
oldsmobile-digest      Saturday, December 6 1997      Volume 01 : Number 992



RE: Parts For Sale
Re: EXHAUST MANIFOLD CAP
Re: 64 442 f/s
TH200R-4 durability, shifting question and gear ratios.
Vinyl top question
Propane question
RE: H-Pipe
JWO
Re: OOPS!! Sorry about that (W-32 Qests)
Re: Xmas
Re: 64 442 f/s
Re: sounds
Re: JWO
Attention K-Mart Shoppers...
ADMIN: Mail Problems
Re: EXHAUST MANIFOLD CAP
Re: Re[2]: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
test, don't read 
Time Billing Professional
Lost replies
RE: H-Pipe
Re: H-Pipe
Re: sounds
Re: H-Pipe
Re: H-Pipe
Re: sounds
Re: Intake Manifold gaskets
Olds Centennial stuff!
Centennial celebration plaque
Re: TH200R- gear ratios. LONG
Re: Beware of Brother's
Re: Attention K-Mart Shoppers...
RE: 1977 oldsmobile omega 305 v8 2bbl
Re: 64 442 f/s
Re: OOPS!! Sorry about that (W-32 Qests)
Re: POR 15

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:33:50 -0600
From: "Russell G. Baker" <rgbaker@wt.net>
Subject: RE: Parts For Sale

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69' Power antenna & switch 		$60.00

Do you still have this?   If so I'd like to buy it if you have all supporting hardware?

rgbaker@wt.net
" If it's worth doing.  Then do it right ! "
Russell G. Baker


- -----Original Message-----
From:	Robert Schinkel [SMTP:docbob@caninet.com]
Sent:	Monday, December 01, 1997 3:53 PM
To:	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject:	Parts For Sale

Some parts have been just thrown into any year cause they are basically
universal between 68 - 72 and don't need to be entered into each column...
Such as sway bars 


PLEASE   E - me direct and
I'll get back to you A.S.A.P

Robert Schinkel
docbob@caninet.com

1968

Wheel well chrome			$20.00 each.
Front side markers			$15.00 each
Rear side markers			$15.00 each
Black dash pad  Mint			$90.00
Hood Hinges				$35.00
400 engine  (out of 68 442  )		$350.00
Th400 OG				$100.00
442 Air cleaner				$75.00
3 speed console (standard shift)		$275.00
C casting heads	 (complete)		$175.00
Cutlass Grill 				$95.00
Cutlass Convertible Trunk lid Mint	$250.00
Cutlass trunk lid ( southern)		$150.00
Headlight Frames (plastic)		$250.00

1969

442 Grills exc.				$190.00
SSI's   code JK 14x6 set of 4		$100.00
Nos reverse light lens (in box)		$15.00
Power antenna & switch 		$60.00
Wiper switch 				$40.00
Radio plate (uncut)			$20.00
Power Top switch & wiring		$45.00
Rear defroster Switch & wiring		$25.00
Plastic headlight frames 			$75.00
Cutlass Conv. Trunk lid (Southern)	$150.00
Dash pad (gold)				$90.00

1970

Tail light lens (Cutlass)			$10.00 each
Tail light lens (Supreme)			$12.00 each
Nos fender script "Cutlass"		$30.00 each
Nos Horn Contact (sport wheel)		$20.00 each
Nos 442 emblem sets (full)		$225.00 
F85 fender script 			$30.00 pr.
Rear side marker lights			$15.00 each
Front side marker lights			$20.00 each
Conv. Pump, Cyl.,and lines		$150.00
Nos Boxed lower Control Arms		$225.00
Rear Spoiler (original)			$275.00
Rear Sway Bar				$60.00
1" 1/8 front sway bar (heavy duty)	$60.00 

1971 & 1972

Nos headlight frames(plastic)		$75.00 pr.
Front bumper directional lens		$10.00 ea.
Tail light lens				$10.00 ea.
Power bench seat 			$100.00
Trunk lid script "O-L-D-S-M-O-B-I-L-E"	$30.00
Dash pad (olive)				$75.00
Dash pad ( blue)				$75.00
Dash pad (black)			$75.00
442 Grills good condition (with emblems)	$200.00
4 Speed console (VGC.includes key)	$200.00
Auto Console (black)			$90.00
Auto Console (Tan)			$90.00
Auto Console (Brown)			$90.00
Auto Console (Green)			$90.00

Literature

1961 F - 85 Service Manual		$40
1970 Sales Booklet 			$20
1973 Sales Booklet			$20
1974 Sales Booklet			$20
1974 Sales Booklet (Omega)		$20

To my best of knowledge each of these parts are in Good condition and
that's why I advertise them for sale.  Some have been repaired such as
grills,  But I take much pride in my repair work and hope you will be
satisfied with my efforts.

If there is something you are searching for and it is not on the list
please feel free to ask I am more then happy to hunt for parts.  

Shipping is extra 

Robert Schinkel
docbob@caninet.com
905-357-4454



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:36:49 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: EXHAUST MANIFOLD CAP

I just went to a welders shop and they welded a piece in there for me, no big
deal, my exhaust works fine.......
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 02:58:57 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: 64 442 f/s

Peg O'Connor wrote:

> Of course, there are those of us who already appreciate Oldsmobiles . . .
> many times I'm the one dragging the guy to all the car shows!

It just shows a proper upbringing and good ancestry.  :)
Having class has nothing to do with having $$$.  Just as being male
doesn't preclude an interest in a nice set of wheels.  Not all guys like
or appreciate our automotive history, but they should at least respect
your interest in it.  My youngest daughter (age 17) is a budding
gearhead.  Even though they may not know anything about working on them,
both my daughters have already discussed who gets which car when I'm
gone.  Nice to know my eventual resto efforts will be appreciated.  The
main problem I see in their scenario is I don't plan on checking outta
here for another 30 years or so!  Ah, the trials and tribulations of
proper estate planning. :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:53:37 -0700
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: TH200R-4 durability, shifting question and gear ratios.

	As I have mentioned in my "Vinyl top" question, I just bought a 1981
Regancy.  It is equiped with a 307 and a overdrive tranny (which I assume
is the TH200R4).  The car is on Propane and is in great shape.  The tranny,
however, shifts hard from first to second, as if it had a shift kit.  The
previouse owner said they had it checked out and that it was okay.  She
also said it has been doing that for a while.  The car has 220,000km and
she said everything including the tranny was original.  The car runs on
full Propane conversion(propane only), so the timing has been advanced
quite a bit.  Could this cause it to shift hard.  What else could cause it
and can I fix it. 

	Another question I have is what is the track record for these
transmisions, can they last a fair time if diven properly.  Also, can this
tranny be preped to take a higher tourqe engine like the 350.  Are there
any known problems and/or bugs in this trans.

	The third question is if anyone knows, what are the gear ratios of the
TH200R4. Also, if you know, what are the ratios of TH250, 350, 400 trans (I
have all three and am trying to determine which one to use in my delta with
a stronger motor then the stock 307, TH350 in not so great of a shape). 
And also, if you know, what are the gear ratios of the TH700R4, as I am
considering getting that for the Delta.
Any suggestions are helpful.  Thanks.      

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 307(now a project car, maybe 455)
1981 98 Regancy 307
1976 Delta 88 455
1995 Intrepid 3.3L (jap crap copy, but not quite as good) 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:41:34 -0700
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Vinyl top question

Just today I purchased an excelent 1981 Regancy with all the bells and
wistles from a lady, who purchased the car 6 years ago from a retired
gentlemen.  The car has 220,000km, new paint and a flawless interior, but
the vinyl top is starting to crack.  The car is a frost metalic green with
a light green interior and a light grey top.  My question is,  are these
tops expensive to replace(the car has a sunroof)? And since the cracks are
not that severe (although the car sat outside for all of its life in -40C
tempratures here in Calgary) is there a way to repair them so that they
would not spread.  I have a vinyl top on my 1981 Delta 88 and althogh the
car has a half-million kms on it, it is still in good shape.  Thanks for
any help.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 307(now a project car, maybe 455)
1981 98 Regancy 307
1976 Delta 88 455
1995 Intrepid 3.3L (jap crap copy, but not quite as good) 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:05:24 -0700
From: "Igor" <todorovb@cadvision.com>
Subject: Propane question

I have a question regarding propane.  I just bought a 1981 Regancy with a
full Propane conversion.  I have a question regarding everything
essentialy.  If anyone has had any experiences with Propane, plese tell me
what to do and what not to do.  I live in Calgary, Alberta so it gets
pretty cold up here.  I have a heated garage (private 2 car).  So, can I
put the car in the garage over night. The reason why I ask is if there was
a  Propane leak from the Regancy, then would the furnace not blow up the
car with a half of block taken down from Oldsmobile shrapnel.

The husband of the lady I bought the car from tells me that the timing has
been advanced quite a bit as this is possible with Propane.  He also says
that if engine is properly set for full Propane conversion, it can
acctually make more power.  The reason why I ask this is if this is true,
then I could rebuild the 455 from my 76 Delta and add a nice RV cam and
some higher compression heads, which I would put in my 81 project Delta,
have some serious power, and still be able to afford to run the damn thing.
 So if you know of anyone that did this sort of thing, please tell me what
their oppinions were.  The car has a 307 with a TH200R4 and a wimpy 2:73
rear.  My 81 Delta has a 307 with a TH250 and a 2:73 rear, it runs on gas
and despite the Delta having 300,000 km more then the Regency, it can still
outrun it.  So is this guy BSing me or is this propane use for power
possible.   Granted, the Regancy is a heavier car, however, it still seems
to produce less midrange punch, that which the Delta is semi-capable of. 
Thanks.

Igor Todorovic
1981 Delta 88 307(now a project car, maybe 455)
1981 98 Regancy 307
1976 Delta 88 455
1995 Intrepid 3.3L (jap crap copy, but not quite as good) 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:02:13 -0500
From: "Kerr, Brian (R)" <kerrb@basf-corp.com>
Subject: RE: H-Pipe

There was an article recently in one of the magazines that compared the HP 
and torque when upgrading to headers, performance mufflers, and adding an H 
pipe. The improvements were done in stages, on a done on a dyno, replicated 
etc. I cant remember which mag it was, but I'll post the results if I find 
it. It did indicate that adding an H pipe caused a shift in peak HP and 
torque, with an improvement in lower RPM torque. The results were enough to 
make up my mind to ad an H pipe to my system when I upgrade.

Brian Kerr
69 Cutlass conv
 ----------
From: Trevor Lee
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: H-Pipe
Date: Friday, December 05, 1997 2:27PM

> Once you experience that sound, you either like it or not.  If you don't 
know
> what a H-Pipe is, it is a pipe welded across the dual exhaust to balance 
out
> the exhaust.

        Peter, I was just wondering what you've heard about the performance
advantages/disadvantages of using an "h-pipe".  I've heard that, although it 
does
quiet the exhaust noise slightly, it compensates with a small increase in 
the
torque output of the engine.  Please circle one:  True / False.  I'm going 
to be
having custom exhaust put on my Cutlass after I fire up the new engine in 
the
spring of '98, but I just wanna know for sure if I should have an h-pipe
incorporated into the system or if I should just run 2 individual pipes - 
I'm most
likely going to be going with Flowmaster 3-chambers, btw.  Thanx for any
advice/help.
 --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered 1976 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass
lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:00:53 EST
From: KarlAune <KarlAune@aol.com>
Subject: JWO

Just got Dec. JWO.

Much impressed by Greg's article "Diary to Lansing", or, more properly,
impressed  with all but the title.

Somehow, Greg did manage to accurately capture the frantic atmosphere of the
Oldsmobile Centenial; "Gotta see the motorcade, then visit the Future of Olds
Exhibit, then see the 'Stupid Dead Bunnies' live a michiganfest, and then, of
course the auction of gold-plated-J2 Rocket-accessories. There was a whole lot
happening in a very few days. Bravo Greg!

Tell you what, I am off to Minneapolis, MN for the weekend. On earliest
convenience thereafter (there will be anISP change soon so there may be an
unsubscribe/resubscribe between now and then) I will send an impression of our
(D. Brown and my..) experiences in Lansing (some of you who were there may be
suprised!). If responses are favorable,maybe that will also be submitted to
JWO, along with Karl's myriad polaroids if he can get them scanned (this means
you C. Ruper!).

I have not recieved any direct comments about the 425 cid Super Rocket specs
(and I am incredibly far behind in my digests [catch up this weekend?]) so I
am assuming they were taken at face value. 

Mind you, Given those BV vs. SV "E"-block posts, I toyed with the notion that
mayhaps the "A" block had big and small valves.

Of course, common sense got the better of me. The first big valves were in the
1966 "B" heads on the first Toronado cars. This may have been intentional, to
compensate for the relatively poor flow of the lo-rise manifold.

Anyway.....

Later

Karl Aune
1965 Dynamic 88 Celebrity Sedan
Member, OCA, IVOC, RRAP

The needs of the Oldsmobile restorer outweigh the needs of the many, and the
few, and the one. (Although the one is usually the local representative of the
Internal Revenue Service.......)   [ or is that Iconoclastic Revenge
Soldiers?]

Oh,oh, aol shutting down until 4,.... must send now.....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 04:38:51 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: OOPS!! Sorry about that (W-32 Qests)

GREGG GREER wrote:
> 
> I have a ''70 Cutlass Supreme SX (W-32) that I am partially restoring.
> Since I can't seem to find a whole lot of info. on this particular model, I
> was wondering if maybe someone could help.  Did the rear boxed lower
> control arms and anti-sway bar come standard on this model or were those an
> option?  The current rear lower control arms are not boxed and there is no
> sway bar, but someone told me that this was standard for this model.  My
> father purchased the car new in '70 (contrary to the ads, yes, this WAS my
> father's Oldsmobile) and had it worked on by numerous shops over the years,
> I was thinkin' that somewhere along the line, if this is true, someone
> musta swapped parts!?  Also, the car came with factory (Fremont, CA.) air.
> Does this mean that the rear-end (12-bolt) came standard with a 3.23:1?  As
> for the interior, the color schemes offered for that year for the vinyl
> seats, or as far as I can tell, don't seem to match the original color of
> the seat (split bench wth armrest in front and bench in rear) which is
> white (or maybe an off-white but it seems to be whiter than that).  I
> believe Year One offers a pearl color vinyl, but that doesn't match.  Any
> thoughts? Also, where would be good place to find/purchase a Rallye Pack
> Guage setup (are they even available and rough estimate of how much they
> are if available), and a 4 spoke sport steering wheel?  Any help/info would
> be greatly appreciated.


glad to help ya out here a lil bit,Greg....standard axle for the SX was 
2.56 ratio.....I have 1 in my car....70 SX convertible.....its a 12 bolt 
posi unit...nnot sure whether the posi was standard or not on  the SX 
model.....my car is fully optioned to the hilt....all except 8 
track...and have non-boxed arms......and no sway bar......which I would 
take as be standard for 70.....as for the white trim...it was ONLY 
pffered in 1972 models...how it got in car I can only assume it was 
changed somehow....they only had pearl for 70 and 71....good luck on the 
rally-pac....there are some to be had out there......for a price...the 
steering wheel shouldn't be hard...probably some one on the list can 
hook you up.....Hoagie


1970 Cutlass SX convertible
1971 442 W-30 convertible convertible
1971 442 "hardtop coupe"
1971 Monte Carlo
1969 Camaro RS
1997 Camaro Z-28

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 04:47:20 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: Xmas

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> I guess what irks me the most is that slams and
> >put downs are just thrown out on the list without thought! Think of
> >everyone in the same room face to face! Would you say the same things?
> >Of course not!
> 
> Just like the "nahh nahh nahh, my car's faster then yours" - just think how
> much of that wouldn't go on if the cars were side by side!!
> 
> Jeez- are you guys testy or WHAT?
> 
> Lisa Madsen
> Anaheim, CA
> 
> '64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
> Cruiser (twin hauler)
> 
> Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
> 
> My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
> 
> Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
> Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/
> 
> *** NEW ***
> Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
> http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/


just too much ego and testosterone........only a man would 
understand....everyones always gotta be RIGHT!!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 04:53:56 -0800
From: "David, Terri and Rob" <hoagie@emeraldis.com>
Subject: Re: 64 442 f/s

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> Do you know how many GUYS say the same thing to me when I start talking
> cars.  Equality here folks, ignorance comes in all sexes, colors and
> preferences.
> 
> Lisa Madsen
> Anaheim, CA
> 
> '64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
> Cruiser (twin hauler)
> 
> Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com
> 
> My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/
> 
> Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
> Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/
> 
> *** NEW ***
> Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
> http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/


touche' lisa....point well taken....I like your attitude....I'm going to 
keep my eye on you......(the good 1 anyway)....everyone knows women are 
smarter....I'm the dumba$$ working 2  jobs....while she stays 
home....but who's complaing......;

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:25:13 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: sounds

how bout 4 starters the 1st few lines of the Beach boys "409" I have the c/d
and allways crank it up just for the 1st 10 secs!!!!
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:26:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: JWO

On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, KarlAune wrote:
> Just got Dec. JWO.
> 
> Much impressed by Greg's article "Diary to Lansing", or, more properly,
> impressed  with all but the title.

Thanks Karl, though I still haven't actually *seen* the article as it 
appeared... nor did I have anything to do with the title. Our post office 
was on strike for two weeks, until Thursday. No mail flowing yet, so no 
JWO (boo-hoo). 

The story on these: those of you who were here around the time of the 
Centennial will recall I posted 5 diaries of my experiences in Lansing to 
the list. Doug Kitchener asked me if he could send them to Penny Casteele 
and I said sure, just have her run them by me first if she decides to do 
anything with them, since there's some stuff in there that maybe I 
wouldn't want to have printed (nothing bad, but stuff that would be 
better to keep to the confines of the list community here). That was 
around Labor Day and I heard nothing until last week when Everett H. 
and others mentioned it to me in passing. Yikes! I didn't put a whole lot 
of time into crafting them, so I hope they read OK. If I knew I was 
writing a JWO article I might have changed a few things! Oh well...

Incidentally, the Olds Today newspaper apparently published some 
excerpts of messages that appeared here about the Centennial in their 
latest edition, so someone from Olds corporate apparently still reads this 
from time to time. Again, as far as I know, no one whose message appeared 
there got contacted beforehand.

Anyway, the fat's in the fire now, so there's nothing I can do about it. 
The original 5 diaries are on Mick Gillespie's web page if anyone is 
interested. Don't have the URL in front of me unfortunately, but it's not 
hard to find.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:28:01 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Attention K-Mart Shoppers...

Sent this just as Chebucto had a mail problem last night, so it never 
appeared. Trying again:

Called Alpha One today to order one of the Centennial dash plaques they 
are selling ($40, kind of steep, but geez, when are you going to find 
them again? Plus, it's Christmas...). Asked Aaron, the agent on the 
phone, if they had any special stuff I should know about, or stuff that 
came in after the Centennial. He had some good info:

- - they were supposed to get both the large and small lamppost banners to 
sell, but all of the small ones disappeared ("destroyed or stolen", he 
said). I wanted a small one, but the $100 for a large was just too much.

- - they wanted to get a re-supply on the little flags Olds gave to the 
motorcade participants, but Olds wanted them just for the folks who were 
there and refused permission. So no luck there.

- - they tried to re-order the shirts given to the volunteers (the ones 
that you couldn't get in August) but the manufacturer has discontinued 
that style, so no luck. He told me that one story making the rounds is 
that a couple of people sold theirs for $100-$150 in August. I would have 
paid $40...

- - there's a bunch of stuff on sale: Centennial lapel pins, $1.00; 
T-shirts, $4.95; acrylic mugs, $5.95, some other things too. Call them at 
800-338-2955.

Happy shopping!!

If anyone knows of someone selling one of the volunteer golf shirts, or 
the motorcade flags, let me know. Thanks!

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:30:56 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: ADMIN: Mail Problems

Last night (Friday) Chebucto had a bit of a system meltdown so some 
messages may be lost in space. A lot of bounces here this morning, for 
sure. 

Among the bouncers for the last couple of days is Mark Cornea. I imagine 
maybe he got swamped with mail after posting his December sale notice. I 
haven't removed his address from the list but if anyone is talking to 
him, mention please that his email is not working, might be missing 
orders, etc. Thanks!  

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 97 8:05:30 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: EXHAUST MANIFOLD CAP

>HI, LOOKING FOR A EXHAUST MANIFOLD CAP FOR MY '68 CUTLASS CONVERT, TO CAP OFF
>THE CROSSOVER OPENING FOR MY DUAL EXHAUST.  SUPERCARS UNLIMITED USED TO CARRY
>THIS BUT NO LONGER DOES.  ANY HELP? 
>THANKS, LEIGH
>Mr ExMt@aol.com
>

       If you are unable to find the proper exhaust manifold cap, a soft
plug works great.  Just measure the inside diameter of the manifold opening,
get that size soft plug, tap it in and weld it.  I did this with an old 350
I had and it worked great.


     Glenn
     '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:56:22 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

thanks, guys for all the help, i really appreciate it!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:17:50 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: test, don't read 

working?
- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

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From: <jqbHau6rg@si1ngledigit.net>
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>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:19:54 -0500
From: "Kerr, Brian (R)" <kerrb@basf-corp.com>
Subject: Lost replies

People have sent me messages, and I have sent replies back to individuals, 
but it seems that some of them get bumped or lost in 'cyberspace'. Please 
resend me any messages or replies in the last couple of weeks, that I have 
not replied to.

Thanks

Brian Kerr
69 Cutlass Conv

(body rotisserie for sale)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:19:55 -0500
From: "Kerr, Brian (R)" <kerrb@basf-corp.com>
Subject: RE: H-Pipe

 I found the article, it cas an edition of "Hot Rod" 'How it works - An 
Illustrated Guide to How Cars Operate"

It was done on a stock 350
2" exhaust & mufflers
7.8:1 comp, small valves
mild RV cam for low end torque

Base results 240 HP @4500 , 331 Ft/lb @3250

2" Flowmasters
248 HP@ 4750, 333 Ft/lb @ 3000

Hedman Headers, 2.5 " Pressure Buster mufflers & pipes
264 HP @ 4750, 354 Ft/lbs @ 3000
 - with an increase in both torque an hp over the whole range

 Hedman Headers, 2.5 " Pressure Buster mufflers & pipes and H pipe
264 HP @ 4500, 352 Ft/lbs @ 3250
 - but with an additional increase in both torque (10 Ftlbs) and (2 HP) on 
bottom end

BJK

>There was an article recently in one of the magazines that compared the HP 
and torque when upgrading to headers, >performance mufflers, and adding an H 
pipe. The improvements were done in stages, on a done on a dyno, replicated 
etc. I cant >remember which mag it was, but I'll post the results if I find 
it. It did indicate that adding an H pipe caused a shift in peak HP and 
>torque, with an improvement in lower RPM torque. The results were enough to 
make up my mind to ad an H pipe to my system >when I upgrade.

Brian Kerr
69 Cutlass conv

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:44:58 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: H-Pipe

> Quandry:  If an H pipe equalizes the pressure between the two sides in a
> dual exhaust system.  Is an h pipe the point where a single exhaust is
> split into dual tips?  Just one of those things that make me say hmmmm....

        I don't think I'd call that an "h-pipe" by any means.  There's only one
pipe coming into it....hmm...maybe a "y-pipe"?  =B)
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:45:38 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: sounds

RCKTPWR wrote:
> 
> how bout 4 starters the 1st few lines of the Beach boys "409" I have the c/d
> and allways crank it up just for the 1st 10 secs!!!!
> Bernie

Bah! Pish-posh! I have the 45! Let me tell you, that's some nostaligia!

"These karn-sarned kids and their CD's! When I was your age, we had
vinyl records and I didn't hear no one complainin!"

How 'bout the one on my web page? I got plenty more where that came from
too!
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:47:28 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: H-Pipe

> horsepower at what RPM, torque at what horsepower.  All I know for sure is,
> that for this to work correctly, the h-pipe should be as close to the headers
> as possible.  Sometimes this will restrict transmission removeal, and/or
> starter removeal.  Since most of the time when you pull a engine or
> transmission, you generally drop the exhaust, so I never worried too much

        Ok, thanx Peter.  I am pretty certain I will be going with the "h-pipe",
so I'll let you know how it goes/sounds.  Of course, I'm sure any exhaust I put on
it will be quieter than the open headers I'll be using it to drive it the 10-15
miles from where I'm storing it back home or to an exhaust shop.  =B)
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:03:10 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: H-Pipe

> > Is an h pipe the point where a single exhaust is
> > split into dual tips?  Just one of those things that make me say hmmmm....
> 
>         I don't think I'd call that an "h-pipe" by any means.  There's only one
> pipe coming into it....hmm...maybe a "y-pipe"? 

I think a y-pipe is more appropriate to call it in this case.  One of
the Hot Rod type mags put out an article on the H-pipe exhaust a while
back.  The H-pipe supposedly gives you more torque on the bottom end,
but I would guess that would be minimal gains at best.  The V-8 straight
single exhaust puts out exhaust gasses at roughly 266 pulses per minute,
(at what rpm I can't recall, and I'm not going to sit down and
mathmatically figure that out right now) and with straight duals, it
would cut this in half, with 133 pulses per minute.  The less pulses per
minute, the "louder" it seems, but the better it flows.  With the
H-pipe, it will equalize these pulses, to some degree, and therefore
quiet the whole system down, compared to the same exhaust without the
H-pipe, yet not effecting flow, and hence with a better balanced
exhaust, better low end torque output.  That's the theory anyway. 
X-type crossover systems work on this principle too, siamesing for a few
inches under the car.

2 cents,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:09:53 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: sounds

> > how bout 4 starters the 1st few lines of the Beach boys "409" I have the c/d
> > and allways crank it up just for the 1st 10 secs!!!!
> > Bernie
> 
> Bah! Pish-posh! I have the 45! Let me tell you, that's some nostaligia!
> 
You wonder what the song would be like if they had waited a couple more
years to record it.......

"Well, I saved my pennies and my dollars too,
Before I knew that my dream would come true,
When I would buy a brand new 442......"

"My 4-barrel, 4-speed, dual exhaust, 442......"

Just a thought...

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:23:41 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold gaskets

- -----Original Message-----
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 06, 1997 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: Intake Manifold gaskets


>I put the same gaskets on my 71 350, and I kept the valley pan, and
didnt use
>the end seals, just very careful w/the rtv......
>Bernie
>71 350 into 86 Salon

Thanks Bernie, I'm going to try it this way. The one thing that could
happen I guess, is that the extra thickness will make the bolts a
little harder to line up.

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
OCA# 29770
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:34:03 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Olds Centennial stuff!

Well my order from Alpha marketing came in yesterday.  Their having a
sale on Olds pins and the "Setting The Pace" book only $12.95! 
Hell-of-a-book for $13.00! 

I added the pins to my web page so you can see them if you want to:

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/oldspins.htm


Can't remember the actual price, but it's only around $1.50 - $2.50!

- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:31:11 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Centennial celebration plaque

Yes I bought one of these beauties too!  If anyone has a 47' Olds and is
interested in plaque #1947, I would be willing to trade even.  You pay
shipping both ways.

Now that's what I call a "dash plaque"!

BTW...anyone know who got #442?
- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:47:16 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: TH200R- gear ratios. LONG

- -----Original Message-----
From: Igor <todorovb@cadvision.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, December 06, 1997 3:08 AM
Subject: TH200R-4 durability, shifting question and gear ratios.


>snip>
 The third question is if anyone knows, what are the gear ratios of
the
>TH200R4.

Igor,
Here is some excellent info posted by Tom Millard in September.

200-4R VERSUS 700-R4  - WHICH ONE SHOULD I USE BEHIND AN OLDS
Most people believe that the 700-R4 is better tranny than the 200-4R.
According to a recent Hot Rod Article "The Great Debate - 700-R4 vs.
200-4R
- - Which is the Better Overdrive", March 1995, "both can handle 600
lbs-ft or
torque and around 700 hp."  Therefore, all you have to do is pick the
correct
one for your Olds.  200-4R's have either a BOP bell housing or a
universal
bell housing (BOP & Chevy).  This makes it a direct bolt in for your
Olds.
It is the same length as a 350 and uses the same drive shaft, but has
the
mount for the cross member in the same location as a TH-400. As for
the
700-4R, it only has a Chevy bell housing so an adapter plate will have
to be
used.  It is also longer than a 400 by 2", so a custom length drive
shaft
will have to be made as well as the crossmember being relocated.
Below is a
chart which relates the lengths of the common tranny's to there tranny
mount
locations.

Trans       Overall   Rear Trans
            Length    Mount Position
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
TH350       27"       19.5"
TH400       28"       26.25"
TH200-4R    27"       26"
TH700-R4    30"       21.25"

200-4R VERSUS 700-R4 GEAR RATIOS
One important thing to look at while choosing an overdrive for your
Olds is
the gear ratios they have.  The 700-R4 has a huge jump from 1st gear
to 2nd
gear, which will hurt acceleration.. The car will really launch in 1st
gear
but puke when it hits 2nd.  I am not saying that you will be
dissapointed
with a 700-R4, but if you drag race the car at all the the gear ratios
should
be something to consider.  As for the 200-4R, the gear jumps are more
evenly
spaced out and it has a better overdrive ratio.  See the chart below
for
common trans gear ratios:

Trans             1st   2nd   3rd   4th
- ----------------------------------------
350               2.52  1.52  1.00  ---
400               2.48  1.48  1.00  ---
200-4R            2.74  1.57  1.00  0.67
700-4R            3.06  1.62  1.00  0.70

Since I chose a 200-4R, the rest of this will concentrate on that
particular
trans.

BACKGROUND:
To begin, the 200-4R is loosly based on the 200 metric with the
addition of
an OD drum.  Due to their relation to one another, the 200-4R has an
undeserved reputation of being weak like its notorious sister 200.
Although
the 200-4R will not hold up very well it its stock form,  there are a
few
modifications that will increase its strength and dependability.

INFO RESOURCE:
Most if the information I have gathered is from Mike Kurtz at PMAC in
Houston, TX and Level Ten Trans in NJ (www.levelten.com).  Most of the
guys
on the TR (Turbo Regal) mail list speak highly of both, and you can
get a
text file of 200-4R questions from the TR Web page
(http://ni.umd.edu/gnttype/www/buick.html).

CORES:
According to Mike, the most important thing in rebuilding a 200-4R is
the
core you use.  86-87 Turbo Regal (TR) trans are the best cores to use
while
the 85 and under TR's, Monte SS's and 442/Hurst's are the next best.
The
reason the 86-87 TR trans's are better cores is that they have a
larger
reverse boost valve, special governor, and a larger 2-3 intermediate
servo.
The 85 and under TR's, Monte SS's and 442's trans are very similiar,
and use
the same valve bodies (which is important) and and they can be
upgraded to
86-87 TR types with parts from GM.

CODES:
To determine what type of core you have or need, you have to look at
the
code.  This code can be found on the passenger side of the trans near
the
driveshaft and is attached with one rivet.  Sometimes these tags were
installed backwards at the factory, so it is possible that the code is
facing
the wrong way.  The tag is a small piece of aluminum that will be
either
natural & yellow or natural & blue and will have the 2 or 3 letter
code on
it along with the serial number stamped on it.  The serial number will
also
include the 2 or 3 letter code mentioned above.  This code is
EXTREMELY
important!    Most people do not know that there is a difference
between
these trans.  I've had people tell me that a "200-4R is
a 200-4R", and that is wrong.

Codes for 200-4R's:
** KZF - 442's
** CZF - Monte SS's
** BRF - Turbo Regals
** OZ - Hurst's
OM - 350 Olds Diesels
OG - 307 Olds
BY - 252 V6 Cars
AA & AP - Cadillac's
The codes marked with the ** are the ones with the better valve
bodies.  The
valve body itself will have the first two letters painted on it.  Be
careful
because the paint comes off easily.  The special valve bodies usually
have a
purple strip on them also.

VALVE BODIES:
According to Mike Kurtz, he has never had any success with any other
valve
bodies than the ones marked with asteriks above.  Although the casting
numbers are the same, I am pretty sure that the bore sizes of the
valves
within the valve body are different.  This makes a big difference in
the
shift quality of the trans.
*** UPDATE ***  I have heard stories of valve body surfaces not being
true.
This could cause pressure bleed over and inconsistent shifts, etc.
The tech at
Level Ten told me that he usually 'stones' (surfaces) the valve bodies
before reinstalling them.  Note:  I would also replace the plate
located
between the
valve body and case.  Mike Kurtz also recommends replacing the VB
gaskets every
time you drop the VB.

GOVERNORS:
The governor in a 200-4R determines the WOT shift points while the
location
of the TV cable determines the shift points at anything under WOT.
The
tranny's marked with an asterik above have special governors that will
shift
anywhere between 4800-5000 rpms at WOT depending on what they came out
of.
Stock governors on non-performance based cars shifted at 3000 rpm at
WOT.
This is important because with the 3000 rpm type governor, the trans
will
shift from 1-2-3-4 very rapidly which makes for poor acceleration at
mild or
light throttle.

UPGRADES:
There are a few common upgrades that most reputable trans builder
install in
200-4R's.  These include a 10 vane pump, heat treated stator, pressure
regulator valve, and a shift kit.

PUMP:
To replace the stock 7 vane pump, a 10 vane pump with heat treated
vanes and
steel rings are used. This reduces irradic pressure readings with the
addition of the extra vanes while the very brittle cast iron ring is
replaced
with a steel ring.  (This brittle cast iron ring is a common weak
point in
the 200-4R.)

HEAT TREATED STATOR:
If you look at the stator in a stock 200-4R, you will probably observe
extreme wear marks on the splines.  Art Carr claims that a worn stator
will
cause premature failure on the thrust bearing in the engine.
Therefore most
aftermarket companies sell a heat treated version to replace the worn
stock
one. This has to be pressed into the pump, and costs around $70.

PRESSURE REGULATOR VALVE:
To increase the line pressure and also reduce pressure fluctuations,
the
stock pressure regulator valve can be replaced with a 'performance'
one.
This costs around $20 and is available from Art Carr and Mike Kurtz @
PMAC.
*** UPDATE ***  My trans kept starting off in 2nd gear as well as not
shifting
at WOT from 1-2.  I spoke with a tech at Level Trans and he told me to
replace
the high pressure regulator valve and spring with a stock ones.  I
used a valve
and spring from my 86 Monte SS core and this completely solved my
problems...

SHIFT KITS:
There are a couple a kits available on the market, but the one most of
the
guys on the TR list recommend is the one from Mike Kurtz.  His kit is
modified Trans GO kit that works very well.  I have installed it on my
trans
and am very happy with it.  B&M also makes a kit that works well, but
a few
guys have had trouble with them.  As for the Trans GO kit, they
strongly
recommend you avoid this kit due to a missing parts, etc.  One of the
newer
kits from Trans Go has you drill the valve body itself which is bad
news
since you can never go back to where you started.  Keep in mind that a
new TR
valve body from GM costs over $500 with a $250 core charge.

DISCLAIMER:
I spent all last summer and this summer playing with my 200-4R and
spending
alot of time talking to guys on the TR list as well as to other tranny
builders.  Sometimes these tranny's can cause some grief but really
work
well when the bugs
are ironed out. Please keep this in mind before tackling such a
project....

RESULTS:
My 200-4R resides in my 403 powered 79 Cutlass.  The car is equipped
with
245 60 rear
tires with an overall 25.75" diameter.  I just installed 4.10's in the
8.5"
10 bolt and the engine tachs 2350 rpms at 70 mph in 4th gear!  With
28X9
slicks, the car crosses the traps in the quarter at 5000 rpm in 3rd
gear
(high 13's at 97 mph)

I hope this info helps....
Please drop me a line if you need any more info...
Tom Millard OLDSPWR@worldnet.att.net


Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
OCA# 29770
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:44:55 EST
From: ANTIQ OLDS <ANTIQOLDS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Beware of Brother's

In a message dated 97-12-05 22:38:11 EST, you write:

<< 
 I may be taking your meaning wrong, but I don't think customers should feel 
 they have to "walk on eggs" with any business or sales person.  After all,
what 
 "are" the "right questions"?  With my business, I encourage all my customers
to 
 ask any question(s) they might have.  That's part of the job. CUSTOMER
SERVICE! 
   >>
   My main reason for not wanting to say anything about Brothers was the fact
that I have never done business with them so have never been burnt. If I am
going to say anything negative it will be from personal experience.
  But you are correct Customer Service and satifaction are #1

Everett  OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:40:45 -0500
From: RC Hellebuyck <mrhell@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Attention K-Mart Shoppers...

Greg Beaulieu wrote:
>If anyone knows of someone selling one of the volunteer golf shirts, or
>the motorcade flags, let me know. Thanks!>


My friend and I both got one in lansing.  He said he would sell his,
(he's a f*rd man anyway), but he wouldn't tell me a price.  He said to
make him an offer. :(   I say offer him $25. Greg and see what he says. 

- -- 
RC Hellebuyck
1971 4-4-2 covt.

http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrhell/driving.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:10:07 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: RE: 1977 oldsmobile omega 305 v8 2bbl

>          When i try to start car, it makes a screaching noise.Engine will
not 
>turn over.

Well, you're not going to like this...

You've ground off some teeth from the flywheel on your car; repair involves
removing the engine or transmission and replacing the flywheel itself. This
damage is usually caused by inadvertently trying to start the car while the
engine is already running. Usually a problem in quieter cars, like the
newer Toyotas, which seek to disconnect you from the mechanical parts as
much as possible.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:35:32 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 64 442 f/s

>OK I have gotten some real slack on this message.Which I must say was 
>not even me. My so-called girlfreind wants me to sell the car which I 
>do not want to do...She writes the message and all hell broke loose. 
>I had to write an Apology to Greg for the problems. You guys are 
>probably so right about the compression ratio being that far off. 

No offense was intended by any responses; Just trying to set the facts
straight. Since you own an Olds, you're all-right by us!

>The heads only got put on the car because the guy at the machine shop 
>had SOLD my original 350 heads,sorry to say that I was pissed, but I 
>got stuck with these heads. She had not clue what Mondello was 

That's a real sad thing; don't know how places can do things like that.

>talking about. The reasons for the head gasket and deckin was just to 
>get as much as possible out of the heads with the Stock pistons. So 

That would be the best option; if you did surface the heads, and had
10.25:1 pistons, you'd end up with 8.5:1 compression, which isn't too bad.
It's that 7.5:1 compression with the 9:1 pistons that would be real bad
news...

>But anyway needless to say things between me and the girl are not too 
>good right now because I am not selling the car, but maybe I will 
>sell her..Bo takes the girl..
>1964 Olds 442 F-85

Well, if you are a lover of fine Oldsmobiles (which most people here take
to be a positive quality; it's not like you're addicted to crack or
something...), then she ought to love you for who you are, not who she
would *like* you to be. You have to seriously ask yourself what other
conditions might be imposed on her acceptance of you in the future. Thin
end of the wedge and all that...
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:29:30 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: OOPS!! Sorry about that (W-32 Qests)

>I have a ''70 Cutlass Supreme SX (W-32) that I am partially restoring. 
>Since I can't seem to find a whole lot of info. on this particular model, I
>was wondering if maybe someone could help.  Did the rear boxed lower
>control arms and anti-sway bar come standard on this model or were those an
>option?  The current rear lower control arms are not boxed and there is no
>sway bar, but someone told me that this was standard for this model.  My

This was *not* standard on this model; the only things that this option did
contain, that were different from the regular Supreme, were:

* 455 engine (your W-32 was an additional option on top of that)
* TH400 transmission
* 12-bolt cover rear
* Dual-exhaust with exhaust-cutout bumper
* "SX" emblems on the front fenders

Everything else would have been an option. My SX didn't have the handling
suspension either... :(

>father purchased the car new in '70 (contrary to the ads, yes, this WAS my
>father's Oldsmobile) 

Ah, so you inherited your good taste! :)

Sorry I can't help you out with the rear axle ratio; I've got an early car,
which came with the 2.56:1 ratio standard. I think the later standard L-31
455 cars came with the 3.08:1 ratio as standard.

>Also, where would be good place to find/purchase a Rallye Pack
>Guage setup (are they even available and rough estimate of how much they
>are if available), and a 4 spoke sport steering wheel?  Any help/info would
>be greatly appreciated.

There's some folks on the list (Jim, Everett, OldsGuy, etc.) who might have
some of these lying around for sale.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:54:33 -0500
From: "Kerr, Brian (R)" <kerrb@basf-corp.com>
Subject: Re: POR 15

My experience with POR 15:


2 weeks ago I applied POR 15 to the floor pan, front cowl area,  inside and 
outside firewall,inside of the dash, and the front edge of the dash where 
the windshield seals (windshield is out). Previously during the day, I had 
sandblasted from the seat back, floor pan, inside and outside of dash and 
firewall, front cowl area, and part way under the front of the floor pans. 
everytning that did not get POR 15, ws painted with BASF black epoxy primer. 
I sprayed the POR 15 unthinned at about 30 PSI. It came out very slow, and 
 looked like a pebbled finish, but 10 minutes later, it had flowed out to a 
very smooth, glossy finish. Because of the low pressure and thick paint, 
there was basically no misting of the paint. I finished spraying at about 
midnight Saturday, and when I came back at 5:30 am, the POR 15 had dried to 
a nearly rockhard finish. I had planned on appying the primer over top while 
it was still tacky, but 5 1/2 hours in an unheated shop and it was hard!, 
(it had been snowing most of the day Saturday, with about 35 F temps and 100 
% humidity) The base of the winshield and top of the cowl got scrubbed with 
a Scotch brite pad and reducer to etch it and everything else got the coat 
of epoxy primer (after I turned the heat up). On one section of the firewall 
where it was nice and glossy, I used a scotch brite pad to try and scuff the 
gloss off, and it was so hard that with full pressure on the pad under one 
finger, I could barely mark the finish. As I intend to put a semi gloss on 
the firewall, I will have to sand the entire fire wall with 600 grit before 
applying the top coat. I used 3/4 of a quart to cover this area with as 
heavy a coat as I could put on.

     What really impressed me was the flexibility of this material. In a 
paper coffee cup there was a thin coating on the sides and a layer on the 
bottom about 1/16" thick. I litterally had to grip it with a pair of pliers 
to  tear the layer on the bottom.

Some of it is still on my fingernails. I guess I'll have to let it grow out 
before I get rid of it. Scrubbing my hands 'down to the pink' finally got it 
off my skin, but it looked like a case of 'bionic dishpan hands' (and it 
hurt.. sniff sniff whine..)

My feeling on this stuff.... I'm impressed. I will be doing the frame and 
parts of the underside and rad cradle with the  1/4 quart of gloss and the 1 
quart of semi-gloss that I have left.

Brian Kerr
69 Cutlass Conv

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #992
********************************

