To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #969


oldsmobile-digest      Monday, November 24 1997      Volume 01 : Number 969



Re: Hurst 442 info
Re: 70 SX Cutlass
Re: Flat top pistons
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Re: 70 SX Cutlass
Re: Hurst 442 info
Compression improvement
[Fwd: Pontiac parts available for swap]
[Fwd: Magazine]
Re: Oh, C'mon....
Re: [Fwd: Magazine]
Edel. heads quandry
egr vs air
mod'd 57 @ cent'l
freon
Re: 10.50 ET 70 Cutlass?
edel. dips
car rarity
Re: Build Sheet - Where
where to attach gages
Re: Build Sheet - Where?
Re:Oldsmobiles Available
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Re: carbs
Re: Hurst 442 info
Re: 3-on-the-tree
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
dishless pistons
computer coedes
c'case breather filter
tranny question
Re: JWO...
Floor Mats
Re: where to attach gages
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Oil Pan
Re: edel. dips
Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover
Re: 3-on-the-tree C/S Ragtop...me too,not a rag though.........
Re: 70 SX Cutlass
Hurst 442 Info
Re: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover
Re: need h*lp with Manual Trans swap
quad 4 experiences
Re: quad 4 experiences
Re: 1970 Rallye 350/  grills?
Re: Door Locks
Re: Winter Project Dreams
Re: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover
Re: car rarity
Re: Advantages of valve size
Re: need h*lp with Manual Trans swap
Reponse
Re: 80's 442/Hust VIN decoding
Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s
Re: Reponse

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:27:05 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Hurst 442 info

Mike Rothe wrote:

> So far, you are in the 442 realm also.  Forgot to mention all this
> before.  AND, there is a UPC code sticker on the dist. cap.

My 307 "Y" motor follows this same color/sticker code that you are
refering to, and I see no reason why it would be a "9" marked as a "Y"
<HG>
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:41:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 70 SX Cutlass

>> I may be in the process of purchasing a 70 SX Cutlass.  What is the
>[snip]
>
>A '70 SX huh? Supreme body, hi-comp 455 (maybe, unless it's early
>production and has the 2-bbl turnpike cruiser motor), possibly buckets,

Just for the record, even the 2-bbl SX cars had the 10.25:1 compression in
those 320hp motors; they were different from the 310hp 9.0:1 motors found in
the big-cars. I believe that 1970 (and just the first half, at that) was the
only year for a high-compression 2-bbl 455, though of course the 425 came
with that combination of parts at an earlier date.>
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:51:46 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: Flat top pistons

At 06:48 PM 11/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
Greg

        Yep. They are all still available. Anything from 10.5:1 flat tops to
8.0:1 dishes

Jim Chermack

>
>I was just wondering about this... does anyone know what is generally
>available in the way of pistons for a 350 Rocket these days? Can you
>choose from different dish depths, flat tops, whatever, in a variety of
>sizes (std., .030, .040, .060, etc.)?
>
>Just me being curious...
>
>Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:59:33 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

At 05:49 PM 11/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
        In the service manuals it says that the oil pressure should not be
below 7 psi at idle. That's WRONG. You should have 10 lbs of oil pressure
for every 1000 RPM above idle. Idle pressures should not dip below 20-25.
Operating temps should not exceed 195-200 degrees on a very hot day. If they
do you have a cooling problem that needs to be addressed.


>I've got a '72 442 with a 350 (50k miles- rebuilt). What should the gauges
>read during normal operation?
>
>
>oil pressure: HotCold
>When cold (giving it gas) it stays about 40 (no gas 30)
>When warm (giving it gas) it stays 30-35 (no gas below 20)
>This one I'm concerned about- Oil full
>
>Voltmeter:
>Temp: (Normal operating temp..200 to 240 I think)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:54:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 70 SX Cutlass

>> A '70 SX huh? Supreme body, hi-comp 455 (maybe, unless it's early
>> production and has the 2-bbl turnpike cruiser motor), possibly buckets,
>
>Would a 2-bbl be a negative for this car?  The car has dual exhuast so
>does that imply a 4-bbl hi-comp engine?

Yes, the early 2-bbl versions (which are, I repeat, high-compression motors)
are the least-desireable SX's. No, a dual-exhaust with cutout bumpers and
trumpets was standard on the SX, even with the 2-bbl HIGH-COMPRESSION motor.

>Well how much was that one going for and what condition was it in.  The

They were asking $3500, but the owner was a bodyman, and the body was
straight. I mean, *very* straight, smooth as a mirror, though I had some
concern about a spot under the rear window (little bit of rust bubbling on
the metal trim on the _inside_ of the rear window. It was a beautiful
silver, with a spotless undercarriage. The only trouble was a non-original
carb (from a '72 350) and only 20psi in cylinder ª5 (ooops!). The owner knew
it was worth that much, and if he didn't sell it (I don't know that he did),
he was going to rebuild the engine and sell it for what it was worth,
probably something in the $6000-$8000 range, depending on if he did some
interior work as well. Oh, yeah, this was a W-32 car as well.

>only
>problem I have with buying this car is that the owner's father told him
>not
>to sell it for under $5,000.  Well this car is no where near the

Ah, I see; he's unable to handle the transaction himself, I suppose, since
he's either:

A) Committed to an institution, since he'd be crazy to expect $5k for that car
 or
B) In prison for trying to rip people off by selling cars for twice what
they're actually worth.

>seem open to another price.  He basically would rather have a bug (yeah
>VW)
>than this car.  Hey who am I to convince him otherwise! :-)

Ah, so I see the price must be due to reason (A)... ;)

If the body is really solid, and the mechanicals are really good, and the
interior only needs a few little pieces, then offer him $3,000.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:53:09 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Hurst 442 info

> > So far, you are in the 442 realm also.  Forgot to mention all this
> > before.  AND, there is a UPC code sticker on the dist. cap.
>
> My 307 "Y" motor follows this same color/sticker code that you are
> refering to, and I see no reason why it would be a "9" marked as a "Y"


It isn't.  The Y engines also used the same thing, and were black.  All
GM corporate engines in the mid-eighties were black, and had UPC
stickers on them.  This is another way to tell what engine it is without
tearing it apart, by looking up the code numbers/letters.  The cool part
is though, the Y engines used roller lifters, and a cam button, where
the 442/Hursts did not.  They still used the flat tappets.  The cam
profiles were different too. As well as the ECM and carb calibrations.
Not THAT much different, but, different.  Also, after 85, the heads were
somewhat more restrictive, for whatever reason.  I guess emission crap.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:07:15 -0800
From: Boogah Wolfe <boogah@en.com>
Subject: Compression improvement

Just wondering if there is a feasable way to increase the compression
ratio on a 72 Olds 350?  Currently it is 8:5 to 1.

Thanks

Joe
72 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:13:44 -0800
From: Boogah Wolfe <boogah@en.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Pontiac parts available for swap]

> I have a correct quadrajet and intake manifold for a 1968 pontiac 400.
> I am looking for the same combo for my 72 Cutlass Supreme.  If anyone
> knows of anyone looking for these parts, I would like to do an even
> swap. If interested please email me at:
> boogah@en.com
>
> Joe
> 72 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:15:59 -0800
From: Boogah Wolfe <boogah@en.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Magazine]

Boogah Wolfe wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the magazine "Musclecar Classics" is still around?
> I believe that it was published by the same crew that does CarCraft.
> Also, any other mags that deal strictly with restoration of classic/
> muscle cars?
>
> Any advice appreciated
>
> Thanks
> Boogah@en.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 97 23:29:57 -0400
From: Mike Hall <oldsmike@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Oh, C'mon....

PSROACH442@aol.com writes:
>Hey maybe Mike's "stang" was being pushed by a 4-4-2

You know, I can't think of anything better in life than being
mis-quoted...


Michael R. Hall: OCA ª17903                    Ortonville, Michigan
Home E-Mail: oldsmike@flash.net
The Ever-Growing Oldsmobile Stable:
1971 Oldsmobile 442
1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass S
1987 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Custom Cruiser
1991 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight Royale Broughm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:34:05 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Magazine]

At 11:15 PM 11/23/97 -0800, you wrote:

        They have been bought out by Muscle Cars two or three years ago..

Jim Chermack

>Boogah Wolfe wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know if the magazine "Musclecar Classics" is still around?
>> I believe that it was published by the same crew that does CarCraft.
>> Also, any other mags that deal strictly with restoration of classic/
>> muscle cars?
>>
>> Any advice appreciated
>>
>> Thanks
>> Boogah@en.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:35:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Edel. heads quandry

My speculation/opinion is that there is some kind of legal issue with
putting these heads on the 68/69 400 motors.  Maybe the lowered compression
will negate most of the performance gain from the heads?  If so, if an
owner came back to Edelbrock complaining that the performance gains weren't
there, they could point at the list of excluded applications and say that
the user had not used them on an approved application and therefore they
need not stand by any performance guarantee. Erik Nowacki
==================================
OK, fine, then why would not the EARLY 400's be excluded, too. Sorry, but
there's just NO difference that the '68-9 W30's had [shoot, even if we expand
it to the whole gamut of 68-9 400 motors] that NO other Olds motor had that
might come into play.
cc: ruled out by other 400 motor being OK
valve sizes: Nope factory 68-9 W30's used D heads with the big valves.
Lower compression: see "cc" above.
 etc. etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:39:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: egr vs air

unless i understood it incorrectly, it's time to suggest some rewording
in the FAQ section on bryceman's olds page under "head porting" -  you
and several others claim that it IS an EGR hump.

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
>snip<
If, in fact this "bump" has nothing to do with EGR, does that mean it
could be on non EGR heads as well? More specificly, would my 69 350
with ª5 heads have this bump? I don't have the A.I.R. system.
Mick Gillespie
=================
"You" who? Not I. Maybe the FAQ section got reworded after it left my hands, or
someone else contributed that part. I have taught this stuff, I read the
service manuals recreationally. I have never confused the two.

Yes, I spent a lot of time on my first porting exercise grinding the bumps out
of a set of ª5 heads. C's have 'em, too. B's, etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:48:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: mod'd 57 @ cent'l

Subject: Re: 57 phantom
the 57 i refer to in the magazine picture is an altered wheelbase, radical
custom 2 seat, no door, corvette style top 57, know anything about that
one?    47rocket98
===========================
Yep. Whattya want to know?

Built by a guy who lived about 10 houses down from me when I was younger [I was
gonna say "growing up", but...] That'd be Mr. Bob Prince. His son Robert Prince
has a 68 H/O, lives here in Lansing. I watched the car progress from a shell to
pretty much what you saw there. I recall them test driving it up & down Coulson
Ct. That family and their antics was very instrumental in getting me interested
in such stuff. Me, and a lot of others I daresay. I had often wondered what
became of the car, and was VERY pleased to see it out and about again. Quite a
beast! I think it was his son Tim, with whom I went to school, who got it out
and refreshed it for the show. Bob Sr. finally came up off his 3x2 intake setup
at the swapmeet, too. I had always dreamed of buying it from him IF he would
sell it, one of a couple in town. Then I 'found' mine, and my brother got a
deal on his, so the pressing need passed. I think I have Bob Sr.'s phone ª here
if you want to talk to the man himself.

Who was it here who said, "with a torch and a welder, and a little paint & body
filler, all things are possible" or similar...? How very well exemplified in
this custom car. I had a ride in it way back when, just after the bright green
metallic paint was applied...
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:53:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: freon

By the way first have the person who will recharge your system
capture the R-12 thats still in the system first.
=============
That kinda makes me wonder... at Ol' Chuck's Garage, we would often extract
R-12 from systems, put it into a storage tank. Later, when the other tank ran
dry, swap & use the recycled stuff. Yet, the customers got charged $50 a lb.
for what was used, and I wonder if they ever GOT $50 a lb. back if their system
was just evacuated and then turned out to be too expensive to fix...? What
happens to all them dollars?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:54:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Oldsnut@aol.com
Subject: Re: 10.50 ET 70 Cutlass?

In a message dated 97-11-22 13:59:13 EST, you write:

<< > Maybe the list guys can give me tips on how to get my car quicker!  It

 Yeah I have a suggestion.  Run the car down a steep hill! :-) :-) :-)
  >>

Heh!  I think I remember a Car Craft or Hot Rod that got a stock Caddy
running 12s.  The key was that all of the sheet metal and glass was
removed!!!

Paul Pate
Mechanical Design Engineer
Port Neches, Texas
70 Cutlass S (350-4V, TH-350, 12-bolt 3.08)
84 Camaro (305-4V, TH-700, 10-bolt 3.08)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:57:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: edel. dips

Instead of guessing why Edelbrock excluded those engines why not just send
them a e-mail asking why they did. Who knows they might just tell you why.
Daren
- ------------------------------

Deusedly clever, Daren. Now, if their web page only had a friggin' PLACE TO DO
THAT, I woulda just done that 'steada bitchin here!
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: car rarity

Subject: Re: 3-on-the-tree C/S Ragtop

 I'm sure this is a rare car, usually F-85 inline 6 cyl but Sup Conv  Rare
Rare Rare

I have a 72 Supreme Coupe 350  4v , A/C,  AM/FM, Bucket seats 3-on-the-tree
and thats rare.   Everett
=====================
Yeah, every 3-speed car you ever see advertised says "rare!" in the ad... let's
think, hmmmmm, why are they rare? 'Cause not many folks ordered one like
that..... OK, why is that?   Maybe because there were better packages at modest
increase in cost? Eh?

Yep, the 3-speed is fully drivable. Heck, in the early days of autos, that was
de rigeur. I had a 3speed behind by Olds motor in my 65 Chevy truck, worked
great until I tore out 2nd gear with a harsh downshift. That drivetrain came
right out of a '64 Cutlass or F-85, btw. Long gone.

And, my car is sooooooo rare....  [How rare IS it?]
Said to be one of a mere 43 [forty three] 68 W30 convertibles that came with
the Auto Trans. Most folks (the other 170?? or so) of course opted for the
4-speed MT.


Next....
And, my car is sooooooo rare....  [How rare IS it?]

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:30:48 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: Build Sheet - Where

> > seems to have been a favorite of Olds... would be under and behind the
> > base of the back seat.  Another spot (this was where my build sheet in
> > my '84 was located) would be in the bottom of the front seat (mine was
> > in the passenger seat... I've got buckets/console).  Another 2 places
> > that you might check would be in the driverside door somewhere and
> > taped to the top of the gas tank (pray it's not in this location
> > because if so, it will probably be so brittle as to be basically dust.

        Great, thanks, Clayton.  Like I said, I haven't really had this car
apart too much, neither did my bro....we've had the driver's door panels
off, but I didn't see anything (maybe have to check a bit better?) and we've
had the rear seat base out, and I didn't see anything there either.  Is
there any way to tell if there's one on top of the gas-tank without dropping
the tank?  Also, are they just sheets left out in the open, or are they
encased in anything, or covered with anything?  I'm assuming that they're
just left out by themselves because of your statement about them being
brittle if on top of the tank, but hey...ya never know.  I think I once
heard someone say they found it behind the headliner...is this possible?  Oh
well...I'll have to yank the seats out yet and see what I come up with I
guess.  Thanks again, Clay.
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:30:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: where to attach gages

From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
I have a 1972 Cutlass S.  I would like to know where I put the Oil
Pressure Gauge.  The engine is a 350 Small block, and it has a
Elderbrock Performer 350 Olds Intake Manifold.  Also, where would I put
the Water Temp gauge?   Erik B.
==================
I'm guessing you wanted to know where the sensor goes. Oil pressure sender hole
was probably that "shiny bolt" at driver's end of the 'weird ª' location you
told us about. Rest has been covered well, I think.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:34:23 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: Build Sheet - Where?

> >         As my signature states, I've got a '76 Cutlass Supreme
> > Brougham.  It has had a few owners, my brother being the previous owner,
> > and I know he did not know of any build sheet for the car.  As far as I
> I found mine under the carpet behind the drivers seat. You have to take
> off the Fischer plate first. I have a section on my web page about my
> build sheet in case you're interested...
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html

        K, thanks, Matt...I'll check it out, and thanks for the reply.
Although it's yet another place to look, it is at least another place that it
could actually be.  Thanks again, Matt.
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:27:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re:Oldsmobiles Available

>Yesterday I stopped by the Pick-a-part at Kramer/Glassel off the 91 in
Anaheim.
>
>Lisa, I'm sure you know it well!  They just got in a green 70 Toro which is
>pretty much all there except for the carb.  Has E heads (BV ???).  Also a 75

Unless it's a GT, they're the small-valve E-heads.

Is the interior green as well? Those parts might work in my '69 Toronado.

>Cutlass coupe with buckets, console, and a 350.  Straight, complete body.  
Also
>a 74 Eldo convertible with a complete top mechanism which ought to interchange
>with mid 70's D88 convertibles.

Really, the E-body mechanism was the same as the C-body mechanism?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:27:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

>I've got a '72 442 with a 350 (50k miles- rebuilt). What should the gauges
>read during normal operation?
>
>oil pressure: HotCold
>When cold (giving it gas) it stays about 40 (no gas 30)
>When warm (giving it gas) it stays 30-35 (no gas below 20)
>This one I'm concerned about- Oil full
                ^^^^^^^^
Which one?

They all sound about within spec, with a regular-spec oil pump.

>Voltmeter:

Usually it should read 13.9 volts.

>Temp: (Normal operating temp..200 to 240 I think)

Well, it'd be better for performance if it was in the 180-200 range, but
with the 195' thermostat, you won't get that low.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:27:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: carbs

>Subject: carbs
>
>Found a couple carbs the other day...
>
>Pre-Quadrajet [Quadrijet?] "4-jet" with tag still attached: 7020006
>
>Anyone know about the "4-jet" carb?

It's for a '62 Chevy; my books only list specific applications back through
'63, but since the '63 327 used a 7023006 4GC, it's quite likely that the
7020006 was used on the '62 327 (the Vette restoration crowd would be the
fanatics to check on with this one; maybe it's worth something to a Vette guy).

>Qjets 7026254 & 7027036
>
>I'm pretty sure the last two are '66 330 run o' the mill and 67 something?

Both are Olds 330 manual-trans carbs, for '66 and '67, respectively. The
'66's all used that carb, but the "036" was for the non-C.C.C., non-A.I.R.
applications.

>Hey, maybe I should take the "254" stamping off the '66 carb & transfer it to 
a
>7028xxx carb, have my 68 W30 carb at long last!

Boy, you're starting to sound like one of those 'Vette guys... ;)
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:27:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Hurst 442 info

>> FYI, if Mike Rothe was giving information specific to the 442 model of
>> 85 thru 87, the Hurst/Olds may be a liitle different. The 84 does have
>> an idle compensator for the A/C.
 [snip]
>As far as drivetrains go, I can assure you that I've had my 85 since
>new, and the carb was an 84 H/O RESTAMP.  In other words, the carb
>number for the year has a "5" overstamping a "4".  It's obvious.  The
>drivetrains in 84 and 85 are exactly alike.  I think they just used some
>left over H/O parts from 84.  Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

A few interesting tidbits I came across:

* Yes, Mike's right, the '84 and '85 carbs differ by only that one digit,
17084554 vs 17085554 (which usually denotes the year of the carb). In fact,
the carb book lists all VIN (9) carbs as "Cutlass-Hurst", from '83 through
'87. So see, they even reused the ASCII code for the manuals... ;)

* The '83 H/O carb was different by two digits: 17083553

* The '86-'87 VIN (9) 442 motors were substantially revised, and the carb
number reflects it: 17086009 (at this point, the Q-jet was in its golden
years, and they didn't even bother changing the numbers for the years
anymore, so there was no "17087009" carb).

* The regular VIN (Y) 307 carb ª for the '86-'88 Cutlass was 17086008.

* The last year for the Q-jet was 1990, on the 307 in the RWD wagons and RWD
Cadillacs. Most of these used carb ª 17088115 (yes, same carb as used on
these since 1988), but there was one exception which will be of interest to
Olds 442 experts:

* Though the VIN (9) 307 was last installed in the Cutlass in the '87 442
with carb ª17086009, the same number carb, and the same VIN (9) 307 was
*then* installed in the '88 "Fleetwood HO" (a Hurst/Olds Fleetwood? ;) and
the '89-'90 Cadillac Brougham. So, the 442 motor lived on until the bitter
end in the Cadillac. Just something to file away for twenty-years down the
road, when those '86-'87 442 restorers are looking for matching-number
carbs, they'll also find them in '88-'90 hearses.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:27:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 3-on-the-tree

> everett,i can't believe this car a factory origional.. 3 on the tree
> in 1977 let me know  jeff...

They kept this setup around through the late-70's. Even the '78-up A-bodies
could be equipped with that setup (that's what the Iraquabu's had, wasn't
it?). I learned to drive on a '77 Vista Cruiser (automatic transmission, not
surprisingly), and often while waiting in the car, I'd read the owner's
manual (over and over and over...). I recall reading about the 3-speed and
5-speed transmissions available in that year, and am quite positive that the
column-shift pattern was outlined for those unfortunate folks who
inadvertently bought a 3-speed column-shift Cutlass, and needed to learn how
to drive one of those...

The car is nearby, but for $3,000? Don't think so...  Rare does not always
equal desireable.

Whatever the case, that ad raised my eyebrows when I first saw it, but I
don't doubt that it's genuine. Who would fake such a thing?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:36:58 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:

> Operating temps should not exceed 195-200 degrees on a very hot day. If they
> do you have a cooling problem that needs to be addressed.


Jim, this is probably a stupid question, but when my 69 350 4bbl, 4spd
Cutlass was running last the temperature guage (aftermarket but no
reason to doubt it's accuracy) would run 220 and up on a hot Alabama day
with the a/c on  it slow traffic.  Would the same temperature range you
mentioned apply to this car also?  Car had 55k on it at the time and ran
great.  It did however 'diesel' when the ignition was turned off.  Other
problem I remember was the starter did not always like to perform as it
should when the motor was hot.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 01:00:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: dishless pistons

Subject: Flat top pistons
The early 400" engines and the 425's have flat top pistons.
Peter/CoupeKing
- ------------------------------

Sorry, but I have dismantled a few of those 425's, they do have dishes in the
piston. Small dishes, but not *no* dishes. To clear up any confusion, I used
the term "Dishless" as opposed to "flat-top" since some folks seem to feel that
they can call a piston "flat top" even if the top is far from flat- having a
dish of some 100 thousandths of an inch deep. Those cc's do add right up!
  Early 400 motors, yes, dishless, like the set I just 'found' recently.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 01:01:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: computer coedes

 After changing the O2 sensor, did you clear the codes?

This is a critical step. Typically, disconnect the battery for a minute.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 01:04:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: c'case breather filter

Subject: Re: Breather elements

Air should be going in through that filter to the engine, not the other way
around.
=================
Ooops, better check that service manual again. *Most* of the time, the aboce is
true. However, at high loads/ high speeds, the engine vacuum is low, and the
blowby is high, and in that case the gasses go the other way thru that pipe &
filter into the air cleaner then into the carb & engine.
  Generating too much blowby?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:12:00 -0700 (MST)
From: bhorn@tnc.com (Beverley Horn)
Subject: tranny question

Hey All,
 I have a question for anyone out there. I have a 1970 Rallye 350. It has a
Hurst 4-speed wide ratio transmission. I was wondering what the difference
is between "Wide Ratio" and "Close ratio" 4-speed transmissions? Which is
better Wide or Close?

Shayne Horn
'70 Rallye350
'85 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 01:15:41 -0500 (EST)
From: CCRR12@aol.com
Subject: Re: JWO...

The first issue of JWO was actually a newsletter sent out to OCA members in
early
1971, six months after the club was organized. The Pinckney brothers authored
this newsletter. I have a copy that was sent out to members in August 1978.

Randy in Okla
57 88 J/2
49 F-1

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:28:14 -0500
From: Lloyd Ferguson <cutlass69@usa.net>
Subject: Floor Mats

I Just finished replacing the carpets in my '69 S convertible and would
like to protect them with some floor mats.  I went to a couple of parts
stores but nothing was really big enough or looked right.  I see a couple
of catalogs which have them for $135 a set (which is more than I paid for
the carpet and underlay).

Has anyone found a nice looking set of plain jane mats that fit and don't
cost an arm and a leg??

Lloyd Ferguson
cutlass69@usa.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:30:29 -0800
From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Re: where to attach gages

Chris Brown Witt wrote:
>
> From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
> I have a 1972 Cutlass S.  I would like to know where I put the Oil
> Pressure Gauge.  The engine is a 350 Small block, and it has a
> Elderbrock Performer 350 Olds Intake Manifold.  Also, where would I put
> the Water Temp gauge?   Erik B.
> ==================
> I'm guessing you wanted to know where the sensor goes. Oil pressure sender
hole > was probably that "shiny bolt" at driver's end of the 'weird ª' location
you > told us about. Rest has been covered well, I think. > -- > Chris  B. Witt
:=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI] > *the* Rocket
Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

Chris,

Your right, that ª isn't right.  It is 395558.  I couldnt remember it
when I was writing the message and I looked on this old sales receipt
and it gave me that bogus number. So then, how do I tell wether or not
it is the original engine?  Thanks for your help. This List has given me
more help than anything else.

Erik

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:31:59 -0800
From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

If you could, what would be the readings for a '72 Cutlass S.  It has a
350 small block.  Thanks.

Erik B.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:40:15 -0800
From: Erik Badzinski <erikreb@netbridge.net>
Subject: Oil Pan

Hi,

I got another annoying question.  The oil pan on my cutlass has a
big-a** dent in it, pushing it up.  Is there any way I could take off
the oil pan without having to raise the engine?  Thanks,

Erik B.
72 Cutlass S

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 01:48:51 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: edel. dips

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
>
>Deusedly clever, Daren. Now, if their web page only had a friggin' PLACE TO
DO
>THAT, I woulda just done that 'steada bitchin here!
>--


Ask and you shall receive http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mobbs/edelbrock.html
I asked on 11/21 at 12:31 pm. No answer yet.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:08:47 +1030
From: "Scott " <scott@tplex.com.au>
Subject: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover

Attention all Oldsmobile loving guys & gals I need your help.

I am currently in risk of dying of embarassment. I am currently leading
this months car show but could be over taken (in the last week) by a 1980
Rover 3500 !!!!! (4.6% vs 4.2%)

Pleeeeeeeese take a look and vote OLDS.

http://auto4world.com/interactive-car-show/november/showroom3.html

Scott   :-)

Ps. I'm not a bad sport, I dont mind loosing, but not to a bl**dy Rover
pleeese.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:40:39 -0500 (EST)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: 3-on-the-tree C/S Ragtop...me too,not a rag though.........

my 67 f-85 was also 3 on the tree, 2dr, 330 2bl, p/s, tinted glass, thats
it!!!!
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 04:52:10 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: 70 SX Cutlass

Robert Barry wrote:

> Yes, the early 2-bbl versions (which are, I repeat, high-compression motors)
> are the least-desireable SX's. No, a dual-exhaust with cutout bumpers and
> trumpets was standard on the SX, even with the 2-bbl HIGH-COMPRESSION motor.

Have to check this one out then.

> interior work as well. Oh, yeah, this was a W-32 car as well.

What makes it a W-32?

> Ah, I see; he's unable to handle the transaction himself, I suppose, since
> he's either:

I think he is misinformed.  You know how helpful family/friends can be
when it
comes to selling something.  If they think it is worth a lot then they
should
open up their pocket books.  A different story then occurs if you know
what I
mean.

> Ah, so I see the price must be due to reason (A)... ;)

Ah, could be! :-)

> If the body is really solid, and the mechanicals are really good, and the
> interior only needs a few little pieces, then offer him $3,000.

I guess I am a bit on the cheap side, however, $3,000 still is more than
what
I think the car is worth.  Especially without opening up the engine
compartment.
I did run by and peeked at the car again last night and noticed that the
seats
had probably been recovered at some time in the past.  A little chrome
welting
pieces was coming off the dash.  It did have a sports steering wheel.
According
to the owner he thinks, but is not sure, that the car has 165K miles.
The paint
is either worn, or is flaking off in other areas.  The bumpers did look
ok.

When I get more particulars I'll post to the list.

What should I be on the look out for?


Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:04:18 -0500
From: Miguel Morales <miguel.morales@mci.com>
Subject: Hurst 442 Info

Hey Mike, (Roth) . I'll look for that interior switch, but I think it is
computer controlled. Other recent post here also suspects computer
controlled off the TPS switch. The black switch I was thinking of was
one exteriorly mounted on the intake manifold near the accelerator
linkage that has a round black piece and a copper or steel colored case.
The full throttle position depresses the black rod on the switch. But
I've only seen this on non-ecm carbs.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:40:59 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover

Scott wrote:
>
> Attention all Oldsmobile loving guys & gals I need your help.
>
> I am currently in risk of dying of embarassment.
> Ps. I'm not a bad sport, I dont mind loosing, but not to a bl**dy Rover
> pleeese.

Isn't there a Clayton Pierce on the Olds list?  If so, could it be the
same one that sent in the Rover?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:56:40 -0500
From: david wyatt <Wyatt_David_L@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Re: need h*lp with Manual Trans swap

Matt Cremean wrote:
> Is it possible to swap a WD stamped '73 M-20 wide ratio Muncie with a >KA
stamped '70 M-21 close ratio into a '73 Cutlass? Like, are they a >direct swap
or is there going to have to be some fabrication involved? It should be a
direct swap, but......... Read on.

> Is it also possible to make an M-20 an M-21 by just replacing some >stuff 
like
gears, or are they completely different? The
only difference between a M-20 and a M-21 is the gear on the input shaft and
it's partner gear on the counter shaft.  All of the other gears are identical.
The difference in ratios is done by this initial ratio as all except 4th go
through the counter shaft.  4th is a direct coupling of the input and output
shafts.  If you want to convert a M-20 wide ratio to a M-21, close ratio, all
you need to do is swap out the input shaft and matching counter shaft, aka
cluster gear, with the close ratio parts.  You can also go the other direction
if you wish.  Early Muncies had a 5/8 shaft that runs through the counter 
shaft.
The later ones used a 3/4 shaft with more bearing surface.  The change was made
in the late 60s.  Most Muncies found are the later version.  The early models
seem to be scarce.  Probably from abuse!

> Can you still buy brand new Muncie's that will fit a car like mine?

They have been out of production since the mid 70s.  Borg Warner T-10s
took up the slack.  They can be swapped in place of a Muncie with a few
accessory upgrades like the shifter and possibly a clutch disk.

Muncie also manufactured a M-22, aka Rock Crusher.  It was a close ratio
like the M-21.  The differences are, more splines on the input shaft,
straighter cut gears, and a Turbo 400 size output shaft.

They also made a hybrid with M-22 input and internals while keeping the
M-20/21 output shaft.  My cousin has one is his '72, low mile, one
owner, all original ss350 sh*tvelle.  He ordered the car new with an
M-21 and this is what it came with.  He found the odd ball tranny when
he replaced the clutch.  It is the only one he or myself have ever ran
across, by then 4 speeds were getting rare.  Therefore it is possible
that you could find one of these in a '72 or newer car.

All in all Muncies are fairly "swap friendly".  One other thing though,
most Muncies have the speedo cable on the drivers side (left) of the
tail shaft.  My Olds has it on the passenger (right) side.  Ch*vy and
Pontiac used the left side style.  I don't know what Buick used.  The
housing can be swapped for your application.

A good souce for 4 speed parts of all make is:
Southside Auto Parts
1710 East 29th St
Muncie, IN
47302
Telephone: 765-284-5456

Disclaimer:
All of the above is based on my limited experience and may not hold
water.

Dave Wyatt
70  4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:03:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Donald B Cart <dcart@micro.ti.com>
Subject: quad 4 experiences

Shaun,

 Let me introduce myself as an  unhappy quad4 owner, with regard to
quality. I have a '91 Calias I Series with the HO quad 4. Still looks
nice inside and out and runs ok w/ ~82k miles. But, when the car about
55k miles, I visited the mechanice more times than I'd like to admit.
Here goes... drivers side and passengers side power window motor, shocks
and struts, muffler, catylitic converter, ps pump, steering unit, alternator,
ignition module (twice), front motor mount, timing chain gasket, 5th/reverse
shifter cable, rear side aero wings mounting fastners don't last more than
a year before breaking, ... This is just of the top of my head. I have all
receipts at home and have pampered this car from day 1. I have a friend with
a '90 Grand Am with the regular quad 4 and he's had very similar problems
with his car, so I don't think I'm unique :(

 Any others with similar problems ?

Don
'91 Calais (HO quad4)

>
> I havent met a disatisfied quad 4, calais owner as far as quality goes.
> Gm seemed to hit the spot with this car.  I just want to know why gm made
>
> shaun
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:15:44 -0500
From: IRONMAN <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: quad 4 experiences

Come on now Don


Sounds like you found yourself a bored mechanic, and he took advantage of your
situation a little, i have an 88 grand am, and never

changed most of the things you have, for petes sake i took the original exhaust
pipe off after some 100 K miles and it was still good. yes i went thru a few
mufflers, and struts at around 125K mi. never of that other stuff.


PS warning for today is beware of bored mechanics. they can render you broke.


Anon



>Shaun,

>

> Let me introduce myself as an  unhappy quad4 owner, with regard to

>quality. I have a '91 Calias I Series with the HO quad 4. Still looks

>nice inside and out and runs ok w/ ~82k miles. But, when the car about

>55k miles, I visited the mechanice more times than I'd like to admit.

>Here goes... drivers side and passengers side power window motor, shocks

>and struts, muffler, catylitic converter, ps pump, steering unit, alternator,

>ignition module (twice), front motor mount, timing chain gasket, 5th/reverse

>shifter cable, rear side aero wings mounting fastners don't last more than

>a year before breaking, ... This is just of the top of my head. I have all

>receipts at home and have pampered this car from day 1. I have a friend with

>a '90 Grand Am with the regular quad 4 and he's had very similar problems

>with his car, so I don't think I'm unique :(

>

> Any others with similar problems ?

>

>Don

>'91 Calais (HO quad4)

>

>>

>> I havent met a disatisfied quad 4, calais owner as far as quality goes.

>> Gm seemed to hit the spot with this car.  I just want to know why gm made

>>

>> shaun

>>

>

>

<center><paraindent><param>out,out</param>Jeff Verkleeren

<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Scholar -- Gentleman  --  Judge
of Beautiful Women and Fine Whiskey

</color></bold></paraindent>Mechanical Engineering

Penn State University

</center>mailto:jev114@psu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:00:38 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1970 Rallye 350/  grills?

what grills do you need?   steven.  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 10:32:53 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Door Locks

..Can you make keys using the existing door locks?  Or can you still
get new locks keyed the same as the ignition key?  Any suggestions.

     Yes and yes.  The existing locks should have a 4-character
     alphanumeric code stamped on the side of the lock cylinder (you'll
     need to remove the cylinder from the door to see this).  Any GM dealer
     can punch a new key from this code.

     Locks can also be re-keyed, but you'll need to have this done by a
     locksmith.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 10:27:21 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Winter Project Dreams


..One of the things I've thought about for awhile is to replace the
2-speed Jetaway with a TH350...

     Greg, I've done this swap on a friend's 68 F-85.  Answers follow:

Physically are the 2 trannies the same length? Or would I need a
replacement or shortened driveshaft?

     Trannies are the same length - it's a bolt-in.  Driveshaft fits
     unaltered, however I don't recall if the front yoke needed to be
     changed.  I don't think it did, but better check to be sure.

The Jetaway uses a TH400-style kickdown switch while the TH350 uses a
cable. Anyone know what's involved in retrofitting one of these?

     Get the carb bracket from the donor car (assuming it is also at
     Q-jet).  The bracket from TH-350 cars have provisions for both the
     throttle cable and the kickdown cable.  It all bolts up easily.

What about linkages? Mine's a column shift car. I know I would need a new
speedo if I wanted the indicator to make sense.

     The speedo is the least of your problems.  Your gear selector detent
     plate in the steering column only has two forward positions, D and L.
     Two choices are 1) get a column (or detent plate - but changing the
     whole column is probably easier) from a TH-400 car, or 2) accept the
     fact that you'll only be able to select D and S manually.  Tranny will
     work fine, you just won't be able to manually select L.  This is what
     my friend did.  Of course, you can live with the Jetaway detent plate
     for now and change it at any time in the future.

     It's been a while since I did the swap, but I don't remember having to
     do anything special with the linkage.  His car also had a column shift
     and I'm pretty sure it bolted right up.

Are there mitaswells I should do if the tranny is out?

     U-joints come to mind.  E-brake cables need to be disconnected, so
     inspect at a minimum.  You'll also have to get the exhaust out of the
     way, so look at it at the same time.  May want to consider an external
     trans cooler if you don't already have one.  Shift kit?

     Also, be sure to check the torque on the flexplate-to-crank bolts
     while the trans is out.  Also visually inspect for cracks around these
     bolts.

Anything else I should know? Speedo cables, etc.?

     As I said above, this is pretty much a bolt-in.  I seem to recall that
     the speedo cable bolted right up also.  My friend pulled up at my
     house on a Sunday morning, and drove away with the TH-350 installation
     completed by late afternoon.  One last piece of advice:  spend the
     money to rent a transmission jack.  This is absolutely the only way to
     replace an automatic from underneath.  It's worth every penny.  Also,
     get the car as high as safely possible before starting the trans R&R.

Winter is good for dreaming, if nothing else... :)

     True.  Good luck.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 10:41:50 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: Race to the finish --> 60 Olds vs 80 Rover

.I am currently in risk of dying of embarassment. I am currently leading
this months car show but could be over taken (in the last week) by a 1980
Rover 3500 !!!!!

     Well, if it's any consolation, at least the Rover is powered by the
     old 215 cu in BOP aluminum V-8!

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:19:13 -0800
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: car rarity

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> And, my car is sooooooo rare....  [How rare IS it?]
> Said to be one of a mere 43 [forty three] 68 W30 convertibles that came with
> the Auto Trans. Most folks (the other 170?? or so) of course opted for the
> 4-speed MT.

:-)

> Next....
> And, my car is sooooooo rare....  [How rare IS it?]

My '84 H/O is rare because it's one of about 1000 that *doesn't* have T-tops.
About 2500 more had T-tops.  Of course, this makes it *less* valuable to most
people.  At first I was bummed, but after hearing all the leak/squeak/chassis
flex horror stories I think I'm glad I don't have them.  Maybe if it were a 
nice
weather car only. . .

And then there's my '78 with the rare factory Chevy engine and the TH-200.
(Crowd: "Oooooh!").

To the person who was swapping the 455 into the truck, I'm a bit slow to reply,
but see my tagline.  I didn't do the swap, it was there in place of the diesel
when we got the truck, but if there's anything I can check let me know.  This 
is
an excellent truck engine.  One thing to watch, the diesels usually have
numerically low rear gears, but that works just fine for me since the olds
engine has such good low end torque, and the truck spends a lot of time on the
highway (camping trips, etc).

I don't see a lot of talk here about the hydroboost brake system that they used
on the diesels.  Our truck still has it, and I rather like it.  More space 
under
the hood (like you need more with a truck), it's been completely reliable and
maintenance free, and I think it has a better pedal feel than vacuum brakes.
This would be a great addition to a car with a big cam, maybe steal it off an
80's Cutlass diesel. - -- Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                          
'84
Hurst/Olds http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                         '78 Cutlass
Supreme Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.              '78 Chev 1/2ton 
(Olds
350)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:21:05 -0600
From: Mike Schlottman <mschlott@rsn.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Advantages of valve size

I belive the two different valve sizes are 2.000 vs 2.070 on the intake
valve.  I got this from the olds FAQ on bricemans page.

mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:35:48 -0500
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: need h*lp with Manual Trans swap

I just went through a tranny swap and the M21 and M20 are the same except for
internal ratios.  If you have a rear gear any lower (numerically) than a 3.23
I'd strongly suggest the wide ratio, M20.  Take offs are noticeably easier on
the clutch.  4th is still the 1:1 so gas mileage won't really differ.

Brand new Muncies are no longer available.  There are many guys rebuilding
them.  Check Hemmings.  I got mine from Bill Saul in CA for $600.  He did a
good job but the speedo is all wrong now.  As to interchangeability with 73
units, I doubt it.  As part of my swap I had to replace the clutch fork.  At
least one place offered the 73 fork but it does NOT fit pre-72 apps.  So the
bell housings are definitely different between the years and that would suggest
different trannys as well.



oldsmobile-owner@ccn.cs.dal.ca on 11-23-97 04:39:10 PM
Please respond to oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ internet
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca @ internet
cc:
Subject: need h*lp with Manual Trans swap


Is it possible to swap a WD stamped '73 M-20 wide ratio Muncie with a KA
stamped '70 M-21 close ratio into a '73 Cutlass? Like, are they a direct
swap or is there going to have to be some fabrication involved?

Is it also possible to make an M-20 an M-21 by just replacing some stuff
like gears, or are they completely different?

What are the differences between a '73 CS with a manual (like the
beautiful triple black specimin I saw at Lansing) and it's automatic
brother?

Can you still buy brand new Muncie's that will fit a car like mine?

Whew, thank you!!!!
- --
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoft*\ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************


*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:41:10 PST
From: "Brent Pinkstaff" <fear_of_tomorrow@hotmail.com>
Subject: Reponse

This was e-mailed privately, but  I decided that I would foreward it and
my response to the list:

>Im old enough to drink and im old enough to drive the q4 that will blow
>the doors off of your car!!  So are all the other q4 guys.  How much do
>you want me to beat you by, ill give you a 50' head start punk!  I
think
>There wouldnt be a problem with us guys if people like you didnt write
>smart emails.
>
>see you at the finish line
>
>

You are still missing the point. I don't care how fast your car is. I
don't think anyone does. The reason that I question your age is the fact
that you won't shut up. You won't take a hint. Several people have
responded as politely as they can. This list is not to talk about how
much other cars suck, or how much ALL other cars suck compared to your
quad-4!
I have only been into Oldsmobiles for a few months. This list has been a
great asset to me. In the few months I have been on this list I have
learned an incredible amount of general and specific information on all
types of Olds. I look foreward to reading the messages everyday. I don't
respond to many of the questions as I haven't been interested in
Oldsmobiles long enough, although I try to help when I can.
You, just one person, have single handedly changed this forum from
Oldsmobile stories and information to a high school bragging session.
You have managed to get underneath everyone's skin enough that very
little useful transmissions have been sent. Take a hint! Send messages
if you have a question or can answer a question for someone.
As far as your car:
Yes, it's faster than mine. It will always probably be faster than mine.
All I have is a 350. I will have a W-31 in the late spring, but I don't
think even that will put me faster than you are.
Are you happy now?! If everyone who's car is slower than yours
personally e-mailed you would you shut up? If so please let everyone
know, I'm sure they would mail you.
I am going to 'block sender' any incoming messages from the list that
mention your name. This may clean up the list enough that I may be able
to enjoy it again. If that doesn't work I guess I will just sign off.
I'm sure that will be no skin off of anyone's ass, but I will miss the
messages.

Sorry gang, had to say it publicly.

Brent Pinkstaff
'70 Cutlass S

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:52:36 -0700 (MST)
From: d houlton x0710 <tc75918@hpnfssvr.mdhc.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: 80's 442/Hust VIN decoding

mrada wrote:
>
> d houlton x0710 wrote:
> >
> > and lightning rods though.  I just wanted the VIN decoding to make sure.
>
> Huh? Lightning rods?  What are those in the context of this discussion?
> I keep envisioning a long piece of metal eminating from the roof of the
> car
> to catch lightning bolts. :-)  That can't be right! :-)
>
> Let me know...
>
> Chris Sparks


Hurst Lightning Rods are a 3 lever gear shift.  The main lever selects
P through OD and D.  Next to it is a lever for 2nd and then another for
1st.  You can drive normally just by putting the main lever in D, or you
can manually control the shifts using the levers for 2nd and 1st.

A Hurst/Olds only item.

- --Dan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:58:22 -0500
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: '72 442 oil pressure, voltage and temp gauges...?'s

I think you're being too conservative. The Olds 71 shop manual says that the
temp idiot light comes on at 243 deg, which says to me that you can safely
operating the engine at at least 230 deg all day long.  Of course, the temp
would depend alot on the temp of the thermostat you're using.


>Operating temps should not exceed 195-200 degrees on a very hot day. If they
>do you have a cooling problem that needs to be addressed.

Todd Morris
71 442

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:18:42 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Reponse

Brent Pinkstaff wrote:

> Sorry gang, had to say it publicly.

Uh, Brent, I don't think you have anything to apologize for.  If you've
read my take on this, you know my views on my dog is faster than your
dog routine.  I've gotten to the point that I just hit the delete button
when the topic comes up.  Maybe if we ignore it, it will go away.  Now
if we could figure out how to put a supercharged big block on a go-cart
(complete with Olds logo, of course) everyone would know who's the
fastest.  But then somebody would try to put it on a umicycle to gain a
power to weight advantage.  I agree, enough already, but you don't have
to apologize for me.

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End of oldsmobile-digest V1 ª969
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