To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #935


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, November 3 1997       Volume 01 : Number 935



Re: Amsoil.......Mobil 1?
Re:
Re: 489 HP 307?
Re: 489 HP 307?
Re: 307 performance
australian musle cars?
Re: Re[2]: Halls Salvage
Junk Yard Finds
Re: 307 performance
bolt pattern
big oldsmobiles
big oldsmobiles
350 forged crank?
OCA Web Site correct address
Re: Vista vs. Custom Cruiser (Was:Re: Chris Brown.....)
Re: 307 performance
Re: Split Fire
Re: Split Fire
250 mph Omega
Re: UNBOUNCE: Trans Swap
re: 200-4R less depressed
Re: lost car cover
Re: Split Fire
Re: 307 performance
UNBOUNCE:'69 Shifter/Auto Console Needed
UNBOUNCE: Big Oldsmobiles
Re: Split Fire
Re: 307 performance
Re:
Re: 250 mph Omega
Fisher Body & Shop Manuals
Re: W-41/SCX Clutch Disk
Re:
Re: 307 performance
Re: 489 HP 307?
Re:  Firewall markings
Re: 307 performance
Power Seat Question
Re: 307 performance
Re: car but not Olds related....and then some...........
Re: 250 mph Omega
Re: 307 performance
Re: 1966 Delta 88
Re: 250 mph Omega
Engine specs please.... (was: 489 HP 307?)
Re: New Olds fan needs help
Re: UNBOUNCE: Big Oldsmobiles
Oldsmobiles in movies
Re: Holley Carb.
Re: Halloween Parade duty
Re: 1966 Delta 88
Re: G'day Daniel!!
Re: 70 442 Exhaust
Re: 489 HP 307?
Re: 307 performance
Re: 489 HP 307?
Re: Fisher Body & Shop Manuals
Re: Power Seat Question
Re: Halloween Parade duty
307 w/ 489 BS^H^HHP
68 442 @ trans shop
Re: australian musle cars?
plug diffs testing
extrusion honing
Electrical queries
Edelbrock heads--SEMA
RE: 307 w/ 489 BS^H^HHP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:00:09 -0500 (EST)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: Amsoil.......Mobil 1?

how bout mobil 1??, i have that now in my 94 nissan se-v6 king cab, i plan on
using it in my 86 salon when i get it on the road...
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:04:24 -0500
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re:

Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
>
> Did any of the 442 option cars have 350's??

1980 442's had 350 V8's.  1985-1987 442's had 307's.
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:11:00 -0500 (EST)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: 489 HP 307?

In a message dated 97-11-02 12:19:32 EST, you write:

<<  Sorry, I have to agree, I still have a hard time believing that one
 > myself. I have seen some good engine inovations, but that engine
 > must be made of diamonds or something to handle that kind of HP, not
 > to mention a transmission that could handle an atomic bomb blast. :)
  >>
Imagine those 307's w/ 307y's mods, small block chevy what?,, 5 liter mustang
who.. 1000's of killer 307's roaming the streets!!!!!!!! Now that would be
some serious Rocket Power!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:23:56 -0500 (EST)
From: RCKTPWR@aol.com
Subject: Re: 489 HP 307?

In a message dated 97-11-02 11:02:58 EST, you write:

<<
 Sorry, I have to agree, I still have a hard time believing that one
 myself. I have seen some good engine inovations, but that engine
 must be made of diamonds or something to handle that kind of HP, not
 to mention a transmission that could handle an atomic bomb blast. :)


  >
 > > the 307 imy frine has rides about 2 inchs off teh gtroung also the
little 307
 > > packs a 489 horse power punch before nos and 789 after nos
 >  >>
>lets just say its true, why not apply those same tech to a 455. Also, unless
thats how u make yr living, street racing, why not go to the track and show
off the worlds fastest 307??......just wondering......Bernie!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:19:58 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:

>>>Hey Olds Fans This is the real owner of Olds307Y. Someone who knew me got a
>>>hold of my password and tried to make me look like a fool...(snip)...the
great pain he is >>>feeling right now.

Exactly *how* bad is the pain you're inflicting on this guy...does it
involve a bumper and fifty feet of half-inch rope?  Could we help?

S.D.W.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:34:53 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: australian musle cars?

Glen,

I  was in Perth in 83 or 84 during July.  I realy enjoyed myself while I was
there.  I did see a couple cars while I was down there that might be your
performance cars.  One, if I remeber correct it was orange with black stripes,
and a big decal on the side. The decal was of a Roo.  I think it said Super
Roo on the decal or some thing like that.  The other was a Holden of some
sort. It was a gold or yellow, I thought it had a black hood(bonnet) if I
remeber correct.  Both cars had mag wheels and the performance look.  They
were also 4 door cars.

My father once had a 68 Cutlass S wagon that I realy liked a lot.  It was a
350, 2bbl carb and a 2speed auto.  I currently own an 86 Cutlass 4door, with
the 307/ with 4 speed automatic overdrive.

Welcome to the list and If we can help in some way let us know.  I am still
learning about Olds Rockets myself.


Clarence
86 Cutlass 4dr 307 o/d


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:48:37 -0500 (EST)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Halls Salvage

In a message dated 97-11-02 03:56:43 EST, you write:

>
>  Everett  Horton OCA 1961   1961 Starfire
>                      ^^^^   ^^^^
>                        \     /
>                         \   /
>       OK.  The real question is how did you do this?
>
>       Joe Padavano
>       padavano.joe@orbital.com
>

   My original OCA number was 2514 I've been a member since 1974. I became
good friends with Dennis Casteele over the years, first meeting him in 1980.
Around 1990 I asked him if "1961" was available and he switched my number. He
didn't want anyone told as he was afraid of a ton of phone calls. This among
many other things brings fond memories of Dennis, Bless his Soul.


Everett

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:50:39 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Junk Yard Finds

Hello everyone,

   I went to the local wrecking yard this morning and walked around for a
couple hours.  They realy didnt have a lot of Olds cars out there.  Maybe
around 75 cars.  The only things I did see that might be of any intrest were:

1.  76 Delta 88 w/455  fair interior no major body damage
2.  66 Dynamic 88 no motor good interior light brown/tan indash clock
    fair body(painted with paint roller look) manual mirror outside drive
side(non remote) some surface rust on mirror.
3.  69 98 w/455 poor shape
4.  74 88 convertable w/455 interior shot(looks like top had been down for a
while)  has white top body fair needs front fender and a grill.

most of the olds prower plants out ther where the 307.  i only saw about 7
or 8 455's,  1   403,  about 5 or 6 350's, a few desiels, hardly any v-6's.
I guess most cars from 80 or so on had the 307.

Well that was my day at the treasure hunt.  I was hope to find maybe a
console or a rear end out of a 442 or monte *arlo SS to maybe replace my
2.56's, but no luck yet.

Later folks

Clarence
86 Cutlass  4dr 307 o/d

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:11:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Olds307Y@aol.com
Subject: Re: 307 performance

Right now this guys car is my friends we are beating the shit out of it and
him he jsut has a lot of missing teeth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:50:19 -0700
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: bolt pattern

I was wondering if the wheel bolt pattern on a '70 98 is the same as on a '68
cutlass?

Thanks
      Dustin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:03:34 -0500 (EST)
From: BradRoss79@aol.com
Subject: big oldsmobiles

It is good to hear that there is some intrest in the big car world, after
hearing so much about the cutlass.  I love the big oldsmobiles.  I've got a
71 Delta Custom town sedan and a 71 Delta Royale.  I love them both and they
are a blast to own and drive.
By the way, has anybody out there got a 71 Delta Royale hardtop?  I have seen
a few convertibles, but no hardtops, other than mine.  I drive my Delta
Custom everyday, and it has almost 57,000 miles on it.  I drove it to
lansing, and drove in the motorcade on august 22nd, but I didn't enter it in
the show.

Let's hear some noise from the big rocket fans, I know you are out there!

Brad Ross
OCAª026076
Swartz Creek, MI
1971 Delta Custom 455,  56,930 miles
1971 Delta Royale 455, 77,000 miles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:05:14 -0500 (EST)
From: BradRoss79@aol.com
Subject: big oldsmobiles

It is good to hear that there is some intrest in the big car world, after
hearing so much about the cutlass.  I love the big oldsmobiles.  I've got a
71 Delta Custom town sedan and a 71 Delta Royale.  I love them both and they
are a blast to own and drive.
By the way, has anybody out there got a 71 Delta Royale hardtop?  I have seen
a few convertibles, but no hardtops, other than mine.  I drive my Delta
Custom everyday, and it has almost 57,000 miles on it.  I drove it to
lansing, and drove in the motorcade on august 22nd, but I didn't enter it in
the show.

Let's hear some noise from the big rocket fans, I know you are out there!

Brad Ross
OCAª026076
Swartz Creek, MI
1971 Delta Custom 455,  56,930 miles
1971 Delta Royale 455, 77,000 miles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:34:14 -0500 (EST)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: 350 forged crank?

Was looking at a ~'68-9? vintage Olds 350 engine and noted that the back of
the crank had a 'check' like notch like the forged 400-455 engine cranks
have. Could this be a forged crank in a 350?
Other ID info: ª5 heads, 4-bbl, dual exhausts, original gold color.

thanx
CoupeKing

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 18:32:58 -0500
From: "Bradford W. Nicholson" <brad442@erols.com>
Subject: OCA Web Site correct address

All,
If ya got a link at your web site for the OCA web site, Could you double
check that it goes to:
http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca
You can also "borrow" the OCA logo to go along w/ the link if you want
"ocaclear.gif"

Unfortunately there might be a few people that are using the old address
and newer web sites are also doing the same.  I know everyone can't keep
things up to date on a daily basis (I sure can't) but just double check
please.

The reason is that the site now has frames and uses an index file to
start it up so once people see the "intro" page, they don't see the
other pages either since there are no links (I'll change that Real
soon!)

Don't forget if you're an OCA member, you get a free link from our links
page ;-)  It will be joining the Olds WebRing soon (Jason ;-)
Thanks to everyone w/ links to the OCA Web Site
- --

 ---
| | | Brad Nicholson
| | | 1987 442 W-42
|/|\| 1994 Eight Eight LSS
| | | Oldsmobile Club of America ª18984
 ---  Oldsmobile Centennial Club - MD
e-Mail: brad442@erols.com
Personal Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442
Official OCA Web Site - http://www.erols.com/brad442/oca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:40:16 EST
From: User552217 <User552217@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Vista vs. Custom Cruiser (Was:Re: Chris Brown.....)

i'd like to have a copy of your pic
thanks in advance.
   & happy Oldsmobiling!  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:57:28 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

WOW!

Mick Gillespie, Columbus, Indiana
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm
- -----Original Message-----
From: Olds307Y@aol.com <Olds307Y@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Sunday, November 02, 1997 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: 307 performance


>Hey Olds Fans This is the real owner of Olds307Y. Sopmone who knew me
got a
>hold of my password and tried to make me look like a fol but te only
fool now
>is teh kind that did it because of the great pain he is feeling right
now. I
>and you know there is no way possible to get a 307 to produce 489
horse the
>highest horse rating i heard so far is 300horse with about 400 with
nos. I
>have only had a couple of chances to kick rustang ass but that was
with the
>2.3 turbo versions the V8 are one of the quickest out there. So if
you see
>anything else about the Mysterious 307 with 489 ignore it.
>later gots to go see if the guy finished my trans yet.
>put the pedal to the floor And blow your doors off.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 16:59:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Split Fire

You're not saying that your 307 Cutlass can reach 160 I hope.

On Fri, 31 Oct 1997 Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:

> 83 Cutlass supreme Brougham the reason i know i was gonig this fast was
> because of the mustang that was runnig with me couldn't keep up after a while
> and his after market spedo stops at 160
>

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:00:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Split Fire

I've heard that 307's in stock condition put out between 2300 and 2400
horsepower.  No problem.

On Fri, 31 Oct 1997 evans1@serv01.net-link.net wrote:

> Have you ever run this car at a drag strip?  It must run mid 10's at least,
> doesn't it? ;-)
>
>
> >83 Cutlass supreme Brougham the reason i know i was gonig this fast was
> >because of the mustang that was runnig with me couldn't keep up after a 
while
> >and his after market spedo stops at 160
> >
> >
>
>
> Mike Evans
> Richland, MI
> evans1@net-link.net
>
>

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:03:54 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: 250 mph Omega

Yeah, my 84 Omega tops out at almost 250.  AND it has 780,000 miles on it.
No problem.

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 19:14:45 EST
From: ejhufnagel@juno.com (Edward J. Hufnagel)
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Trans Swap

On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:59:50 -0500 (EST) Cnvrtbl442@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 97-11-02 07:12:03 EST, you write:
>
><< The transmission will be a 200-R4 and I think the OD ratio is .67.
>If
> this is correct then if I install a 4.11 ring & pinion would the
>final
> ratio be 2.51?
>  >>
>4..11 times .67 comes out to 2.76
>

          If you ask me, I would say the final ratio would be 4.11.
Changing the gears in the trani doesn't change the fact that the pinion
gear has to turn 4.11 times to turn the ring gear once.
          I was always taught that the higher gears in the trani saved on
the high rpm's on the engine thereby creating better mpg.
         Someone correct me if my way of thinking is wrong please.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:12:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: re: 200-4R less depressed

THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU

Correct, the TH350 was isntalled with the engine.

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:14:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: lost car cover

If they're seen in Tucson, they'll be shot.

On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Chris Brown
Witt wrote:

> Jees, this weekend IS Halloween!  I hope the Cutlass doesn't get tricks or
> treats out in the parking lot.  I found out last weekend, when I went home,
> that evidently, someone thought THEIR car needed MY car cover more than MY
> car needed it!  I'd like to have it this weekend...
> ===============
>
> While I was living in an apt in CA, some jers stole my Covercraft car cover.
> Cut the lock off and took it. It was common, if not required, to mark the
car's > license plate number on the car cover so that anyone could check the >
registration is up to date I guess... I had made an exact duplicate of my >
black-n-gold plates with fabric paint. Extra touch... and still they snagged >
it. So, if anyone sees a covercraft cover with painted CA plate YJH837 [I 
still >
remember that number!] let me know, eh? It might still be there around the >
Sacramento- Davis- S.F. area. > > -- > Chris  B. Witt :=:
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI] > *the* Rocket
Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442... >

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:19:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Split Fire

On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:

> my friends 307 is a rockect ship only wish i had it but my olds jsut looks
> the same but it has about 489 horse before nos and about 789 after nos
>

Yeah.

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:20:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:

> the 307 imy frine has rides about 2 inchs off teh gtroung also the little 307
> packs a 489 horse power punch before nos and 789 after nos
>

Yep, uh huh.


Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:32:53 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE:'69 Shifter/Auto Console Needed

Reply directly to him if you can help...

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:Patrick Derkacz <patrickd@wwnet.net>
Reply-To: patrickd@wwnet.net
Subject: Re:wanted '69 auto console and shifter
well the turbo 400 has been swapped in for the demolished 4 spd, all I
need to get on the road is a shifter and console.  If anyone has one
they would part with, preferably in metro detoit area, let me know

patrickd@wwnet.com
'69 442 conv.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:35:32 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: Big Oldsmobiles

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:BradRoss79@aol.com
To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: big oldsmobiles
Return-Path: <oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>

It is good to hear that there is some intrest in the big car world, after
hearing so much about the cutlass.  I love the big oldsmobiles.  I've got a
71 Delta Custom town sedan and a 71 Delta Royale.  I love them both and they
are a blast to own and drive.
By the way, has anybody out there got a 71 Delta Royale hardtop?  I have seen
a few convertibles, but no hardtops, other than mine.  I drive my Delta
Custom everyday, and it has almost 57,000 miles on it.  I drove it to
lansing, and drove in the motorcade on august 22nd, but I didn't enter it in
the show.

Let's hear some noise from the big rocket fans, I know you are out there!

Brad Ross
OCAª026076
Swartz Creek, MI
1971 Delta Custom 455,  56,930 miles
1971 Delta Royale 455, 77,000 miles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:27:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Split Fire

Hey this guy's telling the truth!  He's got a vacuum advance distributor.
That must be the secret!  I've been looking for a simple way to add
another 339 HP.  Yes!



On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 97-11-01 22:40:08 EST, you write:
>
> << I have no time slips i race on the side with friends from the auto trade.
> But
>  i tell you now my car is not as stock as it seems i have no computer my carb
>  is a mechanical q-jet i hav e a vacum advance distrbutor accel super hei
> coil
>  also plugs are gapped at .060  head work and i control lock up on the
>  converter also i have 2.73 gear posi. i have been estimated at sped excess
> of
>  160 on the New Jersey Turnpike also custum made ram air >>
>
> I would  be curious to know if you have a Tachometer in the car and what
> RPM you are turning at 160+.........TIM
>

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:29:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:

> it's olds block the rest is my creation

>


 OK God.


Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 19:35:44 -0500
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Re:

Jason Adcock wrote:
>
> Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Did any of the 442 option cars have 350's??
>
> 1980 442's had 350 V8's.  1985-1987 442's had 307's.

Let's not forget that the '72 442 came standard with a 350.

- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 19:39:02 EST
From: ejhufnagel@juno.com (Edward J. Hufnagel)
Subject: Re: 250 mph Omega

On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:03:54 -0700 (MST) Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU> writes:
>Yeah, my 84 Omega tops out at almost 250.  AND it has 780,000 miles on
>it.
>No problem.
>
>Ray in the desert
>87 409 Cutlass
>
>


         I got all you guys beat. My Tecumseh 14 horse horizontal shaft
lawn mower puts out 7000 h.p. and constantly beats F**raris and L*tuses
and only uses 1/4 tank of gas. Amazing what a little shop work will do!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 19:41:54 -0500
From: Kurt Heinrich <old442@erols.com>
Subject: Fisher Body & Shop Manuals

Came accross a number of body and shop manuals.  All of them are
originals.
If you're interested in them, e-mail me directly.

1967 Fisher Body Manual        $20
1969 Fisher Body Manual        $20
1973 Fisher Body Manual        $20
1974 Fisher Body Manual        $20
1975 Fisher Body Manual        $20
1983 Fisher Body Manual        $20

1955 Oldsmobile Shop Manual    $35
1969 Buick Shop Manual         $25

The above prices DO NOT include shipping.
- --
Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 19:54:54 -0500 (EST)
From: DGMCEWEN@aol.com
Subject: Re: W-41/SCX Clutch Disk

Are you using the original SCX tranny, or the Grand Am's? The SCX uses a
different clutch set-up, which includes a hydralyic (sp?) pump, not cable.
This was not used on any other car, including the '91 W41 442. I used the
stock clutch in my SCX for 90k miles, and this included 20 drag strip passes.
My car was slightly modified, I.E. K&N filter, Flowmasters, Mobil 1, etc, and
never had any problems, up to & including the day I sold the car. Hope this
helps, Doug

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 20:01:25 -0500
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re:

Kurt Heinrich wrote:
>
> Jason Adcock wrote:
> >
> > Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Did any of the 442 option cars have 350's??
> >
> > 1980 442's had 350 V8's.  1985-1987 442's had 307's.
>
> Let's not forget that the '72 442 came standard with a 350.

The original post (way back when...) asked about 84 and later models.  So,
I was referring to the G-Body 442's ;-)
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:38:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 307 performance

In a message dated 97-11-02 13:44:47 EST, you write:

<< From:Olds307Y@aol.com

 Hey Olds Fans This is the real owner of Olds307Y. Sopmone who knew me got a
 hold of my password and tried to make me look like a fol but te only fool
now
 is teh kind that did it because of the great pain he is feeling right now.
<snip> So if you see anything else about the Mysterious 307 with 489 ignore
it.
 later gots to go see if the guy finished my trans yet.
 put the pedal to the floor And blow your doors off. >>

When is everybody going to quit coddling this kid and his lies and set him
straight on some list etiquette and some reality.  I could really go on here
and cut loose with my opinion but I think everybody pretty much has had
the same thoughts about this and have just ben to polite to call this one as
we really see it.

I have enclosed the profile from AOL for "Olds307Y" for anyone who might
be interested.  Mark, this is a great place to make Olds friends, but ya need
to show a little respect.

Member Name:Mark In Mother Fu@ken J.C. aka Chill Town
Location:Jersey City Fool!!!!!!!!
Birthdate:Old enough to drive!
Sex:Male
Marital Status:Single or until I find someone.
Hobbies:Working on my car,hanging with my peoples, Going to school to meet
girls,Working on car.
Computers:Hey you never know it could be yours if your no careful.
Occupation:Student And car parts saleman
Personal Quote:Women are like a box of Chocolates you never know what one
taste like until you try her.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:45:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: 489 HP 307?

In a message dated 97-11-02 20:21:10 EST, you write:

<< Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
 >
 > Only if your drinking as much as Olds307 was when he wrote this......

 Is all this really necessary?  Nobody here knows this guy...who are we to
 tell him that he can't get 489 hp out of a natrually-aspirated 307?  Some
 mechanics <snip> magic <snip>.  Sure, <snip> a tall-tale; sure it is pretty
 unbelievable <snip>fairy tale,<snip>
 If we knew that he was lying, fine,<snip>500 horse 307 V8.  I think that we
need to <snip> accept that it might just be possible that someone could eek
out
 that kind of power.  Just my $0.02...
 _____________________________ >>

GET REAL..............:-0.......ITS NOT ONLY NECESSARY, ITS OVERDUE

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:54:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Oldsparts@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Firewall markings

     I'm hoping some of the members of this list can answer a question for
me.  Have any of you ever noticed the letters and numbers rubber stamped on
the fire walls of 70-72 cars?  (Some of the earlier cars may have had them
also-my 68 Hurst has none)  I'm wondering what these are all about.  The two
cars I have at home have the following:  72 H/O conv., fully loaded,  has a
blue green stamp that reads WW.  It also has a yellow stamp that reads B6.
 My 72 W-30 convertible (4 speed)  has a blue green stamp that reads L and a
yellow stamp that reads A6.  I have also seen pinkish red stamps as well.

    We have had rubber stamps made to duplicate these and have had some
paints custom mixed to  match the factory colors, and we always replace these
marks on any restorations we do.  The thing is, I don't know what these
stampings represent.  Do any of you know?   If not, I'm thinking about
 collecting data on  50 to 100 cars to see if we can figure this out.  I
suspect the alphanumeric stampings represent some type of time/date code, and
the others are perhaps option codes of some type.  Surely, the 500 or so
members of this list could figure this out if some one doesn't already know.
 Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance.

Sincerely For Oldsmobiles,
Steve Kenny
Brothers Automotive Products

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 20:52:27 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

Ray wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:
>
> > the 307 imy frine has rides about 2 inchs off teh gtroung also the little
307 > > packs a 489 horse power punch before nos and 789 after nos

And the dish ran away with the spoon....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 21:08:55 -0500
From: Wayne Schwartz <wschwart@iaw.on.ca>
Subject: Power Seat Question

I've been interested in installing a drivers side power BUCKET seat in
my 69 442.  A power BENCH seat set-up is available to me (don't have it
yet).  I'm considering adapting it to my bucket seat.  Looks like the
power rack to floor bolt hole pattern is shorter(approx. 13" vs 15.5").
The two mechanical drive cables (one green and one black) powering the
RH rack and seat back adjusting screws are much longer.  Does anyone
know if the cables can be shortened or if replacements are available.
Also need to know where the motor drive bracket mounts.  The bracket has
two mounting studs.  The switch has two mounting screws. I want to mount
the switch in the plastic panel surrounding the lower seat, in place of
the manual seat adjustment lever.  Is there a bracket that fits inside
of the panel to give the switch rigidity.  Last question...the switch
has a small black protrusion...no knob is this correct?  If anyone has
done a similar conversion, pls contact me.  Thanks.  wayne

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:19:38 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

To all who feel compelled to keep beating this dead horse... enough's
enough.

Let's spend some bandwidth on something useful, please!!!

I'm asking (nicely, for now) that discussion of this cease and desist.
Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:40:02 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: car but not Olds related....and then some...........

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Morris <toddmorr@us.ibm.com>
>In fact, I paid a premium for a Previa for this very reason:  I can
>reasonably expect to get 5 years from the van with NO maintenance costs
other
>than fluids, filters, and tires.  That has been the case with other Toyotas
>I've owned.  And no surprises either.

And you better hope you don't have any maintenance cost with a Toyota. My
mom had aToyota and it needed something at least once or twice a year and
considering the prices for Toyota parts (starter $120, dist. cap $25, rotor
$5, brake rotor $175....). A freind of mine had to replace the engine in his
'89 Toyota pick up about 2 years ago and paid $4k for a new long block V6 a
new 4.3 long block from GM runs about $1300. My wife's Grand am that she
baught 4 1/2 years ago has only needed (besides oil changes and air filters)
is a tire when it was 4 months old and that was because she ran over a chunk
of metal.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 21:39:18 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: 250 mph Omega

Edward J. Hufnagel wrote:


> I got all you guys beat. My Tecumseh 14 horse horizontal shaft
> lawn mower puts out 7000 h.p. and constantly beats F**raris and L*tuses
> and only uses 1/4 tank of gas. Amazing what a little shop work will do!!!

I can't let my MasterCraft 8hp snowblower go without an honourable
mention...she's been bored, stroked, shaved the head, flat-top racing
piston w/ Nicasil sleeve, high-perf reeds with a 34mm Mikuni carb,
6-speed manual gearbox (better than a TH-400), and a full-posi rear
diff...I had to get rid of the pull cord though...I imported a
high-torque elec. starter from a 454 BBC.  It now puts out 300hp
(without NOS)...I learned all of this from watching Shadetree Mechanic,
too!

I'll tell ya boys, she's faster off the line than my 307 Delta...

S.D.W.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:33:53 -0800
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: 307 performance

I'm glad it was a hoax.  I was biting my tounge real hard trying not to holler
bullsh*t.

Olds307Y@aol.com wrote:

> Hey Olds Fans This is the real owner of Olds307Y. Sopmone who knew me got a

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:47:02 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: 1966 Delta 88

- -----Original Message-----
From: Edward J. Hufnagel <ejhufnagel@juno.com>
>   It is a 2 bbl. but how do you tell if it is Hi comp or Low

Not sure about '66 but in '65 black air cleaner meant low compresion red
high. Air cleaner probable would say ultra high compresion (or something
like that) if its a high comp. engine.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:45:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: 250 mph Omega

i think my bicycle goes faster

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:49:30 -0500 (EST)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Engine specs please.... (was: 489 HP 307?)

In a message dated 97-11-02 20:21:10 EST, you write:

<< Cnvrtbl442@aol.com wrote:
 >
 > Only if your drinking as much as Olds307 was when he wrote this......

 Is all this really necessary?  Nobody here knows this guy...who are we to
 tell him that he can't get 489 hp out of a natrually-aspirated 307?  Some
 mechanics can vitrually perform magic when it comes to building race
 engines.  Sure, it does sound like a tall-tale; sure it is pretty
 unbelievable that an 83 Cutlass (with any engine) would out-run a Mustang
 5.0; sure it all sounds like a fairy tale, but none of us knows the facts.
 If we knew that he was lying, fine, but we don't know...all we know it that
 he has said that he has a 500 horse 307 V8.  I think that we need to back
 down and accept that it might just be possible that someone could eek out
 that kind of power.  Just my $0.02...
 _____________________________

 Jason K. Adcock >>

Agreed that this needs to tame down a bit, but I think it's been implied that
there are quite a few people who would be interested in hearing how he does
this.  All he's said so far is that it's got special parts on it, and the
block is the only stock item from the 307.  Has there been a spec. listing of
what's been done?  We'd all like to hear how he's getting that much from this
motor.  As one person puts it, he's spent tons of money building up a big
block, and is barely reaching 12's, and here's a guiy claiming 500 HP out of
a 307 (notoriously a "weaker generation block, windowed webs, and all....,
right?....).

So...., how 'bout some build-up specs..?

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:52:28 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: New Olds fan needs help

- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
>It is interesting the use made of the Olds
>diesel block about 17 years ago, which *was* a factory piece.
>__________________________________________________________
>Bob Barry       MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
>
Wasn't the Olds HP small blocks that were made in the '80s for nascar and
drag racing just a diesel block without the diesel injection pump provision?

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:00:50 -0500
From: "DAVID  BETZ" <dbetz@netwalk.com>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: Big Oldsmobiles

Greg and Brad,

There are all sorts of big guys and gals who love the big cars.  I have
two; 1972 Delta 88 Royale Convertible and a 1978 98 2 door.  Both are great
cars.  The bigger the better, I always say!

- ----------
> From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
> To: Oldsmobile <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Subject: UNBOUNCE: Big Oldsmobiles
> Date: Sunday, November 02, 1997 7:35 PM
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:BradRoss79@aol.com
> To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: big oldsmobiles
> Return-Path: <oldsmobile-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Let's hear some noise from the big rocket fans, I know you are out there!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:09:31 -0500
From: "DAVID  BETZ" <dbetz@netwalk.com>
Subject: Oldsmobiles in movies

Its good to see Everett is keeping Oldsmobile history alive on screen.  I
was just watching "Kingpin" with Woody Harrelson and Randy Quaid filmed in
1988.  Woody drives around in what I believe to be a 1972 Cutlass
convertible, which is a beater.  Didn't watch the whole movie to see if
they won the money and if the car got restored.  Does anybody know?

The movie was pretty bad, that is why I didn't finish watching it.

David Betz
dbetz@netwalk.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:06:31 -0500 (EST)
From: DDMRACER@aol.com
Subject: Re: Holley Carb.

In a message dated 97-10-31 00:49:19 EST, you write:

<< (BTW: it's a 650 Double Pumper, not just a 650). >>

thats the only kind of 650 Holley makes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:11:39 -0500 (EST)
From: DDMRACER@aol.com
Subject: Re: Halloween Parade duty

In a message dated 97-10-31 02:34:41 EST, you write:

<< > >>>I'd rather ride in the trunk of an olds, than drive a f*rd!!

 Snipping of all the cool one-upmanships...  :)

 Just remember...  Over 85% of all f*rds are still on the road...
  >>
  and all of the 5.0s are blowing away 95% of the Olds built since '72

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 22:18:07 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 1966 Delta 88

> From: Edward J. Hufnagel <ejhufnagel@juno.com>
> >   It is a 2 bbl. but how do you tell if it is Hi comp or Low

I've been off the list for a few days, are you asking about a 330 or a
425?  2 bbl usually means low compression, but not always.  Do you have
access to the engine number?

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:23:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: G'day Daniel!!

>>Anyway mate, good on ya' for writin' back!! I really love American cars
>>so this mailing list is bloody great news! If there's anything you want
>>to know about Aussie muscle cars, just ask!
>
>So what is an example of an Aussie muscle car?

Ah, this is something that I know a bit about! I got intrigued by the
examples of Australian musclecars that my Aussie friends had, or that I've
seen in movies (i.e. Mad Max). They produced a number of pretty-powerful
cars, and are doing it all over again with some cars that make the
LT1-Impala SS look like a 4-cyl Taurus!

The Australian musclecar got its boost from an annual race held Australia
called the "Bathurst 500"; kind of a road course, but on a mountain with
some treacherous corners (the kind of racing found in the Trans-Am series in
the late-60's). The race was designed as a competition among cars sold in
Australia, and the rules limited them to pretty-much stock configuration.
The Austin Mini was pretty dominant for a number of years in the mid-60's,
until Ford started assembling its Falcons in Australia. When the introduced
a "GT" model with the 225hp 289, it began to eat up the Minis on the track
and develop over the years into a real musclecar. Though Ford of Australia
began by borrowing its engineering from Ford of USA, eventually it diverged,
and it got to the point that the Falcon was using a 351-Cleveland motor that
was beyond the Boss 351 specs, installed in what we knew as a 4-door '67
Falcon, but with a shaker hood-scoop, a Boss-style rear wing, and 5-spoke
alloy rims nearly identical to those used on the Ferarri Daytona. Wierd
according to our tastes, I suppose, but the Phase III GTHO Falcon is the
equivalent of a 4-speed convertible 1970 W-30 442, in terms of
desireability. Oh, and it ran the quarter in 14.3@98mph. Top speed was
around 140mph, making it the fastest 4-door *anything* at the time it was
produced. Ford restyled the Falcon as a 2-door fastback in addition to a
4-door model, both with bodywork exclusive to Australia; it is the coupe
version of this car (highly customized) that Mad Max drove in the Road Warrior.

Holden (GM in Australia) countered, first with a car called a "Monaro",
which was kind of a cross between a Chevy Nova and a Camaro, in both styling
and engineering. In GTS trim, first with the 327, and then later with the
350, it gave the Falcon fits at Bathurst. When it was restyled and made
larger, Holden employed a much smaller car called the Torana, with a 202ci
6-cylinder motor. Its real success was in a later iteration, which was
pretty much equivalent to the contemporary US-produced Vega, it carried a
rather wild Holden 308ci V-8 (unrelated to anything we've seen in the
states), and some rather wild bodywork. So, remember those V-8 Vegas with
wild fender flares in Hot Rod and Popular Hot-Rodding back in the late-70's?
Well, those were factory cars in Australia at that time...

Finally, Chrysler began its racing career with a 4-door Valiant Pacer, which
was what we knew as a 4-door Dodge Dart, with racing stripes and a modified
slant-6. The next year, however, the Valiant was equipped with an
Australian-designed and built 265ci Hemi inline-6 motor. When the Valiant
Charger was introduced, and this motor was dropped into it, it made 302hp
with triple-Weber carbs, and ran a 14.2 quarter.

Olds content: Olds didn't produce any musclecars in Australia, but an
Australian company called Repco produced an aluminum V-8 for F1 racing,
based on the Buick/Olds alloy 215 V-8, and someone created a mid-engined
Valiant Charger with this motor for the modified racing classes there.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:23:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 70 442 Exhaust

>    Thanks for the reply. What I meant was do the mufflers look stock and are
>there any extra brackets welded to the mufflers that you don't use and do the
>tail pipes line up properly out the back?

The mufflers do look stock; everything follows the factory setup, and the
kit price includes all the factory-style hangers and brackets. The one piece
that the kit doesn't include is the flat round clamp that attaches the
tailpipe near the trumpet to the final bracket. That final bracket itself
differs from the original style bracket, but it works; we discussed a bit
back how nobody reproduces that bracket for the tailpipes with the trumpets

And yes, the tailpipes lined up perfectly; no interference with shocks,
springs or control arms, and the pipes are centered in the exhaust cutouts
in my bumper.

BTW, Steve, just got some pictures developed from that Berejik show; nice
shots of your '73. I can scan them and send them to you via e-mail if you
want to put them up on a web-page. E-mail me privately if you're interested.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:23:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: 489 HP 307?

>> Only if your drinking as much as Olds307 was when he wrote this......
>
>Is all this really necessary?  Nobody here knows this guy...who are we to
>tell him that he can't get 489 hp out of a natrually-aspirated 307?  Some
>mechanics can vitrually perform magic when it comes to building race
 [snip]
>he has said that he has a 500 horse 307 V8.  I think that we need to back
>down and accept that it might just be possible that someone could eek out
>that kind of power.  Just my $0.02...

I have no doubt that you could get 489hp out of a 307ci V-8; I did have
questions about this being done with a 307ci _Olds_ V-8 motor. Each pound of
gasoline only has a certain energy content; the only way to get a motor to
produce more hp (in this case, 349hp over the 307's stock 140hp) is either
to burn the same amount of fuel more efficiently (a lot of the latent energy
in gasoline is wasted in the form of lost heat and unburned fuel), or to
burn more fuel.

Now, no doubt a 307 could be made to burn fuel more efficiently (better
atomization, combustion chamber modification), or burn more fuel (bigger
valves and cam, larger ports, higher rpm). There are two basic design
limitations of the 307 that restrict what you can do in this second area:

1) The small bore on these motors limits the gains from bigger valves and
freer-flowing ports, since the cylinder wall will "shroud" the larger valve,
blocking or restricting flow around about 1/3 of the valve. This limits the
upper rpms, which you'll need to move enough fuel to produce 489hp.

2) The windowed main-webs compromise the ability of the block to withstand
the 7000rpm plus you'll need to get 489hp. I'd like to see what that block
looks like after a couple runs on nitrous!

Of course, this is all academic, as the 489hp was revealed as a prank. It
could be done, if everything about the engine was in fact completely different.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:53:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Olds307Y@aol.com
Subject: Re: 307 performance

Look i show all respect to all the olds fans out there but ya need to drop
what someone else started it makes no sense to keep a fairy tail alive you
and i know it is not possible for a olds 307 to rip a rustang in the long run
only if your lucky like i was a couple of times and I do mean a couple of
times to take off on it stay with until the car shifts in to second then it's
all over. Soo if anybody out there has a brain for reality use it there is no
reason for you to batter me for what someone else started alright. I signed
on this list to get information on olds cars. Not to have to put up with
imature back yard mechanices. So keep the list orineted towards information
on  and the preservation of oldsmobiles. And let a lame practical joke to
make me look bad die. Please it's realy staryting to get me upset and many
other people online.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:03:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Olds307Y@aol.com
Subject: Re: 489 HP 307?

A man with educatiion on the olds 307 can you privatly e-mail me with some
more informantion onto what can be done to run a little more horse power
The address is  Olds307Y@ aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 97 23:19:37 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: Fisher Body & Shop Manuals

At 07:41 PM 11/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Came accross a number of body and shop manuals.  All of them are
>originals.
>If you're interested in them, e-mail me directly.
>
>1967 Fisher Body Manual        $20
>1969 Fisher Body Manual        $20
>1973 Fisher Body Manual        $20
>1974 Fisher Body Manual        $20
>1975 Fisher Body Manual        $20
>1983 Fisher Body Manual        $20
>
>1955 Oldsmobile Shop Manual    $35
>1969 Buick Shop Manual         $25
>
>The above prices DO NOT include shipping.
>--
>Kurt Heinrich  (mailto:old442@erols.com)
>71 442         (see it at http://www.442.com/heinrich.html)
>


  Kurt,  Tried to e-mail to you separate from the list but it bounced back.
I would be interrested in a '69 body manual.  Please let me know total cost
and where to send it.

  Thanks,
  Glenn     gpc442@buffnet.net
  '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:21:57 -0500 (EST)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Re: Power Seat Question

Am interested in doing the same thing with my '68 442. If anybody has any
ecperience with this addition, post your experiences.
I have a power seat core seat already. Any tricks before I proceed?

CoupeKing

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:19:20 EST
From: Cnvrtbl442 <Cnvrtbl442@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Halloween Parade duty

In a message dated 97-11-02 22:25:14 EST, you write:

<< In a message dated 97-10-31 02:34:41 EST, you write:

 << > >>>I'd rather ride in the trunk of an olds, than drive a f*rd!!

  Snipping of all the cool one-upmanships...  :)

  Just remember...  Over 85% of all f*rds are still on the road...
   >>
   and all of the 5.0s are blowing away 95% of the Olds built since '72
  >>

Yeah but its us other  5% that make those 5.0s turn off onto Excuses Blvd!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:26:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 307 w/ 489 BS^H^HHP

Original text standard, mine in [[brackets]]... -RS-


Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 02:54:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Olds307Y@aol.com
Subject: Re: 489 HP 307?

When you have the 35 years of experience  working cars talk as much trash as

[[OK, I'm a-talkin' then. ]]

you want the engine is not all stock the came ias cutum ground in my shop to
my spec's crank saft to basicly it s olds 307 with nothing but my custum made
parts the 307 produces  489hp with 2 Nos bottles it Kicks up to about 789hp.
- ------------------------------

[[No feces? Not a stock 307, eh? Go figger. Cutum grind your own cams, wow. ]]

600 hundred buys the steel . the 3 years time it took to pefect is worth
about another 70,000.00 All wok is cutum and done in my personal shop meaning
not open to anybody.

[[Oh, I see, the real budget was $70,600. That explains a lot. How
excruciatingly conveeeeenient that this shop is secretly closed to the
public.]]

    its realy true but all wor is extremly custum i would not attempt to do it
if you don't have the proper machines

[[I second that motion. Even *I* do not attempt to grind my own cams. Well,
there was that ONE experiment, but the results were... ah... inconclusive!]]

    it's olds block the rest is my creation

[[Oh, oh, ok, your own design heads, prolly DOHC then, Hemi design, your own
intake & fuel/air mixer. That could be done on the $70,600 budget I guess.]]

[[
About 5500rpm in fourth on a muncie 4spd red line i can pull about 170

[[Spreadsheet:  Assuming a 30" dia. tire... heck, why not, with that much
power? We have, with a 1:1 Muncie top gear... using 170mph to get axle rpm...

@engine RPM    calculated final drive ratio
5000           2.62
6000           3.15
7000           3.67
8000           4.20

Presumably even this custom motor does not rev beyond 8000 rpm.
]]

- ------------
Hey Olds Fans This is the real owner of Olds307Y. Sopmone who knew me got a
hold of my password and tried to make me look like a fol but te only fool now
is teh kind that did it because of the great pain he is feeling right now. I

[[Oh, the latest real story...]]

and you know there is no way possible to get a 307 to produce 489 horse the
highest horse rating i heard so far is 300horse with about 400 with nos. I

[[refreshingly realistic numbers!]]

have only had a couple of chances to kick rustang ass but that was with the
2.3 turbo versions the V8 are one of the quickest out there. So if you see
anything else about the Mysterious 307 with 489 ignore it.
later gots to go see if the guy finished my trans yet.
put the pedal to the floor And blow your doors off.

[[Just when I was about to invit him to fax me a copy of that dyno test, and
then come and kick my car's ass with its wussy little 400 HP [est'd] 455! ]]

- ----------------
Is all this really necessary?  Nobody here knows this guy...who are we to
tell him that he can't get 489 hp out of a natrually-aspirated 307?  Some

[[ 1) Yes it is necessary to call someone on the carpet when they make such
absurd claims. 2) We are Olds and engines-in-general experts with years of
practical experience and engineering degrees. Street & race motor builders who
WISH they could find the secret to getting 489 HP out of 307 ci. ]]

mechanics can vitrually perform magic when it comes to building race

[[ Yeah, but this guy was proclaiming this stuff to be true, not "magic." ]]

engines.  Sure, it does sound like a tall-tale; sure it is pretty
unbelievable that an 83 Cutlass (with any engine) would out-run a Mustang
5.0; sure it all sounds like a fairy tale, but none of us knows the facts.

[[ Listen to yourself, man! "Tall tale... unbelievable... fairy tale..." Deep
down, you know the facts. Have you BEEN to a race lately? See how tough that
kind of power is to attain? ]]

If we knew that he was lying, fine, but we don't know...all we know it that

[[ Well, some of us DO know. We tried real hard not to outright call him a 
liar,
wanting to believe that could be true... just asked for proof, like, oh, dyno
test report for example. ]]

he has said that he has a 500 horse 307 V8.  I think that we need to back
down and accept that it might just be possible that someone could eek out
that kind of power.  Just my $0.02...
==================
[[ Hey, don't stretch his stretchers any further, the results could be
disastrous! He said 489HP, not 500. Not 488, not 490. That's one thing that I
found amazing- that the "w/ N2O" figures were *exactly* 100.0 HP more than w/o.
Not 99, not 107, but 100 exactly. Smells fishy! ]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:36:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 68 442 @ trans shop

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 04:22:42 +0000
From: clarence wirtz <cw63nova@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 68 442

Well I finally got to look at the 442 be hind the tranny shop here.  It has
what looks to me as a rather large rear sway bar(dont know size just looks
thick), red fender stripes, auto w/console, the passange side has an air
intake ubder the front bumper about 1 1/2 " tall and about 4 or 5" wide.

[[ Sounds suspciously like a W30 OAI scoop! Quick tip would be the *red*
plastic inner fender wells.  Actually, the '68 scoops were supposed to be
about 14-16"? wide, the '69's were about 12" wide. ]]

Could not find clues of one on the drives side. body is in good shape. paint
fadded real bad. Looks like it may have been a light grey or silver color
before it faded now it looks like light grey primer in color.

[[ any chance he'd let you look at/ copy down the body tag info, grab the VIN
while you're at it! That will tell us a bunch about the car. Look for a "- -"
paint code on the body tag- probably won't have it, but is a mark of interest
if so. ]]

Bad news is that the old man does not want to sell it.  He says he is
holding on to it for his grandson(lucky kid).  Oh well. maybe next time. It

[[Keep in touch with him- times change, plans change, kid might be a turncoat,
who knows? ]]

was still nice to look at a nice machine like that. BTW the motor was out.
He says he has it in the garage waiting to rebuild it. I dont know much
about the 68 442's but I thought he aid it was a 455. I dont know. Did the
442's in 68 have 455's?
- -------
  That would have been the 400ci. used in the '68 and '69 4-4-2 unless it
was the Hurst Olds which would have had the 455ci.
- -======================
[[ the '68-9 442's would have had 400 motor with "G" casting ID behind the
water pump. Only the H/O's got the 455, and they had no vertical fender
stripe. Either he's confused, or the 455 is not the original motor. Can you
check the heads' casting ID? Block ID? '68 W30 motor would have C or D heads.]]
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:41:01 -0500 (EST)
From: DEOVIVERE@aol.com
Subject: Re: australian musle cars?

In a message dated 97-11-02 15:43:21 EST, you write:

<< I  was in Perth in 83 or 84 during July.  I realy enjoyed myself while I
was
 there.  I did see a couple cars while I was down there that might be your
 performance cars. >>


This makes me think of the Road Warrior in "the last of the V-8 Interceptors"
with a blower under the hood and a couple of 55 gal drums of "guzzeline" in
the trunk.   That's what comes to my mind when I think of Australian muscle.
  What kind of car is the V-8 Interceptor?  Is it British?

Tom Simmons

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:44:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: plug diffs testing

What I would like to see if someone really claims they may
> more power, is to buy a NEW set of AC or Autolight plugs (forget
> Champion, they are worthless for a GM car, had 2 sets FAIL, i.e., open
> plug, not worth a penny a piece IMHO!),
>
> 1.  Install NEW AC or NEW Autolight plugs.
> 2.  Take to track or a controlled area.
> 3.  Make several passes, measure 60 foot time, 100 foot time, and 1/4
> mi. time.
> 4.  Install NEW Splitfires.
> 5.  Make several passes, measure 60 foot time, 100 foot time, and 1/4
> mi. time.
> 6.  Compare data on a spreadsheet or something you can view data.
>
> If you cannot get traction to make consistent runs, do 50-70 times, or
> 30-50 and 30-70.  Compare those like above.
==============

I agree, except with one more step: put the original new [now slightly used]
plugs back in and repeat the testing so that the "drop in performance" with
those lame plugs can be fully verified. Statistically, you'd need at least 30
identical runs with each set of conditions to ensure a reasonable validity, but
we might skimp at first , just to see, heck if the diff is 10% then 5 runs
should consistantly show the separation.
.
At work, they make seat track  motors... sent a new drive tube design out to
the customer... they were designed to operate up to 1000ª, supposed to w/stand
a 3000ª pull. Customer tested 30 random samples. Failures ranged from about
6000ª to 9800ª. -NONE- failed at less than 2x the minimum, which is itself 3x
the expected largest operating load. Yet, astonishingly enough, they did a
"Weibull" analysis of the results and reported back to us that 1-2% of these
type of tubes would not pass the minimum strength test. Not "might not pass"
mind you, but "would not pass". Ain't statistics grand!?
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:50:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: extrusion honing

>$500.00 for the exhaust manifolds
>$365.00 for the intake manifold
>$995.00 for the cast iron heads


Dang, $2000 for an engine! Assuming that's not PER HEAD co$t there...

Gets me to wondering:
1) What if a bunch of us contract to do Olds parts all at once, can we get a
group discount?

2) I bet we can design a simple system to do the same thing: use low pressure,
rubber impeller centrifugal pump, abrasive slurry, take longer, but require no
babysitting anyhow. Let her run for a week or three. Angela came up with the
perfect analogy: like waves & sand polish rocks & glass shards at the beach.
Rubber pumps hold up quite well to abrasive slurries. Maybe do it for $300 a
motor [higher for Blowtie parts, of course- revenge for the engine kits'
discrepancies!].
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:59:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Patrick Rose <prose@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Electrical queries

I was wondering if the person who was having trouble with their dash
lights ever got them to work. I just replaced mine and they are working
great. Also, would it be possible for someone to post the electrical
diagram for a '68 cutlass on the web? I can't find a manual and my stereo
must be wired completely wrong. It works when the key is in aux position,
but whenever the engine is fired-up it makes a high-pitched squeal. Weird.
I just got a new speaker for the front and it would be nice if I could get
the stereo to work before I install it. Thanks.

Pat

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:01:54 -0500
From: evans1@serv01.net-link.net
Subject: Edelbrock heads--SEMA

Hey,

Anyone headed to Vegas to the SEMA show?  As I recall, this was supposed to
be the big intro of the BB Olds aluminum heads.....not sure if they're
announcing availability, or if it's more of a "look, we've made a prototype,
we might make more someday" kind of thing.

Appreciate any info that anyone comes up with.



Mike Evans
Richland, MI
evans1@net-link.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:11:50 -0800 (PST)
From: <the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: 307 w/ 489 BS^H^HHP

I've been sleeping all day (weekend) after getting the flu or
something (actually I think I have bronchitis or a weak form of
pneumonia... will be seeing the doctor Tuesday) I missed the rest of
this thread but will add something...

<snip of unbelievable motor specs and explanation>
>engines.  Sure, it does sound like a tall-tale; sure it is pretty
>unbelievable that an 83 Cutlass (with any engine) would out-run a
>Mustang 5.0; sure it all sounds like a fairy tale, but none of us
knows >the facts.

What's so unbelievable about an '83 Cutlass outrunning a 5.0?  Lucille
has on two seperate occasions beat Rustang 5.0's.  Lucille is an '84
Cutlass w/ 350-4bbl, built TH375, and at the time 2.41:1 (stock) rear
end (now 3.73:1).  Dual exhaust, open element breather, electric fan,
and other mods probably bring hp closer to 200 rather than the stock
170hp.  TH375 is _VERY_ built... full manual conversion, full clutch
packs, the whole 9-yards.  On the first occasion, I raced a slightly
modified 5.0 (it was f*ckin' puple) from a stop.  He had somthing like
about a 3.90 or so rear.  Obviously he had me at first, but after
about 75mph or so, I just passed right by him (high rear end)... The
sescond time was a 5.0 I know nothing about, and we raced a hot 1/4
mile (moving start from about the speed-limit) on the local 4-lane.
With those airplane aka bonneville gears, he didn't have a chance ;-)
I'll see what can be seen with those 3.73's I've got now.  I think it
should do pretty good... remember, I've got cubes on a 5.0, and even
though a smogger 350 isn't that much of a motor, neither is a smogger
5.0 (although aftermarket sh*t is certainly much more available), and
with the lightweight G-body Cutlass it should do pretty good!

Peace, Goodwill, and Happy Oldsmobilling,
Clayton (Have you whupped a Ford... Lately) Pierce,
zcwp11@Access.ETSU-Tn.Edu
the_rocketeer@rocketmail.com


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