotates around the rest of
the coulmn whenever i shift gears.  could it be that someone has relaced
something in my car i.e. steering column or tranny or is that part of the
column supposed to move like that. Do you even know what I'm trying to say.
 Like i said before I've only had it a week and i don't know that much
about these cars that's why i joined the list. so please forgive me if this
seems like a stupid question to you.

thanks again
Mark Chapman
85 Cutlass Salon w/t-tops 

p.s. are t-tops rare on an 85 salon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:54:07 -0500
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: Dick Miller Racing Web Site

Just thought I'd pass this on to the rest of the group.  ANOTHER OLDS
SITE!!!

http://www.mspmall.com/dmr/

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson (OCA WebGuy)
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America #18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:07:02 -0700
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

Dave Ward wrote:

> Could someone tell me where I could get a catalogue with lots of Olds
> rebuild stuff?  I'm sick and tired of Chevy getting all of GM's press...

I've got a catlogue from Northern Auto parts warehouse   havent ordered anything from 
them yet, but I've heard some good reports about them
they show 2 different 350 kits '68-76 and '77-80

'68-76
rering-$119.95
master-319.95
cam-89.95

'77-80
rering-109.95
master-319.95
cam-89.95

if your interested they'll send you a free catalogue   1-800-831-0884

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:19:47 PST
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question

>Mark Chapman
>85 Cutlass Salon w/t-tops 
>
>p.s. are t-tops rare on an 85 salon?


I think all Salons had T-tops...but don't qoute me...
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:27:15 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Dustin Cross wrote:
> they show 2 different 350 kits '68-76 and '77-80

What changed between '76 and '77 I wonder? 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:23:52 -0500
From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons:

Mark,
        There are several subtle ways of telling the differneces between a
Salon and a Supreme.  On the outside, the headlight bezels are painted
black, the turning blinkers in the front bumper should have an amber lense
as opposed to a white lens with an amber bulb.  It should have SS rims that
are painted body color. 

On the inside it should have RECLINING bucket seats, console, sport
steering wheel, and Rallye guages.  Some of these could be ordered on a
Supreme, but these were all standarsd on a Salon.

Also your vin does tell you it's a Salon
********if you can tell by the VIN then here it is: 1G3GK47Y7FP330858
The 5th digit K means its the Salon.  If were a Supreme it'd be an R.

Hope I helped you out.

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme
'83 Cutlass Ciera

Mark Chapman wrote:
How can i tell my car is really a Salon and not a Supreme with badges stuck
I also think maybe it used to have a column shifter and not a console and
somone just converted it over. does this mean anything as to the make
(Salon vs. Supreme). can you tell by the VIN or do you have to read the RPO
codes.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:29:02 -0600
From: Rob Leatherwood <robl@abcomputers.com>
Subject: RE: Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF60.F0BA0F40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paul,

First of all relax. I am a computer systems integrator and have much =
computer experience including building systems since 1988, programming =
since 86, networks since 89, etc.

Restoring a system every 6 months "for the fun of it" is busy work. I =
don't see how it could hurt anything to do it but it is not needed.

Depending on the specific problems you are having, you may find that =
rebuilding the contents of the hard drive is necessary. Keep in mind =
however that you face a delimma; a recent backup may contain the =
problems and an old backup will not contain recently input data, =
programs or configuration changes.

Someone that is performing hardware maintenance on your system may or =
may not be correct in their assessment of the situation. More than =
likely... not.

Send me an email specifically describing the symptoms of your problems =
including what program, error messages exactly as they appear, unusual =
occurences, etc. Keep in mind that the more detail you give me, the =
easier it will be for me to help you SOLVE the problems and therefore I =
will not have to bill you or if we get into a bill, will keep it as low =
as possible.

Sincerely,
Rob Leatherwood
President
Applied Business Computers
- ----------
From: 	Paul Hartlieb[SMTP:plh@nbn.net]
Sent: 	Tuesday, December 02, 1997 6:56 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance

Sorry for the non-Olds post, but I need some opinions on what to do
about my computer system.  To make a lo-g story short, I called last
night to schedule my annual maintenance.  I was told that the problems
that I'm having are not hardward problems, but that they are corrupted
software problems.  I was asked when I last restored my system and I
told Mr. Computer Geek that I never had.  He wanted to know how old the
system was, I told him two years.  He was amazed that I had never
restored the system, told me I should restore it and that I would think
that I had a whole new computer, and that I should restore the system
every six months!  Do any of you restore your system every six months?=20
Nobody ever told me I had to do that.

Computer literates are asked to contact me privately on this matter, I
can provide more information if you're interested.

Thanks for the bandwidth,
Paul =20
- --=20
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF60.F0BA0F40
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF60.F0BA0F40--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:22:39 -0500
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: oldsmobile-digest V1 #983

Message text written by INTERNET:chris witt
>In fact one of the most annoying bits of info is that damn "CFD" cast into
all
our Olds heads, blocks, etc. "Chevrolet Foundry Division". Just because
this is
so does not mean you should rub it in. :-)<

Actually, CFD stands for Central Foundry Division which cast parts for
other than Chevy, Chevy had some of its own casting plants

Examples of other similar situations where a GM division built parts or
assemblies for  Pontiac, Buick, Olds, etc. vs. Chevrolet building their
own.

Automatic Transmissions - Hydramatic vs. Chevrolet's own plants 
Drive Shafts - Saginaw Div. vs. Chevrolet's own plants
Body Panels - Fisher Body vs. Chevrolet's own plants
Castings - Central Foundry vs. Chevrolet's own plants

Note this has all changed with GM's restructuring in the 1980s.

Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8 
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:40:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: engine similarities

varied things about the cars...it's almost what defines each car as being so
unique...from the bellhousing difference between Olds/Buick and Chev/Pontiac to
Buick's apparent relation to Ford with their front-mounted distributor, and the
distributor rotation direction difference of Olds/Pontiac (counterclockwise)
and Chev/Buick (clockwise).  But one thing that they ALL share which shows that
even the engines indeed are related in some way is the good ol' GM V8
    "1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2".
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
=============================
Ay, ay, ay! The misinformation never ceases.

Two GM bellhouse patterns [on real cars, RWD, '64 or so to the end of the V8]:

1) Chevy. Looks like a mansard [barn] roof. Pointy at the top [Chris bites
tongue/ fingers in desperate attempt not to add more here...]

2) Everyone else. Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac. Not pointy on top, kinda flat,
with about 7" between the top 2 holes. I believe the indexing pins are common
to both patterns, not quite sure on that.

Dunno how others' dist's rotate; Olds is ccw.

Not only are all the GM V8's fired the same order, I learned that if you
abandon the dorky F*rd numbering system, and number a F'ds cylinders 1 thru 8
AS THEY COME ON THE CRANK like every sane engine maker, gee whiz, it's the
exact same firing order as the GM's! Must be convenient to make the crank that
way.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:42:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: steering box

I was told that the valve inside the box is stuck open for the right
side...is that the piutman seal? If so, how would I check? When I turn
on the car, the steering wheel automatically turns itself almost 1/2
around it seems like...any help is appreciated....

John Stolarski
==================
Yep, it's FUBAR allright. Get another one. Unless time is more plentiful
that money for you, then you might tear it open and see if you can unstick
the stuck parts yourself.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:56:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: bashing? Nah.

True, the 97 and 98 production LS1 block is
... yadda yadda, snip about 10-15 lines of CHEVY talk [oooh, spelled, too]
LT1... LT1... LS1... LS1... LT1... 95 Impala
=====================
What a great example. There WAS an Olds mention there, later. Not to be taken
as a personal attack, Jason, I know you love all your cars. I'd have such an
array too if I had the money. Ideally, my stable would include an AC Cobra,
complete with Ford motor.

But one thing leads to another, first there's one chevy powered Cutlass, then a
race car with the new Z-ingbob or whatever, next thing you know all the Olds
nuts leave and the Olds list is nothing but the same chevy talk that you can
find ad nauseum in any catalog of parts. Yawn. There are email lists devoted to
all sorts of cars. I used to be active in one called Autos-L until it fell
apart at the seams, messages would not go thru anymore.

I have never uttered nor heard here serious 'bashing' of other brands. Founded
criticism, perhaps, with case histories to back up the critique. We are
generally more along the lines of "Olds is great" rather than "Brand X is
lame"- a subtle but not indistinguishable difference.

Again, if we do not defend this territory as being for & about -OLDS- then,
surely thru attrition it will become less and less Olds-related. Which is why
most of us came here.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:49:14 -0500
From: cm_hawk@juno.com (Clay V Merenuk)
Subject: 69 W-30 Radiator Core support

Is there a difference between the 69 W-30 Radiator core support
and a 442 radiator core support?  Or is the cut out for the OAI
in the red inner fender wells?  What does the plastic scoops
under the front bumper attach to?  Does it show this in the Fisher
Body Manual?  Just thinking of making my convertible a W-30.

Thanks,
Clay
69 442 convertible

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:11:05 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question

M.Chapman wrote:
 
> i have one question though. part of my column rotates around the rest of
> the coulmn whenever i shift gears.  could it be that someone has relaced
> something in my car i.e. steering column or tranny or is that part of the
> column supposed to move like that. Do you even know what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  All console cars to that (newer ones
anyway).  That's how they get the steering column to lock and enable you
to only take the key out when it's in park.

> p.s. are t-tops rare on an 85 salon

Don't know about the rarity, but they were not a standard feature as
another post stated.  They were an (approx.) $850 option.

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:13:07 -0500 (EST)
From: BigEJ@aol.com
Subject: Re: alignment

Paul Hartleib wrote:

<<Well, I had new tires mounted on the Ninety Eight back in the early
spring.  They were wearing something terrible on the insides, so I
figured a front end alignment was in order as well.  I also took in my
shop manual and the mechanic ignored it.  He aligned the car on a
computerized machine and the oldest full-size Olds listing it had was
for 1985 or something near there.  So those are the settings that were
used.  I was told that these settings would make the car handle better
than the '67 settings and would take alot of the "sea worthiness" and
"play" out of it.  I did notice a handling difference at first.  And I
wasn't wild about it.  But over time I guess I've grown used to it. 
I've had an '85 Delta and I can say that I think the '67 now handles
more like my '85 did.  But if I ever get it aligned again, I think I'd
go back to the '67 specs (and go to an old-timer mechanic that doesn't
have a damn computerized rack!).>>

It's very likely that you had either a lazy or uninformed mechanic align your
67.  The only difference between the new computerized alignment equipment and
older alignment equipment is accuracy and maybe speed.  Every piece of
equipment that I've seen has a provision to use your own specs, if the specs
provided by the equipment don't cover the job at hand!
The specs for an 85 are NOT CORRECT for your 67.  The suspension is
completely different (short/long arm vs macpherson strut) and the forces on
the front wheels are completely different (Being shoved down the road vs
dragging the car down the road).  
Using incorrect specs will result in unsatisfactory handling, tire and
suspension wear, and maybe even some safety considerations.
Perhaps you should find a interested mechanic with a good alignment system.
 Money well spent!

Elephant Engine Ernie

67 442
50  88

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:58:58 -0600
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: off-idle stumble

On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:22:27 -0800 (PST) PSHENG@scuacc.scu.edu writes:
>HELP!  I can't figure this problem out and it's driving me nuts!
>I have a '72 cutlass supreme with 350.  The motor has about 6000 miles 
>on it, the previous owner had an ATK crate motor put in.  The carb is a 
>rebuilt Q-jet that was installed a week before I bought it.  the only 
>modifications I made to it are an open-element K&N air cleaner and a MSD
blaster 2 
>coil. The problem is this: occasionally (not all the time) it hesitates
and 
>stumbles right off idle, or under a heavy load.  when it does this, it 
>I give it more gas. What could it be?  The plugs, wires, and cap look
good.  If the engine  was running lean, it would do this all the time
instead of intermittently, 
>right?
>Did the coil fry my points, and would that cause the problem 
>intermittently?
>Any ideas?
>
Just because a carb was rebuilt doesn't mean it was done properly. It
could be too small or too big. The secondary metering rods may not be
correct. A lot of things. I spent a week or two tuning my 330, changing
secondary metering rods, adjusting the float,accelerator pump,  etc. to
get rid of a bog on acceleration. QJets take time and patience. Once
they're in though, they really run well. 

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:47:52 -0600
From: katana72@juno.com (Rob T)
Subject: Re: Final Reply Xmas

 <snip>
 I have to agree, I have been on this list since July 96 and this past
month and half has been really absurb(actually spelled absurd).There is
no need for fighting amongst Olds owners and to be truthful I think Greg
needs to start editing membership here on the Olds list.  Come on, this
is getting tiresome of all the one word replies and 
>short bursts of my car is faster and profane language.  So I encourage
Greg to 
>start deleting members unless they have something of real importance
related
>to Oldsmobile cars, collectables or general olds info.  This is my 
opinion.
>So everybody be happy and enjoy your olds from 1896 to 1998 and 
>remember I am not conceited, just convinced.
>
>Two72W30s and going back to W MACHINES 
>in a month, (Mark Prince)
>1972 442 W30 Race Rocket
>
I have to agree with Mark to some extent on this issue. I don't mind a
little humor now and again, so don't stop being funny on my account.
These threads like the Q4 stuff do get VERY annoying and the replies to
the stuff for sale really should go directly to the person that has the
stuff for sale, not the whole list. But, do keep the advertising up. We
all need to know what's available out there !!! Sometimes this list seems
ALMOST as bad as some of those AOL chat rooms!!! Enough of my soapbox,
I'll step down, now.

Katana72          "It's NOT yourDaddy's Oldsmobile !!!!!    Hastings, MN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 22:24:47 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Air cleaner woes

At 12:01 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>> On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Brent Pinkstaff wrote:
>> > 2) The decal was too big. Not a lot, but enough. Did Oldsmobile make a
>> > 4bbl air cleaner that would have been slightly (read 3/8") smaller in
>> > the area that the deal goes?
>> >
>> > The engine is a 1970. The intake is a 1971. The air cleaner fits OK and
>> > even lines up with the steel pre-heat tube.
>> > Is this the wrong air cleaner or is Fusick's decal to big??
>>


    Mark,   Will the soap and water mix work on your decals?  I purchased a
few from you and recognized that there could be a difficulty applying them
because of the difference in a single plane type material being affixed to a
compound surface like the 'cone' shape of the air cleaner lid.


   Glenn
   '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:17:38 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons: another question

> i have one question though. part of my column rotates around the rest of
> the coulmn whenever i shift gears.  could it be that someone has relaced
> something in my car i.e. steering column or tranny or is that part of the
> column supposed to move like that. Do you even know what I'm trying to say.

First off, there is no stupid question, except one you refuse to ask. 
Ya gotta start somewhere!  Yes, the column collar rotates when
shifting.  This rotation activates the neutral start switch on the
steering column, and the reverse light switch when in reverse, and
allows you to remove the key when in park.  A linkage from the
transmission (rod) extends up to the column (look under the brake master
cylinder under the hood) which allows the collar to "follow" the shift
pattern.  It essentially is a column shifter type, except the handle is
moved to the console.  As far as the black in the headlight bezels go,
you can take the chrome ones, and tape the outer edges with masking
tape, and satin black paint the inner areas.  Replacements from GM have
a notation in the parts list as "paint to match".
 
> p.s. are t-tops rare on an 85 salon

Well, I'm not sure the exact number, but I've seen quite a few 85
T-toppers in my days.  I ordered mine with them, and I believe it was
around $850 for that option.  What ~I~ haven't seen many of is the
moon-roof.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:29:06 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: Non Olds - Need Computer Assistance

Rob Leatherwood wrote:

Rob,
 
> First of all relax.

Gee, did I sound that uptight?  Maybe the people at work are right...
 
> Restoring a system every 6 months "for the fun of it" is busy work. I don't see how it could hurt anything to do it but it is not needed.

This is what I was thinking.
  
> Someone that is performing hardware maintenance on your system may or may not be correct in their assessment of the situation. More than likely... not.

I was thinking this, too.
 
> Send me an email specifically describing the symptoms of your problems including what program, error messages exactly as they appear, unusual occurences, etc.

For starters, its a Packard Bell system.  I've recently come to learn
that these aren't the most reliable systems...

Secondly, it has a Sears 3 year maintenance agreement that includes
three annual preventative maintenance visits.  I'm not even going to go
into my feeling about Sears.  This will only be it's first maintenance
(if they ever do it).  The system is two years old.  Don't know why I
just didn't get around to getting it serviced until now.

Other than wanting the maintenance, I've got two specific problems:

Problem #1: My monitor can go from extremely bright to extremely dim at
the snap of a finger.  It can also go anywhere in between.  No rhyme or
reason.  Will do it hot or cold, some days won't do it at all, some days
does it quite a bit.  It's really getting to be annoying.  I think its a
hardward problem (I've heard these things tend to spontaneously combust,
but I'm hoping that's just a rumor).  Mr. Sears Geek tells me he thinks
the driver is corrupted (this was an over-the-phone diagnosis).

Problem #2:  P/B uses a combination modem/soundcard.  I've heard these
units aren't very reliable.  If I've been on line and go off and want to
shut down the computer, I get an error message that says "Modem not
responding".  Also, if I have a failed connection/busy signal, I can
hear the modem "click" off, but it remains connected to the phone
sometimes (our phone has lines with lights so I can tell it's still
connected.)  The only way to disconnect in this case is to reboot or run
Modem Diagnostics.  I feel this a hardware problem also, but I was told
this is a driver corruption, too.  This was also a phone diagnosis.

To top things off, I was told to do this "restore" thing and see what it
did and then call back to schedule the maintenence.  I tried to carry
they system in to the local Sears service center - they don't do
computer service there...

So that's where I'm at right now.  I thought I'd give them the benefit
of the doubt and do the restore this weekend, but I'm not expecting that
to correct either one of my problems.

Thanks,
Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:39:06 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: bashing? Nah.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; me from
myself <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 10:21 PM
Subject: bashing? Nah.


>snip>
>Again, if we do not defend this territory as being for & about -OLDS-
then,
>surely thru attrition it will become less and less Olds-related.
Which is why
>most of us came here.
>
>--
>Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca
[Lansing, MI]
>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

Went to a swap meet and car corral at Indy State Fairgrounds on
Sunday. It was raining; had to park 1/2 mile away and walk :-(.....
100,000 sq. feet of parts & junk; ch*vy parts & junk. Was hoping to
score some cheap gaskets and other stuff. two hours later and nothing
but BB or SB, (they don't even bother to lable it ch*vy). I got mad
and went home. Never hated ch*vies so much. I'm biased for all time.
LET'S KEEP THIS LIST OLDS!!!!!!!

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:48:57 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: alignment

BigEJ@aol.com wrote:

> It's very likely that you had either a lazy or uninformed mechanic align your
> 67. 

I'll vote for the former, since he never even took the manual out of the
trunk!  In typical GM dealership fashion they have now promoted this guy
to Shop Foreman...

>  Money well spent!

Unfortunately I work for these people, so not only is it terribly
convenient, it's also less expensive than many other shops (OTOH, one
gets what one pays for...)  and having already paid of one alignment,
I'm not real wild about paying for another one.  Guess what I should
have done was made them re-do the alignment then using the right specs,
but the story was awful convincing and I didn't think there would be all
that much difference.  I am thinking twice about taking the car in for
anymore service though, we don't have any "old guys" in the shop and
they're usually the only ones that know how to work on these things.

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:52:27 -0500
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Attn 83 and 84 H/O owners....or tranny people

CHECKING THE OLDS FAQ... :-) ...the code OG is associated with the "Olds
307".  Looks like the tranny put behind the regular 150 horse 307.
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:54:49 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Sorry for the post...

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
> 
> Rob Leatherwood wrote:
> 
> Rob,
> 
> > First of all relax.
> 
> Gee, did I sound that uptight?  Maybe the people at work are right...

Oh no! Sorry about this post, folks.  I thought Rob's reply was private,
turns out it was to the list.  When I replied to him, I thought it was
private, too.  Guess not.  Now all of you know my problems, which I was
trying to spare you all from.  A thousand apologies...

I'm so ashamed! :(

Thanks for your understanding, though.

Greg, I guess you won't throw me off, will you????

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:04:11 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

> I'd still rather build my olds for a few bucks...than spend thousands
> and thousands trying to get this camaro get outta its own way...we all
> have seen how much a blower for a LT-1...or LS-1 runs...about $3500.00
> and what does that get me?....about 425 hp...I get that outta my olds
> with only spending less than a thousand...a carb....an
> intake...headers...on my 97 camaro Z-28....I have flowmasters...a speed
> chip...thats enough for me...when I want real speed and power...I just
> jump in 1 of my big block drop tops...so...PARTY ON WAYNE!!...Hoagie

        Well, Hoagie, I gotta agree with you on one point...when I want serious power, I don't look to the computer controlled cars either.  I
feel that a computer belongs on your desk, not under your hood.  If my computer at home breaks down, I don't have to WALK to the computer store
to buy replacement parts.  =B)  And certainly parts for the older engines are cheaper...I was quite surprised to read the price of the blower for
the LT-1/LS-1.  I know that Summit has blowers for non-injected BBs for like $1500, SBs for $1000.  I think that's a 6-71.
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:33:14 -0500
From: cm_hawk@juno.com (Clay V Merenuk)
Subject: Power Seats

From: cm_hawk
Full-Name: Clay V Merenuk
To: Dal_Allan@mcimail.com
Subject: Re: Power_seat
References: <348232d0.endl@endl.us.com>
X-Status: Unsent

Dal,I was lucky to have the reliability copy on the 69 442 convertible
that shows the options from the factory.  The power seats wern't listed. 
I believe the 6 way power seat was installed at the dealership.  I have
the booklet on dealer installedoptions and it shows the 6 way power seat
option(up down, front back, tilt forwardand backward).  Also, I have
bucket seats.  Hope this helps you out.Clay69 442 convertibleOn Sun, 30
Nov 1997 19:45:20 pst "Dal Allan" <Dal_Allan@mcimail.com> writes:>I say
your note on the Olds reflector and have to ask whether you have >bucket
seats or not. The Strato buckets only came with a 4-way >according to
>all the books and I've been tryng to figure out if I can adapt the
>power >assembly from any of the later models to my 67 Cutlass. So far I
>haven't >come across a car with a similar mounting pattern, if you've
got one, >it >will give me hope. >>Thanks,>>Dal>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:14:35 -0800
From: dkilindr@direct.ca
Subject: Advice needed for rear axle replacement

Hello everyone,
I'm looking at replacing one of the axle shafts which aquired a small
wobble after getting a little too close to a curb.  I've got a 70 W-30
with a W-27 diff with 3.91 gears.  I read somewhere that these
differentials came with heavy duty axles.  Does anyone know where I can
find these. I'm going to check out some scrap yards but I'd like to
know  which differential gear ratios came with these heavy duty axles.  

Also, the assembly manual I've got refers to a separate assembly manual
for the axle and rear drive assembly (p/n 405237). Any ideas on who to
try for this manual?

Thanks
Dino
70 W-30

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #985
********************************

