
oldsmobile-digest      Sunday, November 23 1997      Volume 01 : Number 967



Re: Lexus bashing - LONG 
Re: fast coolant
OEM??
Re: OEM??
Re: Lexus bashing - LONG 
Re: I'm ready to pull my hair out....
UNBOUNCE: RE: G-body parts source
Re: 69 Olds Hood
Re: 55' Packin' 455
Re: TH350 shifting wierd..
Re: 55' Packin' 455
Re: Vin decode please
'54 Olds for Sale
RE: breather elements
Re: 80's 442/Hust VIN decoding
Re: Odd parts for '72 442 needed/  found!
Re: '69, '70 Junkyard Toros...
Re: Odd parts for '72 442 needed/ found!
Re: Advantages of valve size..(was: E heads Big vs Small  valves and WTB(455))
Re: Parts 
3-on-the-tree
HP Rating on 73 Olds 88?
Header recommendations
442 identifiers
Re: Header recommendations
Re: Just shifting wierd..
Re: 442 identifiers
Re: breather elements
lexus bashing
Code 45 - Rich
Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)
EGR Valve
Re: intake_manifold
Re: Breather elements
Re: Brake ? for '72 442
Re: olds help, ?'s, info, goodies
Re: Phantom 57
Re: Vin decode please
Re: Code 45 - Rich
Re: Header recommendations
refinishing aluminum rims
Re: picking a lock
Re: EGR Valve
Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)
Re: Code 45 - Rich
Re: Header recommendations
Re: Header recommendations
Delta Conspiracy
Oldsmobiles Available
PARTS: New Items
Re: yea you think youre into olds
Flat top pistons
Re: yea you think youre into olds
Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)
Re: Bashing
Re: '69, '70 Junkyard Toros...
Re: yea you think youre into olds
Re: Just shifting wierd..
Re: Parts 
headers revisited

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 02:43:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Wong <brougham@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Lexus bashing - LONG 

Hi Hans,

> Nothing new here!  Actually, the new Cutlass/Malibu resemble each other about as
> much as my 70 Cutlass resembles a (GASP!!!) 70 Malibu!

Actually, I _think_ the '70 Cutlass and Malibu used different sheetmetal
for the hood, fenders and quarter panels, something which cannot be said
for the current versions of those cars!

> Don't get me wrong, I love the old cars but lets face it all cars of a given
> generation have tended to look generically alike.

Good point; to the casual observer, cars from an unfamiliar era all
look "alike".  After studying photos, attending car shows, and reading
books, one can often begin to appreciate the differences in design.  It is
one thing for a car to be fashionable by incorporating certain design
features like flush headlights, door-into-roof styling, smooth side
glass, or the latest trend, projector style headlamps.  Clearly, the
Japanese automakers are chronic copy-cats; if one were to mix an '89
S-class B*nz and BMW 735i, then bake on high, you'd get something
closely resembling an LS400.  Look at the new for '97 C*mry; notice how
it looks like the old Acc*rd!

> My wife has a '90 Accord (she got it befor we met).  It has 115000 miles.  It
> has never been to the dealer.  The ONLY thing that went wrong was the
> speedometer sensor broke.  I replaced it in 15 minutes.  The part cost $100. 
> Its gets 30 MPG at 80 mph with AC on on long trips.  It's backseat has more room
> than my '70 Cutlass.  Brakes last 60k miles.  The interior shows no wear except
> some dirt in the carpet.  No cracked dash, no droopy headliner, no loose
> turnsignal stalk.  The red metallic paint is like new.  Absolutely ZERO style,
> but a great car.

Although it isn't very scientific to quote one example as being
representative of a model's entire production, allow me to counter this
with some facts pertaining to a friend's '90 Acc*rd, with slightly more
mileage.  His particular car has gone through 4 batteries, a master
cylinder, 3 igniter modules (BTW, I refuse to believe that one of these
didn't fail on the above mentioned car!), 1 distributor, 2 wheel
cylinders, both front drive axles (the boots cracked, but before this,
there was a bad vibration in the front end due to excessive clearances - I
wonder why Honda insists on making their own shafts), front rotors were
turned twice then replaced then turned again, chronic front-end alignment
problems which would require bending the chassis to fix, 2 engine mounts
(replacement of the rear electric 2 position mount was lots of $$),
broken temperature control cable, exhibits problems starting when below 32
F, steering rack (began leaking), the carpeting on 2 door panels has
fallen off, both electric cooling fans have been replaced, the A/C has
been serviced twice (I understand most of these have leaking problems),
crankshaft seal leak (too expensive to fix) and finally, the vehicle speed
sensor also failed.  The original paint on the hood, upon close
examination, is cracked from excessive engine heat, and the right rear
quarter panel has rust bubbling out from _within_ the metal despite being
Florida driven regularly.  I must say that their '77 Custom Cruiser
(Ontario driven) has been the better car; at 226,000 miles, it still has
the original engine mounts, driveshaft, perfect alignment (doesn't
change), distributor, rear wheel cylinders, etc.

Someone else's '93 Accord (currently at about 60,000 miles) had a leaking
crankshaft seal when new, the radiator burst suddenly not too long ago,
blows blue smoke briefly upon startup, and has already had the A/C fail.

> sedans are a status symbol now because all the German and especially Japanese
> midsized sedans of the 80's which generally could be driven 200,000 miles or
> more with no major work. 

I consider changing the timing belt to be major work!  <g>
My Aunt's '84 Camry, having gone through 2 transmission rebuilds in 75,000
miles, in all probability will not reach 200,000 miles without plenty of
repair work!

Kevin Wong       mailto:brougham@geocities.com       Toronto, Ontario, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 03:10:59 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: fast coolant

Jerry Christopher wrote:
> 
> dana@asicstiger.com wrote:
> 
> > I'm sorry, I must dispute that claim of 1.2 million hp.  everyone knows the
> >       toro cam doesn't have enough duration for more than 1.187 million
> >       horsepower.
> 
> Huh?  My manual says it can handle 1.1895 HP....  Oh well....

Have you completely lost it?!?  The .550 lift cam is good for 1.187 HP,
but the .590 is good for 1.905!  The .590 lift cam, with a forged
piston, all-aluminum cylinder head, 2.02 valves, Paxton supercharger,
*plus* nitrous should be good for almost 1.3 million!

After all, it worked on my smogger 307!!!


S. Dave Ward   mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net 

'78 Delta 88 (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4 (305 TBI)

(Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 04:47:42 -0400
From: dfsval@maracaibo.dowell.slb.com (Valiant's Mud Lab)
Subject: OEM??

Here is my stupid question for today: what does OEM mean?

Alain

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 07:50:28 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: OEM??

On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Valiant's Mud Lab wrote:

> Here is my stupid question for today: what does OEM mean?

Could mean a lot of things I guess, but around here it stands for 
"Original Equipment Manufacturer".

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:02:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Lexus bashing - LONG 

The last thing I want to get into here is a long litany of good 
experiences vs. bad experiences with certain non-Olds brands -- save that 
for the newsgroups please -- but I can tell you that my one and only 
experience with a Japanese car (a Toyota MR2 purchased new and serviced 
at the dealer constantly) proved it was far less than bulletproof. 
Certainly not what I expected from the reputation one hears. There is no 
doubt that in the decade from the late 70s to the late 80s the domestic 
manufactueres had their problems with quality and reliability. But keep 
in mind the changes they were coping with then, some of their own making 
(the GM reorg for example) and the external things that were influencing 
them (the move to FWD designs, the need to downsize and reduce weight, 
etc.) and some of the problems were understandable. 

One of the big things that often gets overlooked is how the influence of 
the finance types in the big 3 domestic makers during this time overtook 
the engineers and "car guys" who used to play such a big role in how the 
products turned out. Cost-cutting and general "cheapening-up" of vehicles 
contributed to some of the dissatisfaction with their products during 
this time. But a lot of factors came into play, and they should be 
congratulated at least for the turnaround of late. 

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:06:41 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: I'm ready to pull my hair out....

On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Dave Ward wrote:
> right-front corner of the car, breaking the turn signal lens (and
> socket), plastic trim, and put a nasty scratch on the paint.  Of course,
> I wasn't impressed...but it made me laugh to see pieces of a Toyota
> Supra tail light lens scattered on the ground...

Sorry to hear it Dave... if you can't find anything locally let me know, 
I might be able to track some pieces down for you.

> tomorrow for the assorted parts...but GET THIS...as long as I've had the
> car, the speedo bulbs have never worked...until now!  Why tear apart
> your dash?  Save yourself a headache and have some ditzy blonde run into
> it!

LOL! Maybe that's what I need to do... those dash lights will drive you 
batty on these things. One of mine packed it in last weekend again, but 
started to work last night too. Maybe it's the phase of the moon... :)

> I've just about had enough of fixing this car...if it costs me another
> dime before March, it'll carry on life as a boat anchor.

Nah... I get that way sometmes too, but give it time... you'll turn 
around again soon! :)

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:08:31 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: UNBOUNCE: RE: G-body parts source

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:	Jeff Dick <JEFFREY.A.DICK@cpmx.saic.com>
Subject: RE: G-body parts source

Tom:

I recently replace most of the weatherstirpping around my 86 Salon 
(including around the T-tops), grilles  and some trim pieces (internal and 
external).  The best source I have found is World Chevrolet [ sorry purists 
out there, I had to use the Ch*v* word, it is part of the name  :) ]. in 
Florida.   Anyway, guy down there by the name of Robert Van Der Ploeg is 
there parts guy who works the internet connection.  He sells parts  at below 
wholesale and with no shipping or taxes.  Good quick service.  Havn't found 
anything yet that he couldnt get. or a better price elsewhere..

You can contact him at 1-800-756-2438, web site  www.worldparts.com, e-mail 
 macvdp@worldparts.com.

Good luck, if you need any additional info, e-mail me direct.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 97 7:51:33 EST
From: Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net>
Subject: Re: 69 Olds Hood

At 10:45 AM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>---Glenn Connors <gpc442@buffnet.net> wrote:
>    Well, I'm pretty screwed up here....I thought that what I have and
>have advertised as a '70 hood (as I was told) may actually be a '69
>hood.  It has a single raised area and stamped-out vents on left and
>right sides parallel to the windshield. When I got the correct hood
>for my '69 4-4-2, it placed and latched the same as this hood does
>except that it has two raised panels that are left and right of the
>center line and the vent areas again parallel to the windshield have
>rectangular cutouts to except the chrome vent pieces and their trim. 
>Somebody straighten me out here!!  What is this good looking black
>hood that I have leaning against the wall of my garage that's
>for sale (supposidly as a '70 Cutlass hood).
>
>
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>      Here we go:
>      There are 2 hoods for 69: a 'flat' hood with one raised area used
>on 4 doors, wagons and Supremes, and a hood with 2 raised areas used
>on Cutlass S and 442 models. ALL have the latch piece which hangs down.
>      There are 3 hoods for 70: a 'flat' hood with one raised area used
>on 4 doors, wagons and Supremes, a hood with 2 raised areas used
>on Cutlass S and 442 models, and the fiberglass OAI hood. ALL have a
>square hole on the underside to accept the latch.
>      So what you have is a 69 Supreme/4 door hood !!!!!!!!!!!


   Hi John,

        Thanks for straightening me out on this hood.

   Glenn 
   '69 4-4-2

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:32:22 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: 55' Packin' 455

I was able to locate some W-30 exhaust manifolds which worked out
beautifully.

If you can find any Olds with a 400 or 455 engine and dual exhaust, it
shoud
work.  You might also look for headers pre-made for 442's.  I think
Hooker has
them.  Not sure about clearances though.

Good luck.

Gary

Boaz32@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-11-16 10:29:02 EST, you write:
> 
> << No matter what you do, the clearance between the exhaust manifold and
>  steering box
>  will be an issue. (Unless you do the front clip)  I decided to replace
>  the power
>  steering with a manual box.   >>
> 
> My 55' has manual steering...that will help.  I guess headers would be a
> tough addition...any comments?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:31:44 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: TH350 shifting wierd..

> I knew the tranny was certainly starting to wear...this was it's first
> tranny service, with 20 years and 183,000km behind it.  These filings
> were extremely fine...almost like a gray silt or powder.  Could this be
> from the bands slipping during a shift?

Could be.  The "gray silt" as it were, which looks like mud, is friction
material from the clutches and/or bands.  Some wear is normal, but as
the silt builds, the transmission tends to slip a bit more, therefore
more silt produced.  A small amount seems to always be present in
"normal" trannys, although if a whole lot is found, it could work it's
way into the filter, clog it, and you know what that means.  The factory
has built in heavier springs and smaller fluid ports, etc, to SLOW the
shift process somewhat, to give you a smoother shift.  This means more
slip as the tranny shifts.  Which more wear will occur.  Those
street/strip type trannys and kits give you the bang shift, which,
believe it or not is GOOD for your tranny.  (the U-joints might argue
with you on this)

Transmission problems aren't always easy to diagnose, and the CERTAINLY
are not easy over the internet.  I'm no expert, but I've rebuilt a few
TH400's over the years, and I've seen some sick ones and good ones.  The
most common occurance of trans problems I've encountered is clutch burn
due to overheated transmission.  There is truth to the fact that you
must keep an auto transmission cool at all times.  Upwards of +250
degrees, and you may start to have problems. "normal" op temps for
TH400's are in the 210 degree range.  I installed a cooler and trans
temp guage in my 71.  I put the guage in the OUTLET of the transmission,
to see how hot the fluid is leaving the trans.  So far the hottest I've
ever seen after some hard use is 182.  And it's been working great since
1992.

2 cents.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:36:42 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: 55' Packin' 455

No it's not.  Tried to find the catalog that I know has the manifolds in
it, but
it is no where in sight. 

Good luck.

Gary

Boaz32@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-11-16 10:29:02 EST, you write:
> 
> << Offenhauser intake sporting dual Carter AFB "Quads" >>
> 
> Is your intake a "tunnel ram"?  I would like to find a dual quad manifold
> that is NOT a tunnel ram type...some thing sim. to the old Ford 427 set up.
>  Do you know of one?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:39:52 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: Vin decode please

deirdre. reilly wrote:
> 
> 
> Here's the Vin 3N39KF140718.

According to your VIN, it's a 1975 Delta 88 Royale Hardtop Sedan with
the L34 350 4bbl

- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:40:31 -0800
From: Gary Andresen <gandresen@ibm.net>
Subject: '54 Olds for Sale

Thanks, Tom and F Y I to Olds list
=========================

Subject: 55 Parts Car
   Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:36:42 -0600
  From:  Tom Williams <tjwilli@Megavision.com>
     To: gandresen@ibm.net


I am responding to your search for a 55 Olds parts car. I do not know of
a 55 but talked to a gentelman on the phone the other night about some
parts I was looking for and he has a 54 Olds 88 4 door for sale cheap.
If it can help you at all his name is Danny and his phone number is 
410-741-1402.

Tom Williams
Columbus, NE
1970 W31

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:44:48 -0500
From: "deirdre. reilly" <102724.635@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: breather elements

Jerry Christopher wrote:

>so I changed every filter I could find in the car...  From the
>water pump on back to the tail pipe....  One at a time though...  My
>problem cleared up when I changed the PCV valve...  Luck or science??  I
>dunno, my it's just lucky science...  <G>

Well I already changed the PCV valve back in August when I bought the car. 
It's a good idea though, maybe it's not letting the pressure out like it's
supposed to, so it's going to the next available spot, the breather
element.

Thanks,

Bill Reilly
'85 Cutlass Supreme
'83 Cutlass Ciera
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:54:54 -0800
From: mrada <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: 80's 442/Hust VIN decoding

d houlton x0710 wrote:
> 
> and lightning rods though.  I just wanted the VIN decoding to make sure.

Huh? Lightning rods?  What are those in the context of this discussion?
I keep envisioning a long piece of metal eminating from the roof of the
car
to catch lightning bolts. :-)  That can't be right! :-)

Let me know...

Chris Sparks

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:44:27 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odd parts for '72 442 needed/  found!

i deal in parts 68-72 olds ,   maybe i can be of help,   please reply steven.
 w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:51:48 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: '69, '70 Junkyard Toros...

Scott,

I'm in need of some rear quarter windows w/nice chrome edges.  Actually, the
chrome is all that I need for my '67.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama


>
> Hey everybody!
>I was out at one the local boneyards this last tuesday picking around when
>I found some new arivals, mostly just a bunch of crap, but there was a '69

If there is anything specific you guys want from
>these, let me know.  I might be out there again soon.
>
> Scott
> 1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:56:21 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odd parts for '72 442 needed/ found!

i deal in parts, 68-72 olds,  maybe i can help.  please reply steven.
 w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:00:47 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Advantages of valve size..(was: E heads Big vs Small  valves and WTB(455))

Chris,

Anyone who has driven an early Z28 or that crazy Boss 429 of Ford's will
know that there is sucha thing as overkill on those heads.  I can't agree
more w/you on this issue.  All of the more radical high performance stuff is
wonderful to talk about & to show off with, but is not very practical.  My
442 4-speed convertible is more in my minds eye as a super car than anything
in actual practice.  It is supposed to be superior to a regular 350 Cutlass
& so I feel that it is.  I wonder how much pleasure per pain/dollar value is
actually t here compared to that 350 Cutlass?

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama


> What is the difference in actual valve size and is there any performance
> advantages that would warrent a change in heads?
>
>  >>
>
>This brings up a good point.  I realize that the bigger the valves, the
more
>airflow typically you can get in the cylinder (disregarding any MAJOR
>differences, and looking at the basic type of intake tract).  But how much
is
>it really worth to have the larger valves?  Is it worth extra HP, or is it
>not a valid need until higher RPM.  My contention would be this.  With a
>normal street motor, running typically at 3000 RPM, and occasionally up to
>say....  5500-6000 range, I'd bet there isn't much of a difference in the
>basic overall view of things.
>
>Is it worth "ditching" your small valve heads for a pair with a bigger
valve
>(considering you're staying within the same year, and not comparing the
smog
>heads to non-smog).  I'd say no.  Keep the ones you've got, hell, spend the
>money on getting them ported if you have money to blow.  There's better
>things to spend the money on than this.  There are alot of other things in
>your powertrain that will NEED to be worked on before you get into things
>this far to make a big difference.
>
>BTW, on a final note....  if you're looking for more compression, yes,
>changing to non-smog heads will help.
>
>Chris Ruper
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:08:24 -0500 (EST)
From: W30442CS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Parts 

67 d-88 parts, what are you looking for?    i know of (1) 66, 67, 68,  d-88
parts cars.            please reply steven.  w30442cs@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:46:02 -0500 (EST)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: 3-on-the-tree

 In last nights Classified Ads in the Providence Journal  (Rhode Island)

      1977 Cutlass S original owner mint condition 52,000 original 3 speed on
the column, blue  401-635-4362.

   Interesting after seeing the message the last couple of days about
3-on-the-tree.
I plan on calling on this to check it out, not to buy as I have enough in my
stable. If anyone has an interest let me know as I will be looking at it.


Everett  OCA#1961    1961 Starfire
1972 Supreme 3-on-the-tree coupe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:07:43 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <KRUMWIEDE@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: HP Rating on 73 Olds 88?

Can anyone tell me the HP rating on a 73 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 
4bbl? I got a chance to swap/buy one, and am curious if its worth it, 
its an old lady who had the trans go out on it a few years ago and it 
has just been sitting, there the original owners, she said it used to 
run fine, but when the trans went, they just didn't get around to 
haveing it fixed and bought a new car, been sitting ever since.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Fax (815) 235-6130
Home Page http://www.highland.cc.il.us
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:05:34 -0800
From: IRA <irahs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Header recommendations

I Have a 72 442 (auto) with a 455.  I'm thinking of installing headers
but I've heard stories about headers making oil changes difficult, and
having to cut into the chassis for installation.  Does anybody have any
experience/recommendations?  What brand of headers, if any, just bolt
right on?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:43:58 -0500
From: Steve Ochs <Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com>
Subject: 442 identifiers

Message text written by Mike Rothe
> I also forgot to mention that the "9" engines had a
three-point adjustment procedure where the "Y" engines only has a
two-point adjustment procedure. (I'll let you guys figure that one out).<

Actually, it depends on the year.  My 1987 has a 2 point adjustment
procedure (performed it too many times).  I think the change was made in
1986 from 3 point to 2 point.

Also, I am not aware of the "THM-400" type switch above the accelerator
pedal.  The A/C compressor cutout on my 1987 is performed by the ECM
(probably another 1986 change) when it detects WOT from the TPS sensor.


Steve Ochs aka N8TYS- Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain - Parma Plant
Transmission Division (4T60/65-E) - Steve_Ochs@compuserve.com
The statements and opinions expressed here are NOT an official
statement of General Motors or the GM Powertrain Division

'97 Chevy Blazer LT 4x4 4.3L V6    '96 DCM Impala SS 5.7L V8 
'87 Olds Cutlass 442 307 V8        '61 GMC 1500 Fleetside 305 V6  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:43:14 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Header recommendations

IRA wrote:
> 
> I Have a 72 442 (auto) with a 455.  I'm thinking of installing headers
> but I've heard stories about headers making oil changes difficult, and
> having to cut into the chassis for installation.  Does anybody have any
> experience/recommendations?  What brand of headers, if any, just bolt
> right on?

I've used Heddmans and Hookers in all of my 68-72 endeavors over the
years, and I've never had problems of fitment in any of these cases. 
Ensure you get the 400-455 headers and not ones for the 350, otherwise
you may not clear due to different deck heights.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:13:44 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: Just shifting wierd..

Mike Rothe wrote:

> shift process somewhat, to give you a smoother shift.  This means more
> slip as the tranny shifts.  Which more wear will occur.  Those
> street/strip type trannys and kits give you the bang shift, which,
> believe it or not is GOOD for your tranny.  (the U-joints might argue
> with you on this)

So what exactly do the kits do...  If you don't mind me asking a stupid
question...  Do they "hold" the engine longer, forcing a higher shift
point (IE: 1st to 2nd on a normal tranny shifts at "2500", and 1st to
2nd on a shift kit shifts at "3500").  Or are the shift points firmer,
but more noticible???

And the UJoints can say what they want, but if I go to the shift kit,
the heavy duty U-Joints go on it....


 
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:04:28 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: 442 identifiers

> > I also forgot to mention that the "9" engines had a
> three-point adjustment procedure where the "Y" engines only has a
> two-point adjustment procedure. (I'll let you guys figure that one out).<
> 
> Actually, it depends on the year.  My 1987 has a 2 point adjustment
> procedure (performed it too many times).  I think the change was made in
> 1986 from 3 point to 2 point.
> 
> Also, I am not aware of the "THM-400" type switch above the accelerator
> pedal.  The A/C compressor cutout on my 1987 is performed by the ECM
> (probably another 1986 change) when it detects WOT from the TPS sensor.

Well, there you go.  I once owned an '87 442, but lost that in the
divorce, so I didn't have it long enough to compare to the '85.  Hey,
people are actually reading what I wrote!  At least if nothing else,
everyone is looking into their cars and what equipment comes with them. 
'86 seemed to be a turning point for a number of changes, and I even
remember reading the '86s were supposed to have had the composite
headlights too, although that never happened until '87.  And there are
some '85s out there with the high-mount rear stoplight.  It was optional
dealer-installed only item.

Some food for thought.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:18:00 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: breather elements

deirdre. reilly wrote:
> 
> Jerry Christopher wrote:
> 
> >so I changed every filter I could find in the car...  From the
> >water pump on back to the tail pipe....  One at a time though...  My
> >problem cleared up when I changed the PCV valve...  Luck or science??  I
> >dunno, my it's just lucky science...  <G>
> 
> Well I already changed the PCV valve back in August when I bought the car.
> It's a good idea though, maybe it's not letting the pressure out like it's
> supposed to, so it's going to the next available spot, the breather
> element.

Hmmm...  Maybe it was just luck then...  That car was a real PIA to do
anything to.
- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:15:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Shaun Miller <smille02@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
Subject: lexus bashing

With all of the people on this list having alot of problems i might as 
well add mine.  I used to own a 81 custom cruiser.  This car had the 350 
diesel engine.  The exterior and interior were amazingly in mint 
condition.  The problem with this car was a blown head gasket at first.  
after fixing that it went about 1000 miles later.  Fixed it again and 
determined the problem to be a warped head from overheating on the first 
time.  Pawned it off on some spanish fellow.  Never heard from him again, 
nevertheless it was otherwise a real nice car to drive.  My second car is 
a 89 calais gold edition.  without going into performance stats, this car 
has done exellent.  The belt tensioner is the only real problem that went 
wrong on this car.  Suprising because i drive this thing like im at 
indy.  Burns very little oil(only cause i race it) and drives like a 
97(no joke).  the paint on this car is immaculate and interior spotless.  
I havent met a disatisfied quad 4, calais owner as far as quality goes.  
Gm seemed to hit the spot with this car.  I just want to know why gm made 
the newer achievas so ugly and cheap looking?  Kudos to GM this time, i 
wouldnt know about the japaneese cars because i refuse to ever buy one!!

shaun
81 custom cruiser
89 calais gold edition
cheap beer enthusiest

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:46:44 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Code 45 - Rich

Ok, got a question for the computer friendly folk.. <G>

On my 307 in the SES light keeps popping on.  I get to check it at work
on our Tech 1 Computer Diag. Thingy...  And it pops up with code 45
everytime....  I am interested in know what and how to fix it...  So far
this is what I've done in attempts to fix it....

1 - Replaced Oxygen Sensor - Bosch 

Code reappeared

2 - Replaced breather - Thought oil might be goin' into the system in
the form of smoke

Code came back

3 - Replaced PCV Valve - It was NASTY....

Any ideas???  I hate to take things to a shop, but I might...

- -- 
             		    Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:40:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Boaz32@aol.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)

Does Edelbrock make an RPM Intake for the Olds 455?  These new Alum. Heads
sound like a good match for an RPM intake...comments?

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:45:46 -0600
From: Jeff Ferraro <jtf4227@unix.tamu.edu>
Subject: EGR Valve

Hello,

I am lookiing to clean out the egr (exhaust gas recycle - i believe)
valve on my 86 442 in hopes of getting rid of a knocking I have been
chasing. However, After looking at the shcematic an the o so orgainzed
engine compartment with its masterpiece of emissions hoses running
everywhere, I am not sure I found what I'm looking for.  I thinik it is
this piece attached to some tubes coming out of the exhaust manifold and
then attached to a large heater-type hose crossing over the engine to a
joint of other hoses.  If anyone is familiar with what I am looking for
and where to find it - please help.  I figure i can take it apart and
clean it out with some carb/choke cleaner.  suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
JEFF FERRARO

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 19:25:50 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: intake_manifold

On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Dal Allan wrote:
>  - Does anyone know the reason for GM changing to an aluminum intake? 

If I had to make a guess, I'd say it was for weight reasons. Those cast 
iron intakes weigh a ton!

>  - Is there any disadvantage to using an older series cast iron intake? I'm 
>    thinking here of holes drilled for emissions controls. 

The only thing that comes to mind offhand is the EGR. A *real* old one 
wouldn't have that. But a late-70s to early 80s one should be pretty 
similar to yours I think... someone here must know firsthand.

>  - How long should this job take? I assume a bunch of time will be required 
>    to remove/replace all the emissions bits n pieces on top of the manifold. 

Depends what you can score with the pick-a-part one. With any luck most 
of the hard pieces will already be there. I'd allow the better part of a 
day if you're doing the job yourself.

>  - Are there any 'might-as-wells' while doing this job? 

Well, I know if I were doing this job I'd strip/break the fuel line 
fittings for sure... ;-) Aside from intake gaskets, with the thing off it 
would be easy to swap lifters if they're noisy. A new carb gasket too, of 
course; otherwise I can't think of anything too obvious.

But do you really need to do this? Wouldn't copious amounts of RTV 
form-a-gasket solve the aluminum one's problem? Wondering...

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:24:16 -0800
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Breather elements

Air should be going in through that filter to the engine, not the other way
around.  I'd check two things:

1) The PCV valve.  If it's not working correctly, the pressure could be
escaping there instead.  You mentioned in a followup that you just changed it.
Double check the part number.  There are some that look the same but are
different internally.

2) Check the thermac flapper valve if it has one.  Warm the engine up to
operating temperature and disconnect the cold air duct.  Look in to see if it's
open.  I had this sticking closed on a 260 once and it caused the exact same
problem.  Engine was so starved for air that it started pulling it through the
breather (since it can't get enough for highway speed operation through the
heat riser tube).

If neither of these, you may have a more serious problem like bad piston rings
allowing more blowby than the PCV valve can handle.  Maybe time for a
compression and/or leakdown test.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:38:58 -0500 (EST)
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brake ? for '72 442

  what are you looking to do to your vista brakes....
   
    what type of banners do you have   jeff dixie ods chapter  atl,ga

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:41:20 -0500 (EST)
From: OldsGuyGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: olds help, ?'s, info, goodies

  i AM  looking for 70- cutlass sports mirrors,,,  any cond...

  olds guy ....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:53:09 -0600
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Phantom 57

- -----Original Message-----
From: M&D Gillespie <mgillespie@sprynet.com>


>There is a picture on Drew Senko's site of the car I think everyone
>has been talking about.
>http://members.aol.com/drewinva/olds/lansing/57.jpg
>
It's not the one I think were talking about. The one I'm talking about is on
page 83 of the January '98 issue of PHR.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 19:01:22
From: "Daniel A. Gulino" <gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Vin decode please

At 09:39 AM 11/22/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>deirdre. reilly wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Here's the Vin 3N39KF140718.
>
>According to your VIN, it's a 1975 Delta 88 Royale Hardtop Sedan with
>the L34 350 4bbl

It's not significant, but there's actually a number missing from this VIN.
There should be a "5" between the K and the F, and it indicates the model
year.  Also, the F is not correct.  That letter indicates the assembly
plant, and the only possibilities are M, E, or X.  It's probably an E?
Would indicate Linden, New Jersey.


Dan


*********************************************************
Dan Gulino
gulino@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/~gulino/rides.html
1975 Delta 88 Convertible
*********************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 19:58:49 -0500
From: IRONMAN <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Code 45 - Rich

Jerry you got a faulty ECM



At 04:46 PM 11/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Ok, got a question for the computer friendly folk.. <<G>

>

>On my 307 in the SES light keeps popping on.  I get to check it at work

>on our Tech 1 Computer Diag. Thingy...  And it pops up with code 45

>everytime....  I am interested in know what and how to fix it...  So far

>this is what I've done in attempts to fix it....

>

>1 - Replaced Oxygen Sensor - Bosch 

>

>Code reappeared

>

>2 - Replaced breather - Thought oil might be goin' into the system in

>the form of smoke

>

>Code came back

>

>3 - Replaced PCV Valve - It was NASTY....

>

>Any ideas???  I hate to take things to a shop, but I might...

>

>-- 

>             		    Jerry Christopher

>     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI

> ___/.o \__, 	     1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme

>_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

>

>

<center><paraindent><param>out,out</param>Jeff Verkleeren 

<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Scholar -- Gentleman  --  Judge
of Beautiful Women and Fine Whiskey

</color></bold></paraindent>Mechanical Engineering 

Penn State University

</center>mailto:jev114@psu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:58:21 -0700
From: Tim Rudolph <trudolph@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Header recommendations

At 03:43 PM 11/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>IRA wrote:
<snip old stuff>
>I've used Heddmans and Hookers in all of my 68-72 endeavors over the
>years, and I've never had problems of fitment in any of these cases. 
>Ensure you get the 400-455 headers and not ones for the 350, otherwise
>you may not clear due to different deck heights.
>
>Mike Rothe 

Have you by any chance used any on a convertible?  Mine's a '69 and a new
set of headers are in the relatively near future and I was wondering about
fitment problems.  Was trying to find someone with experience.  Thanks

Tim Rudolph
trudolph@frii.com
'69 442 Convertible

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:59:08 -0700
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: refinishing aluminum rims

the clearcoat on my aluminum wheels (stock honeycombs on my '89 CS) is 
starting to peel I was wondering if anyone on the list had ever tried to 
refinish a set?  I'm trying to figure the best way to strip the old 
clear and whether it is a special clear for aluminum or can I use 
regular clear 

thanks
      Dustin

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:18:07 -0800
From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: picking a lock

> So, can anyone suggest someway that I can put the mechanism in the locked
> position without a key.  Anyone that knows how to pick a lock want to tell
> me how to do this?  Or should I just go to a locksmith?

Believe it or not, there's a website dedicated to this.  It looks to go
pretty in-depth on the subject too.

http://www.lysator.liu.se/mit-guide/mit-guide.html

.....And *now* you've seen everything. :)




Greg Pruett
72 Vista Cruiser 
67 Cutlass Supreme
80 Cutlass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:09:35 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: EGR Valve

> I am lookiing to clean out the egr (exhaust gas recycle - i believe)
> valve on my 86 442 in hopes of getting rid of a knocking I have been
> chasing.

The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve is located on the intake
manifold, just on the driver's side of the carb. It looks like a big
gold cadmium jelly donut. It is held in place with two 1/2 inch head
bolts, though they are different shank sizes. (So you cant put it on
backwards, I guess)  Also, a lock tab is utilized, similar to the
exhaust manifold bolt lock tabs.  If you suspect clogging, then take the
carb off, and the EGR valve and inspect in that area.  Attempt blowing
LOW pressure air (about 15 psi) into the under carb EGR fittings. (Right
below the carb mounting on the inside)   This way, any carbon gook will
be blown away from the engine, hopefully.  You may end up having to put
some sort of carbon cleaner, such as Gumout in there to help "soften"
some of it up.  Have you done the check to see if your EGR is clogging
up?

Try this first, before you tear anything apart.  With the engine
running, normal op temperature, (wear heat resistant gloves for this)
push up on the underside of the EGR valve diaphragm, to open it.  RPM
should take a noticable drop.  If not, the passages are plugged and it
needs to be cleaned out.

Then check to see if the valve is even working.  Check for valve
movement as the engine is raised to 2K rpm and back down.  If it moved,
the unit should be working right.  If it seems like it's working OK, 
you may have to check the EGR circuits.  That's a lot more detailed. 
E-mail me privately if you need further assistance. mrothe@prodigy.net

Good Luck,
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:39:28 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Boaz32@aol.com <Boaz32@aol.com>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)


>Does Edelbrock make an RPM Intake for the Olds 455?  These new Alum.
Heads
>sound like a good match for an RPM intake...comments?
>
>Mark

Part # 7111 also works on the 455 non egr engine.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/man_olds.html

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:33:56 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Code 45 - Rich

This code comes in when the computer sees high oxygne sensor voltage
more than the specified time above a specified TPS valvue in closed
loop.  This code also can be caused by silicone contamination to the O2
sensor.  If this is present with no code 23 or 54, then you may have a
sticking mixture control (M/C) solenoid in the carb.  Yikes.  If you
ever replace that, it would be around 85 bucks.  

It sounds like either the O2 solenoid is hosed (but since you just
replaced it, it probably isn't) OR, the ECM could be bad.  Shudder the
thought.  Try this.  If the M/C solenoid doesn't click with the engine
off, the key on, and the ECM test terminals under the dash grounded, it
is a sticking M/C plunger.  If it does, then that ain't it.  Remove
ground on Test Terminal.

Start engine, ground the test terminal, connect a digital dwell meter to
the M/C Solenoid test terminal, (this is the little green connector in
front of the carb, that isn't connected to anything.) and set to 6
cylinder scale.  Run at 3000 rpm and note dwell.  If less than 50,
trouble is intermittent, and everything is OK at the time of the test. 
If 50 or above, idle the engine, then disconnect a large vacuum line to
see if dwell drops at least 20 degrees (but don't stall the engine).  If
it does drop, then the M/C solenoid is working correctly.

If it does drop, then disconnect the O2 sensor lead, then ground the ECM
side of the lead (not the 02 sensor side).  Then, if there is no dwell
change, then it is the ECM.  If it goes less than 10 on the dwell, Check
evaporator canister for fuel loading.  If that's ok, then the carb may
need adjusting.

If all else fails, take it to the shop for genuine GM service.

2 cents worth.
Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:37:19 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Header recommendations

> Have you by any chance used any on a convertible?  Mine's a '69 and a new
> set of headers are in the relatively near future
> '69 442 Convertible

Engine compartments are the same.  A 442 drop top can use the same
headers.  No problemo.  UNLESS it is a manual trans. on the tree, then
it could get tricky.  I put some on a 4 speed 69 W-30 before, and I had
no problems.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:59:46 -0500
From: "M&D Gillespie" <mgillespie@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Header recommendations

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca <oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca>
Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Header recommendations


>snip>
>Engine compartments are the same.  A 442 drop top can use the same
>headers.  No problemo.  UNLESS it is a manual trans. on the tree,
then
>it could get tricky.  I put some on a 4 speed 69 W-30 before, and I
had
>no problems.
>
>Mike Rothe

I have also been looking for headers for my 69 conv. Looking through
Mondello's catalog, he lists Hooker and Doug Thorley headers for 67
through 72 but it states specifically that they do not fit
convertibles. Do you think that maybe one or more years have a fit
problem and it's easier to avoid complaints by saying they won't fit
any?

Mick Gillespie
69 Cutlass S convertible
mgillespie@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mgillespie/oldspage.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:26:49 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Delta Conspiracy

>My parents drove the Delta for eighteen years, and the worst that ever
>happened was a nasty door ding....but since I've had it, it's been hit
>TWICE in ONE (f**kin') WEEK!
Well mine has gone 30 years with only minor abrasions to now be retired
from driving (except maybe 5 times a year) and it gets creamed in front of
my house!

 Why tear apart
>your dash?  Save yourself a headache and have some ditzy blonde run into
>it! 
Oh God, the ones on my VC died, don't suggest this as a fix-it or that will
undoubtedly be the next thing that happens to me!!

Good luck - maybe its just a government conspiracy to get these cars off
the road (you know, clear out the junk yards of parts then go out & hit
everyone and then they wont be able to fix them.............)



Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:12:17 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Oldsmobiles Available

Don't forget I have a '69 Toronado for sale here folks, bargain price (need
to clear out the backyard).  Might be a W-34 (can't tell, can explain in
detail elsewhere), 455.  Has ran, but without the starter relay now so
can't tune up or work out the bugs of sitting for 5 years.  Good body, good
interior (not perfect in either case but all there) $900 OBO, discount if
you want it shipped somewhere.

Also went to a junkyard looking for my '67 Delta parts today and they had a
'68 Delmont 88 convertible - front end to doors was in great shape, rear
quarters, back bumper had more rust then metal and in places nothing at
all!!!  Top shot, but interior in remarkably good condition (hasn't sat out
long).  425 & it runs -  dark blue exterior with light blue interior.
Split bench in great shape as commented before.  Dash in nice condition too
(maybe one small crack or so).  A shame this car is so shot in the rear
half.......

California cars.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 22:07:19 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: PARTS: New Items

        Here is some of the interesting stuff we just got in.

64-66 Auto Floor Shifter (T handle type, complete minus T )  $100.00
65-(early) 66 Plain Full Wheel Covers (4, mint)  $30.00 
65 442 Side Vents (very good)  $75.00 pr
66-68 Bucket Seat Backs (2) and Sides (4) (metal, nice, black)  $75.00 all
66 Cutlass Tail Light Bezels (very good)  $85.00 pr
67 Cutlass Plain Full Hubcaps (4, mint)  $30.00
67 Plain Cutlass Holiday Hardtop interior door panels and rear sides (very
nice, blue/green) $85.00 set of 4
68-69 Cutlass "S"/442 Wheel Well Moldings (nice, 3)  $90.00 all
69 Backup Lens (mint)  $25.00 pr
69 Cutlass LH Grille (nice)  $50.00
69-72 LH "W" Manifold (pitted)  $85.00
70 Hood Tongue (nice)  $25.00
70-72 Dash Pad and Dash Plastic (radio area, green, mint)  $185.00

Jim Chermack
C&M Classic Parts
(757)474-0869   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 22:48:06 -0500 (EST)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: yea you think youre into olds

In a message dated 97-11-16 04:42:17 EST, you write:

<< 
 If any one thinks theyre a huge olds fan check me out.  We used to own an 
 85 cutlass ciera which my pops just sold.  we had an 86 and 87 cutlass 
 supreme with the 307 (excellent motor).  my mom still has her 89 cierra 
 which runs fine.  Now we still have my brothers 88 calais Q4 and my 89 
 calais limited ed. Q4.  >>

That it?  Geez, I think Charlie B. has more Oldsmobiles than that (ok, so
half of them are probably sitting unused, judging from his recent "story").
 He's our extensive collector of cars (recently added title of Olds magnet is
very appropriate...).  :-) 

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 23:24:43 -0500 (EST)
From: COUPEKING@aol.com
Subject: Flat top pistons

The early 400" engines and the 425's have flat top pistons.

Peter/CoupeKing

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:34:57 -0700
From: Dustin Cross <livnrt@mssl.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: yea you think youre into olds

CRuper1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-11-16 04:42:17 EST, you write:
> 
> <<
>  If any one thinks theyre a huge olds fan check me out.  We used to own an
>  85 cutlass ciera which my pops just sold.  we had an 86 and 87 cutlass
>  supreme with the 307 (excellent motor).  my mom still has her 89 cierra
>  which runs fine.  Now we still have my brothers 88 calais Q4 and my 89
>  calais limited ed. Q4.  >>
> 
> That it?  Geez, I think Charlie B. has more Oldsmobiles than that (ok, so
> half of them are probably sitting unused, judging from his recent "story").
>  He's our extensive collector of cars (recently added title of Olds magnet is
> very appropriate...).  :-)
> 
> Chris Ruper

Charlie does have more Old's than that!   I'm guessing he has about 12 Old's  probably 
at least 15 cars total!     I know I gained alot of room in my junkyard when he started 
moving his cars to his parents in Scobey

Dustin

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 23:33:25 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Edelbrock Aluminum Oldsmobile Heads (fwd)

> >Does Edelbrock make an RPM Intake for the Olds 455?  These new Alum.
> Heads
> >sound like a good match for an RPM intake...comments?
> 
> Part # 7111 also works on the 455 non egr engine.

2151 (Performer) and 2730 (Torker) are the only intake manifolds that
are listed in the Edelbrock book to fit the 400-455 big block Olds.  The
7111 is for 350-403 SMALL Block Olds.  It will NOT fit the 455. Sorry,
no Performer RPM for the 455. At least right now.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:48:19 +0000
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: Bashing

> Hey Lis...  The Q4 guys can brag, yeah...  But who's the one people look
> at when sitting at a light??  A Maroon 69 442, or a Maroon 89 442...
> <G>  Just blow it off...  Last 4 cyl I had died, they really aren't made
> for racing anyways...

Hmmm.  Watching the news the other night, some football team kids
discussing their upcoming game...  Commented about the team running on
all four cylinders.  Had to chuckle.  Reminded me of this thread.  High
school team.  I'd like to see what happened if the high school team on
four cyl's went up against a college team running on all eight!  Or even
seven, for that matter...  ;)

Charley Buehner
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 22:05:20 +0000
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: '69, '70 Junkyard Toros...

Lloyd W. Culp wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> I'm in need of some rear quarter windows w/nice chrome edges.  Actually, the
> chrome is all that I need for my '67.
> 
Bill, I've got a set for with your name on 'em finally.  They're at the
farm in Scobey (about 120 miles away) but are at least in my posession,
anyway.  The chrome and the rubbers are in pretty decent shape (~much~
better than the Gran Sport's! 

Charley Buehner
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 22:38:38 +0000
From: Charley Buehner <buehner@lyrea.com>
Subject: Re: yea you think youre into olds

> Charlie does have more Old's than that!   I'm guessing he has about 12 Old's  probably
> at least 15 cars total!     I know I gained alot of room in my junkyard when he started
> moving his cars to his parents in Scobey


Yup, which in turn gave Dustin the opportunity (and socialogical need)
to start expanding his own collection ;)

About the Toro, Dustin?  It was at Fairview and the 83 was here.  I had
to take the store's van home and back a few times before I got our
salesman to give me a ride there and bring the Toro in.  Typical
delivery van, 83 che*y, 305, gutless dog, hence the snicker marks around
the term ~hot rod~...  Noticed the server bounces.  Hope it didn't
bounce to the list...  I guess my posts tonight here aren't bouncing, so
I guess I didn't get bumped...  Maybe your server's name server was
down?  Don't know.  Just wish my pc was down for ~only~ that long! 
(dammit!)  

***Ooh ooh ooh...   Old's 100th Aniv. Premier ad on tv right now!!!***
     	(OK, so the commercial was pretty lame...  Sorry)

Still no cure for the pc.  Strongly suspecting hardware.  Haven't
coughed up the $$$ to verify  ;)

Charley Buehner (The Oldsmobile Magnet)
	Current Rocket count:  Much very many and counting...
	Current Rocket value:  Much very very less...
mailto:buehner@lyrea.com
http://www.lyrea.com/~buehner

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:49:55 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: Just shifting wierd..

Jerry Christopher wrote:


>>>So what exactly do the kits do...  If you don't mind me asking a stupid
>>>question...  Do they "hold" the engine longer, forcing a higher shift
>>>point (IE: 1st to 2nd on a normal tranny shifts at "2500", and 1st to
>>>2nd on a shift kit shifts at "3500").  Or are the shift points firmer,
>>>but more noticible???

Yes, it's true...shift kits, while improving the shift, will actually
make the transmission last longer.  When a normal tranny shifts, it's
opting for smooth shifting, so it lets the clutches and bands slip
before completely engaging them.  A shift kit helps align the clutches,
so when it shifts gears, the clutches will lock together, with a minimal
amount of slip...and thus, less wear, longer life...not to mention a
stronger shift.

If you're looking for an easy way to make the tranny shift a higher RPM,
here's my best advice....hold your foot to the firewall!  Or you could
just cut/remove the vacuum line...(and you're tranny will hate you for
it...)


>>>And the UJoints can say what they want, but if I go to the shift kit,
>>>the heavy duty U-Joints go on it....

If not, you'll be sweeping the OEM ones up with a dustpan....


- ----------------------------------------- 
S. Dave Ward   mailto:ward@ptbo.igs.net 

'78 Delta 88 (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC Sierra 4x4 (305 TBI)

(Ennismore, Ontario, CANADA)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:54:12 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Parts 

Grille and center piece for the front bumper.  '67 doesn't interchange with
'66 or '68.

Let me know - and thanks.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:10:45 -0500
From: "Patton" <patton@ComCAT.COM>
Subject: headers revisited

Rocketmen, (and gals)

	In response to the current header chatter, I have not found ANY headers
to fit my 67' big block powered drop top. The driver header interferes with
the
steering column. The car is now at a racing shop having a custom header
made up. I do not know about the 68-72 models but have heard there is a
problem
with them with certain tube diameters.


				The General

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #967
********************************

