
oldsmobile-digest      Tuesday, December 2 1997      Volume 01 : Number 983



Re: need xpert valve help
Re: 86 salon =  442 susp ???'s
Spring Carlisle
Re: 1998 Oldsmobile.com
Re: need xpert valve help
Re: alignment
72 350 CRatio
SS3 Rims
Re: 86 salon =  442 susp ???'s
de-stroking
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: 1970 Rallye 350/  grills?
GM Blood
carb adjust
86 needs steering box?
1974 Cutlass Salon
1970 Cutlas Supreme
73 CS Grille needed
unsubscribe
larger cams
Re: 86 salon =  442 susp ???'s
Re: 1970 Olds 442 ( W-30 ?) For Sale
72 350 CRatio...
AT => MT
hydro-boost
alignment specs
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: Air cleaner woes
lack of Cutlass
Centennial plaques & banners available
86 needs steering box? C Witt
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Final Reply Xmas
Re: Questions...Rust, chrome and engines
Wheels for sale
Variable vane TH400 I.D.
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: 86 CS Steering Box
Toro oil pan
Re: Air cleaner woes
Re: Supremes vs Salons
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: "GM BLOOD"
Re: GM Blood

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:14:21 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: need xpert valve help

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Brown Witt <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>; me from
myself <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 7:51 PM
Subject: need xpert valve help


>I was having some #5 heads fitted with larger intakes from a C head,
and the
>machine shop called and said the larger intakes were too short.
According to
>the manuals, the #5 heads' intakes are indeed about 0.050" longer
than most
>others, including the C heads' intakes.
>
>snip>--
>Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca
[Lansing, MI]
>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

Chris, I'm no expert, but some of the #5 heads do have shallower
spring seats (about 09" though, not .050".  If you happen to have
these early heads, that could explain part of the proble. Either way
though, wouldn't the easiest solution be to deepen the seats with an
end mill?
I'm probably way off base here, since i'm only begin to learn about
these engines. I can wield a mean Bridgeport though :-).

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:09:19 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: 86 salon =  442 susp ???'s

Jason Adcock wrote:
> 
> RCKTPWR@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Where on y car would I look for the f41 code??  on the 86 that is.........
> 
> I believe on the sticker under the trunk lid.  I'm about a mile away from
> my car now, so I can't verify, but I think every feature installed is on
> that sticker: standard features, options, even paint codes.  Hope this
> helps.

Everyone I've seen including mine are in the trunk, on the lid...  

Still looking for the F41 packaged Cutlass, I haven't checked my own
yet, but everyone I've seen in the Junkyard (Cutlass that is) seems to
be missing the front clip, and those with a clip (far and few) rarely
have any suspension stuff left, even if it's the F41...  

Is there an after market package that will work like the F41, or an
upgrade to it??? <G>
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:24:46 -0500
From: "W-MACHINES" <W-MACHINES@prodigy.net>
Subject: Spring Carlisle

Where will you be at Spring Carlisle?
Kurt    W-MACHINES@prodigy.net
'65 Jetstar 1 4-speed                   '70 Toronado GT W-34 4-sale
'66 442 Sport Coupe 4-speed       '92 Achieva SCX W-41
'66 442 F-85 Deluxe factory L-69  '90 Trofeo

- ----------
> From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: parts voice answer
> Date: Saturday, November 29, 1997 11:04 PM
> 
> At 09:57 AM 11/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Jeff
> 
>         If it gives you a dealer name it's still available. If it says it
> finds no listing then there are non in current dealer inventory that's on
> the computer system. Yes we will be at the Springfiled Nationals. I'm
> bringing my 67 W-30, and we may vend some parts too. We're debating about
> that though. We will be at Spring Carlisle selling parts.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:05:58 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 1998 Oldsmobile.com

I got this e-mail tonight.  Maybe some of you other members got one
too?  Some interesting stuff.  Pretty cool site.  Check it out.
Mike Rothe

TalkWithOlds@giantstep.com wrote:
> 
> Easier to use...more informative...and a whole lot of fun.
> 
> The new 1998 Oldsmobile Web sites have arrived, and they're ready to serve up exactly
> what you're looking for. These new sites have been designed around the way you shop for
> a new car - from just learning about our cars and comparing window stickers, to
> participating in our Community bulletin boards for Oldsmobile owners and enthusiasts.
> 
> And when it comes to multimedia features and increased interactivity, we've made some
> enhancements you're sure to appreciate. New photos and 360-degree interiors of every
> 1998 Oldsmobile are included, as well as custom vehicle pricing, courtesy of Window
> Sticker+.
> 
> Finding information on every 1998 Oldsmobile is easier, too. Each vehicle can now be
> accessed from either www.oldsmobile.com, or from new individual vehicle sites. These
> can be found at:
> 
> Aurora:                                 http://www.auroracar.com
> Bravada:                                http://www.bravadasuv.com
> Cutlass:                                http://www.cutlass.com
> Intrigue                                http://www.intruguecar.com
> Silhouette:                             http://www.silhouettevan.com
> Eighty Eight, LSS and Regency:          http://www.olds88.com
> 
> 
> After taking in the sites, we hope you're as excited as we at Oldsmobile are about them.
> We would also appreciate any comments you may have. When you're at www.oldsmobile.com,
> go to "E-mail" to let us know what you think!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The Oldsmobile Web Team

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:17:01 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: need xpert valve help

> So, if the retainer to spring seat distance is just too small, the choices I
> guess are 1) new longer valves. Big bux. 2) retainers that sit higher. Pretty
> soon, the tip of the valve is buried though. 3) cut the spring seat deeper.

I'm no expert, but here's my thoughts.  I vote for checking for spring
bind at full open, and if it doesn't, then shim the exhaust spring for
equal pressure, and live on the Oldsmobile Edge.  If you are using
stock/a little stiffer than stock springs, then this might work with no
ill effects.  If you are using Whamadyne 9000# race springs, this could
pose a problem due to their increased spring diameter.  Of course, if
you are using race springs and a monster cam, I'd think seriously about
#3.  But that would be as a last resort.  Also, if you are using
pedestals, keep in mind THEY may need slight machining to keep the
preload.  Otherwise you'll shorten the effective duration and live with
a rattlesnake.  Which, by the way, could wreak havock on the exhaust
side, unless you cut .050 from the exhaust stems too.  If using
individual fulcrums, then never mind that last statement.

2 cents in the jar.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:37:31 -0500
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: alignment

Valiant's Mud Lab wrote:
 
> hi Olds Gurus,
> 
> I have a question on front wheels alignment:
> I took the SERVICE MANUAL SPECIFICATIONS ( CASTER, CAMBER,...) to an
> ALIGNMENT SHOP and ASKED them to use these figures to adjust my front end.
> WAS I RIGHT OR, AS THEY TOLD ME, WRONG BECAUSE THE CAR IS 25 YEARS OLD????
> 
> Thank you.

Well, I had new tires mounted on the Ninety Eight back in the early
spring.  They were wearing something terrible on the insides, so I
figured a front end alignment was in order as well.  I also took in my
shop manual and the mechanic ignored it.  He aligned the car on a
computerized machine and the oldest full-size Olds listing it had was
for 1985 or something near there.  So those are the settings that were
used.  I was told that these settings would make the car handle better
than the '67 settings and would take alot of the "sea worthiness" and
"play" out of it.  I did notice a handling difference at first.  And I
wasn't wild about it.  But over time I guess I've grown used to it. 
I've had an '85 Delta and I can say that I think the '67 now handles
more like my '85 did.  But if I ever get it aligned again, I think I'd
go back to the '67 specs (and go to an old-timer mechanic that doesn't
have a damn computerized rack!).

Paul
- -- 
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:52:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 72 350 CRatio

Who
knows, maybe there might even be a set of pistions to get what you want with
the heads you've got - certainly would be the economic way to do it.  You
might have to go with dome pistons if you have large combustion chambered
heads, otherwise some flat-tops could get you up as high as 10.0:1 or
thereabouts.  But you definately have to know what the volume of your
cylinder heads are before you order your pistions.  I've got an article
about this with a procedure for determining the volume of cylinder heads on
my webpage:  http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/  Look under the tech
articles section.
        Hope this helps, Joe!
=====================
What is that, Chevy-talk? Olds heads do not vary chamber size much unlike
Ch*vy. Olds pistons are almost NEVER domed, maybe in a full-race motor. The
only Olds motors to have a true flat-top piston [NO dish at all, no dome] were
the famed W31 of '68-70 or so and the Early ['66-7] 442s' 400 motors. All
others have some dish- from 5cc to oh, gosh, a lot, about 50cc I think in the
403 piston.

Usually, the Olds motors varied Cr by varying the size of the dish in the
piston. The only [much] larger heads in the Olds 350's were the smogger '73-'76
#8 units. The '72's #7a heads are fine, what you'd do to boost compression is
shave the heads a little and buy 'high compression' pistons. Most of the #5-#7a
350 heads are about 64cc.

One more thing to watch out for: most if not all piston makers/ sellers give
the compression ratio based on unrealistic head cc's. Do the calculations
yourself on your spreadsheet. It's not difficult. Basically, if they call it a
"10.2:1" piston, that means you MIGHT get to 10.2:1 *if* you have the smallest
heads you can get, shave them the max, use the skinniest gasket you can get,
and have LOTS of carbon buildup. Ask for the piston dish cc, that way we can
calculate the CRatio you can expect with your heads, a typical head gasket,
etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:51:31 -0500
From: Miguel Morales <miguel.morales@mci.com>
Subject: SS3 Rims

I thought I saw an ad in JWO in the last two issues for somebody selling
a full set of rims. Since my Hurst/Olds was recently recovered stolen,
could anybody with the phone number please email it to me so I can get
these. I cant seem to find my last few issues.

Here's some detail on what my car looked like after I recovered that car
last Friday. It had been gone since Nov. 13th.:


> The car's back, basically in one piece with a few scrapes around the
> front
> bumper and some scratches near the trunk where they stripped the
> stereo.
> Incidentally, looks like my homeowners will not cover these car-only
> stereos.
> Now there's a distiction between adaptable-power accessories and
> car-designed
> electronic equipment.
>
> Well anyway, they took a joyride, I've got two ugly wheels on the
> passenger side
> with no rubber left to speak of and probably one wobbly SS rim in the
> trunk.
> There's one missing that's presumably toast, probably the rear one
> since I think
> the one in the trunk is from the front. I haven't looked at the tire
> size. I run
> 215-65's in front and 235-60's in  rear. My wife told me that the
> driver side
> front SS looked a little shaky but I haven't looked at it closely, I'm
> having
> trouble dealing with this as it is. They popped the sheet metal up
> behind the
> passenger seat running over something  and there's some glass and
> paint dents
> near the driver side door. The ignition was popped-out and the cover
> around the
> steering column was shattered making a hole about 3 inches in diameter
> where I
> currently stick a screwdriver to start the car. The trunk lock was
> popped-out as
> was my lock on the gas-cap. But the thieves didn't make off with my
> t-top covers
> and I ended up with a brand-new Interstate battery. The chrome
> air-filter is
> still there too but I don't think these guys were looking for car
> parts.
>
> I'm going to need:
>
> A full set of rims which I may get from JWO ads. This may leave me
> with one that
> I can use as a spare since this rim might be the only staight one left
> with no
> scratches on it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:55:27 -0500
From: Jason Adcock <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 86 salon =  442 susp ???'s

Jerry Christopher wrote:
> 
> Is there an after market package that will work like the F41, or an
> upgrade to it??? <G>

I bet you can get something that will ~feel~ like the F41 suspension.  I'm
sure that if you've been on here long enough, you get tired of hearing me
talk about how much I love the PST bushing set I put on.  That really
stiffened up the car.  PST also sells sway bars, front and rear, for the
Cutlass that are the correct F41 size (1 1/4 front and 7/8 rear).  I don't
know about the springs.  I'm sure they're different, but I can't give you
any specifics here.  Definitely look into the bushings, though.  My CSC
only has 80-some-thousand miles on it and even with the F41 package, these
PST's really feel good.  Now, if only I could get my hands on the new
Edelbrock IAS shocks!  Does anybody know if they're making them for the
G-Bodies yet?  They're listed, but all the speed shops say that Edelbrock
hasn't actually started production on those specific ones, yet.  Thanks and
hope this helps.
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:56:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: de-stroking

   Hi, I seem to remember a conversation on the list awhile back involving
this, like the possibilities of destroking a 455 into a 445 or so, i think
that  would make a nice motor for the street, if anyone has any ideas on
how to do that I would give it a go when the money is here for it :) (AKA:
after my 350 is done) but what about destroking a 350? maybe around 330 or
so ci? I would love to have a 330 but have seen none around anywhere since
oldses don't seem to get into junkyards around here by cleveland :) but
other than that, I stroke my olds daily also
- - -josh
===================

Not really. There's 2 cranks for the big block: 4&1/4 stroke and 3.975.
Sticking the shorter in to the 455 makes it a 425. Gotta use the 425 rods &
pistons too.

there's but one SB crank stroke, 3.385", so except for exotic high-buck stuff,
no, you cannot just whip up a different small block by sticking a different
crank in there.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:57:20 -0500
From: Jason Labay <z28cfi@gwis.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

David, Terri and Rob wrote:
> 
> Jason Labay wrote:
> >
> > Trevor Lee wrote:
> > >
> > > > what's getting in the way.  Thanks for the tips, but the only thing I'd
> > > > take a BFH to is a Chevrolet.  Cheers.
> > >
> > >         I find it very interesting that so many guys on the list, with such
> > > consistency, are into "bashing" Chevys (some more literally than others as this
> > > quote from Jason Adcock shows =B)  Especially considering that the cars which
> > > you guys are talking about are so closely related to 'em.  I could understand
> > > bashing Ford and Chrysler, who, IMHO both made many fine musclecars as well,
> > > several of which I would be proud to own, but to bash other GMs??
> >
> > Trevor you bring up an excellent point, one I have been wondering about
> > since I joined this list back in May of 1995. I too wonder why there is
> > so much Chevy bashing here as you are correct in that the divisions
> > share parts that are interchangable. I don't know about you but I get a
> > kick out of it myself. I am in the process of building an 80 Olds drag
> > car for next racing season and haven't started the motor yet. Was going
> > to go the 455 route, but a new crate LS1 is much more tempting and I
> > would love the look on the Olds elite faces when I pop the hood. In fact
> > I can't see why I shouldn't go with the LS1. It is all aluminum and
> > light compared to the iron 455. F-bodies are running low 13's in stock
> > form with this motor...in a lightened G-body whis would hit high 12's
> > with ease just bolting it in. LS1 also has 6 bolt main caps for extra
> > piece of mind :-) For the price of a "nice" 455 build up I can get a new
> > LS1. Oh well I haven't even got the suspension done yet, let alone
> > worrying about the motor.
> >
> > Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
> > Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group, Inc.
> > 95 Impala SS
> > 80 Olds 442 W-30
> > 75 Hurst/Olds W-25
> 
> as an owner of a 6 speed '97 Camaro..believe me no one loves the new aluminum motor than me....this car flies
> and its only the LT-1...but I can assure you of 1 thing...when it comes time to re sleeve that aluminum motor you'll wished you had an iron block..

True, the 97 and 98 production LS1 block is thin walled and can only be
bored out .020 max to be safe. '99 and up blocks are getting more
material. This motor is stronger in many aspects when compared to the
LT1. Its main weak link is the piston and ring setup. Pistons are not
forged and not really feasable for high boost or big shots of NOS...just
like the LT1. The LS1 can handle 400 to 450 hp easily in stock form
provided pistons and rings are changed in high boost
applications....those two parts are the only weak link up to that HP
level. It is also easier to extract HP out of the LS1 as compared to the
LT1, but both seem to level off at 450 on stock components before
trouble starts. 

....and lets not forget about the weak link....the body flex....

Nothing subframe connectors cannot fix. Granted full framed cars are
more stable, as my 95 Impala is much more rigid than my 93 Z28 was. 

>00 rpm  at 80 mph....an extremely streetable ride....but what I like about the olds big >block is the abilty to cloud both tires through a stock 3.91 12 bolt posi...and never >touch the massive secondaries awaiting your beck and call....such huge amounts of >torque and horsepower just a touch away is incredible...I don't think for a minute we >will ever see this kinds of horsepower and torque in a vehicle for less than 60k..

Properly built up LT1 with a 9# or bigger blower will do this easily.
You don't even need boost as some NA LT1's are running high 11's on
stock bottom ends, driven daily. Many examples of this on the F-body
mailing list. Also see many examples of 5.0's that will run 10 and 11
sec et's all day and drive em home from the track. I was totally
impressed at the Mondello Olds Nats this year though with a few of those
big blocks running low 10's and that awesome torque twist off the line
with front wheels slightly in the air...damn I love that :-) 

Jason Labay (z28cfi@gwis.com) Akron, OH
Quality Engineer - TRW Automotive Group, Inc
95 Impala SS
80 Olds 442 W-30
75 Hurst/Olds W-25

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:55:10 -0600 (CST)
From: David Watkins <dwatkins@tulsa.oklahoma.net>
Subject: Re: 1970 Rallye 350/  grills?

I need both plastic grills. left and right. Over the years, the top have
been leaned on and broken. If you can help let me know. At 11:00 AM 11/24/97
- -0500, you wrote:
>what grills do you need?   steven.  w30442cs@aol.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:00:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: GM Blood

did you ever stop to think that there just might be many parts in our cars that
were mass produced for several of the divisons in GM??
==================

Yeah, we have. We use that to advantage in obtaining parts for the Cutlass
especially, and in selling parts from parts cars.

In fact one of the most annoying bits of info is that damn "CFD" cast into all
our Olds heads, blocks, etc. "Chevrolet Foundry Division". Just because this is
so does not mean you should rub it in. :-)

Wise man say, "Hole in donut and hole in toilet seat consist of same material;
however, you will not sell many donuts by advertising htis fact!"

Plus, perhaps you missed the earlier expose' on the dozens of subtle
differences, like rod bolts, size of bearings, rocker arm ratio, rocker arm
stud installation, etc. etc. etc.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:12:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: carb adjust

I have adjusted the idle on the carb, but the lever that contacts the idle stop
screw doesn't hit it until the car is really warm. If I try to push the lever
back toward the screw it doesn't want to move. It feels like it might be
sticking or something is holding the throttle open slightly.
=====================
Wow, you need to brush up on the fundamentals of carb operation! If you can't
take a course at the local school, at least read thru a Chilton's carb section
or something.

Meanwhile, we can help a bit. The idle screw you refer to as not contacting its
tab is the HOT idle screw, will not come into play until/ unless the choke is
fully off. The choke controls the hot idle cam, located on the RH side of the
carb, which has several steps to allow the idle to come down gradually as the
motor warms up. These steps will have a similar screw to sit on them, you can
adjust the hot idle speed with that.

Sounds like your choke might not be opening just right after the motor starts.
There's a vacuum diaphragm or two on the RH side of the car, too, whose job is
to open the choke to just the right point immediately after the motor starts.
See if they are pulling in as they should.

Also, the stepped hot idle cam is not FORCED down as the choke opens; the choke
can open and the stepped cam will not move until the screw is lifted, as when
you momentarily blip the throttle open to "kick down the idle. Clean the choke
mechanism on the side of the carb, watch for smooth operation. Engine off,
pretend it's on, and use your finger on the choke plate to move it to various
positions, then blip throttle and see if hot idle cam is where it should be.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:14:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 86 needs steering box?

The guy whose 86? needs a steering box:

Are you sure ut needs the whole box? Not just a leaky seal? My truck recently
blew out the Pitman seal, cost me about $15 to fix it, in place.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:23:51 -0500
From: "DAVID  BETZ" <dbetz@netwalk.com>
Subject: 1974 Cutlass Salon

I know of this 1974 Cutlass Salon 2 door that could be bought cheap.  Do
not know if runs, but know owner does not have title and wants to get rid
of it.  I can put you in touch with the owner if you email me privately if
interested.  Car is in Columbus, Ohio area near the zoo.

Dave Betz
dbetz@netwalk.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:32:04 -0500
From: jim meeks <jimmeeks@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 1970 Cutlas Supreme

I need to replace the front of hood chrome mouldings on my Cutlass
Convertible.  Also, need the burl inserts for the Instrument Cluster, the
lower dash and glove box and the console.  I got an automatic without the
Hurst Dual Gate shifter.  Any ideas where to find these items.  I'm stumped!

JIM MEEKS
1970 Cutlass Supreme Convertible 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:49:28 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: 73 CS Grille needed

Good evening all,

	I'm asking this whole list directly because I haven't been able to come
up with much on my own.

	I need help in finding the passenger side grille for my 1973 Cutlass
Supreme. If anybody knows where I can get one, has one, or knows someone
who does, I would be more than willing to put my money where my mouth
is.
	My only requirement is that it be in good condition. No missing ribs,
no cracks, no broken spring supports.
	It's kinda sad, the reason I need this. I had a little fun with the ol'
girl this winter. Her nose met with one too many snow drifts and that's
all she wrote. Now, I feel like going back in time and kicking my own
*ss for doing it. This was before I had the realization that I could
make a very beautiful and powerful car out this 24 yr old gal.

Oh well, thanx,
- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:04:03 -0600
From: "George Indermark" <gindermark@warpnet.net>
Subject: unsubscribe

the fantastic amount of e-mail generated by this site is just not worth it
for me.there is some good info, and references, but FAR too much "other
stuff"
i had 57 msg this am, and 77 msg this pm, with 8 others in the time it took
me to read the 77.
i have 65 cutlass
72 cutlass
2-67 firebirds
70 camaro
65 gto
62 t bird
92 annvy camaro
78 l camino ss
82 flt harley
etc.etc.
cannot handle the VOLUME of mail.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:05:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: larger cams

Now a question: has anyone out there had any experience with JM's larger
cams ? <SNIP>Anyone used the JM-22/25 or 25/28 ? Impressions ?
============
I used the 28-29 in the 78 race car's 425 motor. Stock Tor pistons, polished
rods, balanced, Toro oil pan... took about 1/2 sec off the time compared to the
unmolested 112K mile old 66 Toro motor it replaced- after a lot of fiddling. In
the low 13's, a half second is not that easy to come by either. It was a hella
rowdy idle, great fun the night we took it out for break-in at the local
hangout.

I used the 22-25 in my motor [see Bryce's web page 444.com]. Unfortunately, I
have not yet had any EXPERIENCE with that setup. The car has no PBrakes, just
PS, so vacuum is not a concern. It's a manual trans car, so stall speed is not
a concern. The gears will probably start out at 2.73 and become 3.90 later. If
I can figure a way to do it, it'll have cold air fed to the carbs, too.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:05:51 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: 86 salon =  442 susp ???'s

Jason Adcock wrote:
> 
> Jerry Christopher wrote:
> >
> > Is there an after market package that will work like the F41, or an
> > upgrade to it??? <G>
> 
> I bet you can get something that will ~feel~ like the F41 suspension.  I'm
> sure that if you've been on here long enough, you get tired of hearing me
> talk about how much I love the PST bushing set I put on.  That really
> stiffened up the car.  PST also sells sway bars, front and rear, for the
> Cutlass that are the correct F41 size (1 1/4 front and 7/8 rear).  I

The PSTs were actually more of a let down on my Mustang II than they
were good (at least for me), kinda left a bad taste in my mouth...  I
paid a butt load, and got better control, handling, and whatnot outta
another MII with bigger, wider tires, same motor, same steering, STOCK
suspension (135,000 on it too)....   I'd really like to know if anyone
else had a bad taste after trying PSTs in an Olds (Maybe it was just a
Mustang II thing! <G>)

- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:10:52 -0500 (EST)
From: DKlauber@aol.com
Subject: Re: 1970 Olds 442 ( W-30 ?) For Sale

I just missed a pretty strong #2 1970 W-30 conv. with 61k miles.  Only
problems was very minor paint bubbling and its color was ralley red (pretty
orange if you ask me)  I had the guy talked down to $15K.  $5K for what you
are talking about seems high to me

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:30:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 72 350 CRatio...

get your heads shaved at the machine shop, .030 to .060 off the surface of the
h ead will easily raised your compression to 10.5 or more. and it's lots
cheaper t han changing pistons, and lots less work. also consider a thinner
head gasket. i have found very thin solid copper head gaskets don't blow that
easy, and are re usable.
============
Hmmmmm... my calcs say....

The 350 pistons will have either about 16cc or about 24cc for LC. The 7a heads
should have about 64cc.

Assuming 64cc #7a heads, the 24cc pistons, .015 deck clearance, 10.5cc gasket
hole, stock bore:
Heads w/o cut yield a CRatio just over 8.0
Heads cut .020 yield 8.3 CR
A really heavy cut for an Olds would be 0.060, which gives 9.00 CR, and you had
   better cut the intake to match.
An absurd cut of 0.109" is required to get the CR to 10.00:1; I would think
this would probably get you cut into the water jacket by then.

on the other hand, if you purchase the 15-16cc pistons...

Assuming stock bore, same gasket, same heads...
Cut  CRatio
0    8.7
.020 9.0+
.030 9.24
.045 9.50  <--- Best realistic maximum
.068 10.00
.078 10.25 <--- What the piston mfgr says the pistons yield
.107 11.0  Not feasible most likely

 --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:37:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: AT => MT

Hi all
          i've got a  72 442 that was a 350 4spd car someone
          changed over to auto. as close as i can tell, the only
          olds specific parts i need to change it back is the
          bellhousing and the flywheel. is this correct? the car
Duane Miller
====================
Well, the only OLDS-specific parts would be the console and flywheel. I guess.
The bellhouse should work from any non-ch*vy GM car. The BOPCad bolt pattern.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:41:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: hydro-boost

Subject: Re: Hydro-Boost, was(Diesel brake conversion)

On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:25:34 -0600 katana72@juno.com (Rob T) writes:
>I had a 79 Diesel car that was converted to gas. It had a power
>steering pump that had an extra outlet that fed the brake booster.(
>Wish I had kept that assembly) It seemed pretty straightforward to me.
=====================
I saw a NICE 67 442 in St. Johns one day... 455 with big cam, fuel injection,
roll cage, and hydro-boost brakes. Nicely done very hot streetable car. I have
his Ph# if you'd care to talk to him.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:43:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: alignment specs

>WAS I RIGHT OR, AS THEY TOLD ME, WRONG BECAUSE THE CAR IS 25 YEARS OLD????
===============
Well, gravity's a lot stronger now than it was back then, so your alignment has
to be changed to accomodate that. I know gravity's stronger because I weigh
more than I used to. ;-)

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:24:43 -0500
From: theogns <theogns@avana.net>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

Especially considering that the cars which
> you guys are talking about are so closely related to 'em.  I could understand
> bashing Ford and Chrysler, who, IMHO both made many fine musclecars as well,
> several of which I would be proud to own, but to bash other GMs??  Yes there
> are differences, and yes you prefer the Oldsmobiles, but did you ever stop to
> think that there just might be many parts in our cars that were mass produced
> for several of the divisons in GM??  For all you know your car might have some
> "Chevy blood" in it!! 
> Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham

"Some men are Baptist, some men are Catholics, my dad was an Oldsmobile
man" quote from A Christmas story.

I own two 1970 4-4-2s one of which is a W-30. I can't think of any part
that has "ch*vy blood" in it. Some bolts and nuts maybe. Once upon a
time I liked ch*vies. I almost bought one. After I bought my first 4-4-2
I noticed ch*vy people cutting Olds down. I've heard so many evil things
said towards Oldsmobile from ch*vy people it's turned me against them.
So maybe it's not the cars fault, but the bad apples spoiled the lot. I
find about the only car people that are civil towards Olds are the buick
guys.(yes I spelled buick but I did not captalize.)Though for all our
fighting there will come a time when we will all pull together. When the
evil forces of Al Gore and Ralph Nader try to take our cars. We will
stand as one. 

BTW you may get a few hundreths quicker by upgrading from a rat to
hamster. :)

Danny

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:03:11 -0500
From: Joe & Toni Artwell <tjf26@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Air cleaner woes

Yesterday I
> finally got around to painting the air cleaner and adding the decals.
> Here's the problem:
> I trashed the silver 'rocket 350' decal.
> There are two reasons for this-
> 
> 1) The f'n thing started to wrinkle the minute I started to pull the
> backing off. Does anyone have any hints on how to get one of these on an
> air cleaner intact?!
I put one corner of the decal down and then use a auto body filler
applicator to smoth it out as I peel the rest of the backing off. It
works great and I don't get any air bubbles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:18:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: lack of Cutlass

Well, I  *cough*  don't have one at the moment either. After owning two
in succession, for over ten years, I figured it was... um... time to
give someone else a chance.  :-)
================

Hey, me too! I don't have a Cutlass, except for that parts car. And that other
parts car. And them over there. Nope, just 442's and a Toro now. Sold my 67
Cutlass Supreme a while back.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:22:05 -0500 (EST)
From: DByers4601@aol.com
Subject: Centennial plaques & banners available

I was a member of the Oldsmobile Centennial Team from 18 months prior to and
through the Centennial.
In ordering the set of videos of the Centennial Celebration from Alpha One
Marketing, today, I was advised by Bobbie, (at Alpha One), that Oldsmobile
has provided the balance of the Centennial "Dash" plaques to them for sale to
the general public.
I understand that the plaques are going for $40.00 per each.   They also
indicated that they have a number of the large, (31" x 94") Centennial
Banners that they are also selling to the public for $100.00 per each.
If people are interested, they can contact Bobbie at 1-800-338-2955  x-308
It was a pleasure to work toward the Centennial and to see so many of you
enjoying the event.
Keep those Olds's running !!!                 David_Byers@Bigfoot.com
    

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:25:42 PST
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: 86 needs steering box? C Witt

>>Chris  B. Witt wrote:

>The guy whose 86? needs a steering box:
>
>Are you sure ut needs the whole box? Not just a leaky seal? My truck 
recently
>blew out the Pitman seal, cost me about $15 to fix it, in place.

I was told that the valve inside the box is stuck open for the right 
side...is that the piutman seal? If so, how would I check? When I turn 
on the car, the steering wheel automatically turns itself almost 1/2 
around it seems like...any help is appreciated....

John Stolarski
The "Black Mariah"
86 CS

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:26:10 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

At 05:24 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
Danny

        Was the 9 second 64 442 up at Mondello Nationals? That was an awsome
car. 462 big block, TH400 and a 9 inch slick. Car ran 9.40 at 140 mph in the
quarter. The guy drove it to the track. It was up against a 70 442 that was
built to the hilt and yanked the front wheels 18 inches off the ground on a
LOW 10 second run. These things are impressive to watch. I do think your
right about the Chevy guy bring on the bashing due to their attitudes
towards Olds. And your definetely right about the buick boys. They do seem
to hang with us. There the ones who have the reputation of beating up Hemi's.

Jim Chermack


>"Some men are Baptist, some men are Catholics, my dad was an Oldsmobile
>man" quote from A Christmas story.
>
>I own two 1970 4-4-2s one of which is a W-30. I can't think of any part
>that has "ch*vy blood" in it. Some bolts and nuts maybe. Once upon a
>time I liked ch*vies. I almost bought one. After I bought my first 4-4-2
>I noticed ch*vy people cutting Olds down. I've heard so many evil things
>said towards Oldsmobile from ch*vy people it's turned me against them.
>So maybe it's not the cars fault, but the bad apples spoiled the lot. I
>find about the only car people that are civil towards Olds are the buick
>guys.(yes I spelled buick but I did not captalize.)Though for all our
>fighting there will come a time when we will all pull together. When the
>evil forces of Al Gore and Ralph Nader try to take our cars. We will
>stand as one. 
>
>BTW you may get a few hundreths quicker by upgrading from a rat to
>hamster. :)
>
>Danny
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:59:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Two72W30S@aol.com
Subject: Final Reply Xmas

In a message dated 97-12-01 16:02:13 EST, you write:

<< John Pajak wrote:
 
 >      Dear Santa, all I want for Xmas is an Olds Email list without:
 > 1) my xxxx is faster than your xxxx whining
 > 2) personal attacks
 > 3) personal business traffic (not counting 'for sale' lists)
 > 4) foul language (even with * in the spelling)
 > 5) days long debates on how to pronounce 4-4-2
 >
 >   Maybe you should join the Barney List! >>
Now what is that suppose to mean.  I have to agree, I have been on this list
since July 96 and this past month and half has been really absurb.

There is no need for fighting amongst Olds owners and to be truthful.  I
think
Greg needs to start editing membership here on the Olds list.  

Come on, this is getting tiresome of all the one word replies and short
bursts
of my car is faster and profane language.  So I encourage Greg to start
deleting members unless they have something of real importance related
to Oldsmobile cars, collectables or general olds info.  This is my opinion.

In the beginnig, this list was created to help Olds enthusiasts with
restorations
and modifications for street and racing.  Even for collecting olds items of
interest
such as Oldsmobile flags or video or even plastics and diecasts.  We need to 
revert to this and be a better family.  Give info on things such as Car shows

coming to area, or Toy shows or Car club meetings.

So everybody be happy and enjoy your olds from 1896 to 1998 and remember
I am not conceided, just convinced

Two72W30s and going back to W MACHINES 
in a month, (Mark Prince)
1972 442 W30 Race Rocket

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:14:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Barry <RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu>
Subject: Re: Questions...Rust, chrome and engines

>Well first of all those that may remember my 455 which got rebuilt about 6
>5 months ago now.  Due to a little mechanical problems I had while taking
 [snip]
>The only good news in this, is that the engine and exhaust stuff is still
>under warrenty and the rest of it is getting done by a knowledgable friend
>for cost of parts...*and* I get to hover over his shoulder too <grin>

Sorry to hear about your motor troubles, but glad to hear it's covered under
warantee. The noisy rockers/lifters could result if they aren't primed, or
if there is insufficient preload on the lifters.

>About the chrome...I'm not looking for replating the real chrome stuff, just
>that plastic chrome-look painted stuff which is around the arm rests in the
>door panel.  Anyway, I know the current solution is the silver paint pen,
>but it gives a silver look instead of the shiney chrome look.  Question is - I
>was browsing through the auto store this weekend and came across a
>can of 'chrome' paint.  Which is *supposed* to have the end results of
>shiney chrome.  Has anyone used this or something similar?  I didn't get a
>chance to buy the can at the time so can't give any maker or brand name. 
>I was just wondering if anyone has tested this with good results.  Either
>way I will probaby get some to test on a few bits of plastic to see the end
>result before getting it anywhere near the car.

I've tried this kind of paint before, and I've been nothing but
disappointed. All it comes out as is silver paint, lacking any chrome-like
gloss whatsoever. I get the impression that anything less than rechroming
ends up looking like something less than chrome.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 23:23:57 CDT
From: knightvd@norand.com
Subject: Wheels for sale

     Anyone interested in a set of polycast wheels with center caps for 
     71-7? full size Olds, make me an offer.
     
     Call or email, Vince Knight 215-799-0726, knightvd@norand.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 13:50:33 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Variable vane TH400 I.D.

Karl Aune wrote:

I have not been able to confirm that Soylent Ocean Mist has a variable-vane 
converter or not (not knowing what one is supposed to feel like I fear the 
original may have been "mislaid" by an unscrupulous mechanic.
     
     Karl,
     
     Easy way to tell:  Pull the electrical connector off the side of the 
     trans case.  A run-of-the-mill TH400 will have a single spade terminal 
     protruding from the case (to activate the kickdown solenoid valve).  A 
     switch pitch (aka variable vane) trans will have two terminals (one 
     for kickdown, one for vane angle).
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:40:18 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

Mike Rothe wrote:
> 
> non-Olds in good fun.  Oldsmobile's been the red-headed step child of GM
> for a long time, so we're just giving something back.  :)  I don't think

Ya gotta watch those red-headed folks!  We tend to have quite a bit of 
spunk! :-)

Chris Sparks (Yes I am red-headed)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:18:00 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: 86 CS Steering Box

> > now need a new power steering box...so, whats the question you ask? Is
> > there any difference between a 1986 Cutlass Supreme steering box and a
> > 1986 442 steering box? Would I be better off putting in a 442's, would I
> > get a little better steering response out of it?
> Well, the 442's had a quicker ratio box that was the same as the CS box if
> you have the F41 suspension.  I have this package and the steering is very
> quick.  The replacement of the idler arm made a big difference in the feel
> and the PST bushings I had installed made a big difference in the
> response.  I'd guess that the 442's quicker ratio box would feel much
> better than the regular one.

        Ok....I know where there's a '77 4-4-2 that's just rotting away.  I
was thinking about getting the hood from it because it doesn't have that strip
of metal trim down the centre (if I have to cut the hood) and now I'm thinking
about the steering box....how could I tell if it's a quick-ratio one??  Did
they have them back then??
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:33:19 -0800
From: Chris Miller <cya442@mindspring.com>
Subject: Toro oil pan

I am getting ready to do a small rebuild on my 455 and would like to put
on a Toro oil pan, the extra quart is a welcome addition.  I am looking
for any tips on this procedure, ie: misc. needed parts (beside the pan
:) and where to pick-up these parts!  I am also looking for anyone with
a extra pan.  Any and all help is again greatly appreciated.

Chris Miller
'68 442
cya442@mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:34:42 -0500 (EST)
From: CCRR12@aol.com
Subject: Re: Air cleaner woes

I learned from a friend in the sign business a simple rule. When in doubt
start and
finish all decal applications with warm soapy water. It will soften up the
adhesive and allow you to move and adjust decals to their final position.
Wipe off excess moisture and let dry. 

Randy in Okla
57 88
49 F-1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:56:17 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: Supremes vs Salons

> > for example, was a complete ralley gauge package available
> > in the Supremes?
> For 1976? Yes; I owned one. The left-hand pod held the speedometer
> as usual; the right-hand one, instead of a huge fuel gauge, had three
> smaller ones: Fuel, Temp and Oil Pressure. I took mine out one day
> and painted the needles with fluorescent-orange enamel, a major
> improvement over the old white-pointers-on-a-white-scale.
> Unfortunately there was no tach there. I went to Radio Shack (or

        Aww, nutz.  I hope that just means, though, that you didn't have
one in yours...I hope it was an option...I'll have to maybe go by GM and
see if they can give me any info...they might even have an old
discontinued part number perhaps!

> The quickest way to tell at a glance from outside whether a Cutlass
> from (I think) '73-'77 has the gauge package is to look for the
> little Seat Belt reminder lamp housing installed on the _top_ of the
> dashboard, front and center, plainly visible from outside. The big
> basic fuel gauge had the Seat Belt lamp built in, but the full gauge
> package did not, requiring this separate lamp to be stuck on top.

        Great, thanx, Andrew!  I'm still gonna keep on the hunt for that
tach, though...if I could find a factory one that would be cool....it
mentions it in the Haynes manual, so ya never know!
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:09:02 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

> kick out of it myself. I am in the process of building an 80 Olds drag
> car for next racing season and haven't started the motor yet. Was going
> to go the 455 route, but a new crate LS1 is much more tempting and I
> would love the look on the Olds elite faces when I pop the hood. In fact

        Yea....I'm probably going to have to get used to that look at cruise nite
this coming year  =B)  But I look forward to it with eager anticipation to tell you
the truth -  I think/hope that anyone who is any sort of a car buff/enthusiast will
appreciate the work I've put into this all-GM project  =B)  what with the clean-up
and painting I'd say it looks pretty good - certainly a lot better than I was
expecting at first..that's why it never made it back on the road in '97
he-he-he...but it'll be worth it.

> I can't see why I shouldn't go with the LS1. It is all aluminum and
> light compared to the iron 455. F-bodies are running low 13's in stock
> form with this motor...in a lightened G-body whis would hit high 12's
> with ease just bolting it in. LS1 also has 6 bolt main caps for extra

        I'm hoping to pull high 12s too...but I have just a COUPLE more pounds to
pull down the track in that amount of time  =B)

> LS1. Oh well I haven't even got the suspension done yet, let alone

> 75 Hurst/Olds W-25

        Jay, I just wanted to ask you a couple questions in regard to the above
quoted car.  I know you weren't talking about the suspension on this one, but I
wanted to ask you first off if you've done anything in the way of
mods/improvements/upgrades to it to make it handle better and if you've found
anything that works really well.  I'm thinking about going with polygraphite
pushings/etc, but I just wanted the imput from someone who's got one of the cars of
this vintage before I lept into the $1000 project that I'm planning for the
suspension.
        Also, I'm wondering about the gauges in the '75.  Ok, speedo on the left,
right?  What's on the right?  Do you have a tach??  I am desperately trying to find
out if the '73-'77 Cutlasses came with an optional tach, cause I'd KILL to get my
hands on one of those!!  I've found out that you could get a gauge package in place
of the fuel gauge with the oil water and volts, but I really would like a tach if at
all possible.  =B)
        Also, what does was W-25 option?  If I'm not mistaken I know the W-30 and
W-31 were the engines, is the W-25 just a slightly lower-performance 455?
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:18:14 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

> time I liked ch*vies. I almost bought one. After I bought my first 4-4-2
> I noticed ch*vy people cutting Olds down. I've heard so many evil things
> said towards Oldsmobile from ch*vy people it's turned me against them.

        Exactly...same thing I was commenting on in my original message only in
reverse.  A GM car is a GM car.  I don't believe in cutting down any of their
divisions - I like the cars from all of 'em.  It's kinda good having all the
different divisions because you have such a wide variety of cars to choose from, yet
you know what you're getting into right away.  It's not like switching to a
different manufacturer and finding out it's crap.

> So maybe it's not the cars fault, but the bad apples spoiled the lot. I
> find about the only car people that are civil towards Olds are the buick
> guys.(yes I spelled buick but I did not captalize.)Though for all our

        Well, how about this - in my family we've got a '76 Monte Carlo, a '76 Olds
Cutlass and a '76 Buick Century.  Who am I supposed to fight with then??  =B)

> BTW you may get a few hundreths quicker by upgrading from a rat to
> hamster. :)

        Considered a hedgehog but the price was too high, besides the little buggers
make a real mess of the engine bay!!  =B)
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:23:49 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

> I have a '76 GMC truck with the 502 Chevy BB.  It was a lot easier to
> install than a 455.  But I do have a 71 OG Olds TH400 behind it.  I like

        Does the 502 have the universal bellhousing flange?  The only engine I've
known to have that was the Oldsmobile DRCE blocks.  I'll be surprised if you tell
me that the 502 has that too!  (or do you have an adapter plate in there?)

> Chebbys, Fords and other makes, but I love Olds the best, and I'm proud
> to say so.  So what if other makes are GMs?  I don't revere the Chevy
> Metro.  It's GM.  Sorta.

        Ha-ha-ha...good one.  Well...that's a different story.  Although it's a Geo
Metro, it's the same as the Chevy Sprint, same as the Pontiac Firefly, same as
the........    nonetheless, that's not the kind of cars I'm into...I'm talkin RWD,
of course.  I'm not all that interested in the newer FWD computer controlled ones
(not even really interested in the RWD computer controlled ones!).--
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:31:25 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: "GM BLOOD"

Jason K. Adcock wrote...

> Yeah, don't think I'd ACTUALLY bash a Chevy with a BFH, I was just making
> some fun.  Seriously, what I don't like (and actually did before, but now

> The reason I bash the Chevys is because they have the reputation of being
> the "cheap" GM brand.  I have respect for them, though, as my friend's 87

        Yea, they do seem to be the more common division, by far.  That's part
of the reason why, although I really like the styling of Chevelles, I didn't
want my first car to be one (at least not a late 60s early 70s one) because I
would have to do too much to it for it to be "special".  The only Chevelle I
was considering was an early one from the '73-'77 generation, but someone now
has a '73 SS 454 at our Cruise Nite.  But, with my Cutlass, I'm going to be the
only guy with a car like it at the Cruise Nite this year...let alone the only
one with a detailed BB Chevy tucked away under the hood!!  =B)  Man I can't
WAIT for spring!!

> Monte Carlo SS would whoop up on my Cutlass.  I have a Pontiac limited-slip
> axle in my 84 CSC, but I'd still give a Pontiac person a hard time, just as
> a Pontiac person would give me a hard time, even though he might have a
> late-70's Trans Am with an Olds 403 in it.

        Exactly...this is what I'm talking about...the parts are
interchangeable...so lets not fight...why don't just swap parts intsead?  =B)
j/k  I really do appreciate the point of view from everyone who's posted to
this thread, though.  Thanks guys.
- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:44:16 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: GM Blood

> In fact one of the most annoying bits of info is that damn "CFD" cast into all
> our Olds heads, blocks, etc. "Chevrolet Foundry Division". Just because this is
> so does not mean you should rub it in. :-)

        I never knew that...hmm...I'll have to remember that.  =B)  j/k

> Plus, perhaps you missed the earlier expose' on the dozens of subtle
> differences, like rod bolts, size of bearings, rocker arm ratio, rocker arm
> stud installation, etc. etc. etc.

        No, Chris, I didn't miss it.  I realize the engines are one of the most
varied things about the cars...it's almost what defines each car as being so
unique...from the bellhousing difference between Olds/Buick and Chev/Pontiac to
Buick's apparent relation to Ford with their front-mounted distributor, and the
distributor rotation direction difference of Olds/Pontiac (counterclockwise) and
Chev/Buick (clockwise).  But one thing that they ALL share which shows that even
the engines indeed are related in some way is the good ol' GM V8 "1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2".

- --
Trevor Lee (aka Screech), Owner - TL Tech
Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/
mailto:lee@mergetel.com
Welland, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #983
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