To:	oldsmobile-digest@chebucto.ns.ca @ INTERNET
cc:	 
Subject:	oldsmobile-digest V1 #996


oldsmobile-digest       Monday, December 8 1997       Volume 01 : Number 996



Re: 425 4bbl and intake
Re: 403's
Last Post (messed up)
65 88 pcs
Re: Car sounds
The book
Re: runaway engine
Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale
valve addition
Re: engine kill
Re: 403's
Re: Non Olds Stuff
Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
Re: Non Olds Stuff
Re: Painting
Re: Parts For Sale
Re: engine kill
Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....
1986-1988 442 8 1/2" rearend needed
200r4 linkage ???????
Re: sounds
Re: Real Sound
Re: runaway engine
Re: runaway engine
Re: runaway engine
Re: Re:'67 Delta
Re: Re:'67 Delta
Re: 403's
Re[2]: Painting
Re: runaway engine
test-do not open
Re: 200r4 linkage ???????
Re: Re[2]: H-Pipe
Re: sounds
Re: Painting
TEMPORARY removal from the list
Re: sounds
AN Oldsmobile at work
Wheel grease
Re: Wheel grease
Re: Painting
Car for Sale
Re: 403's
remove
Re: Wheel grease
70 Cutlass FS
Re: engine kill
engine paint
Re: sounds
Re: runaway engine
Re: sounds

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:39:41 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: 425 4bbl and intake

At 01:59 PM 12/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
E.J

        We have a correct 4 bbl intake and 4 bbl carb from a 66 425 for
sale. We're asking $165.00 for the whole thing.

Jim Chermack
C&M Classic Parts
Virginia Beach, VA
(757)474-0869

>      Does anyone know where I can get an intake manifold and a 4 bbl
>Q-jet for my '66 425?  Thanks for any and all help.
>                  E.J.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:38:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: 403's

Were they also in Olds Cutlass station wagons?

On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Jim & Joanne Chermack wrote:

> At 09:04 PM 12/7/97 -0700, you wrote:
> Ray
>
>         You should find them in:
> 77-79 Trans Ams
> 77-79 Ninety Eights
> 77-79 Eighty Eights
> 77-79 Toronados
> 77-79 Pontiac Bonnevilles
> 77-79 Buick Electras
> 77-79 Buick LeSabres
>
> Jim Chermack
>
>
> >Can someone tell me all the cars that came with 403's from the factory.  I
> >may need to hunt down another one soon.  Thankya'll.
> >
> >Ray in the desert
> >87 409 Cutlass
> >
>
>

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:40:47 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Last Post (messed up)

At 01:59 PM 12/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
Hey everyone

        Sorry about that last post. I forgot to change the address on it.

Jim Chermack

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:42:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: 65 88 pcs

From: JACKSPER <JACKSPER@aol.com>
Subject: Restore 1965 Olds dynamic 88

Need misc. interior parts for 65 dynamic 88.  is there anything out there?
I've never seen a 65 listed. Is this an oddball for restoring? I am a new
member and really a novice in this restoration.  An unusual switch from a
lifetim
e of accounting.  Any help appreciated.  Thanks
- ------------------------------
I have 2 '65 4-dr parts cars and a 65 Starfire [same body size] parts car.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 20:27:23 -0800
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Car sounds

 Sorry, no Olds content contained in this message. What made the Beach
Boy's car *sounds* all the better is that they taped their car live so it
was the real thing!  Too cool.  I guess its why i still sigh whenever I see
a cool '60-61 BelAir and think of those 'fine 409's".


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:47:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: The book

Oldsmobiles first 100 years. 496 pages   Larry, buy this book!  It's a
steal for $12.95
==============
I concur. I'm cheap, but woulda paid $20 or so for it, at $13, it's a must-get.
- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:46:02 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

Greg Pruett wrote:

> Would ya believe Chris that they tell you in driver's ed to shift into
> neutral if the engine runs away.  At least they did back when I took it
> in `93.  The logic being that you can more readily stop and steer the
> car with the power going steering and brakes still operational.

Personally, I'd shut the car off...I'd rather end up in the rhubarb
anyday as opposed to having my piston and my cyl. head saying wedding
vows.  If you just shifted into neutral, and the engine hit 8,000 and
blew up, wouldn't that be the same effect as shutting the car off?
(Except for the fact that you'd be in the market for a new engine!)

> argued the point with the instructor, pointed out that most power brake
> boosters have enough vacuum reserve for one application with the engine
> off. (surprise surprise, a smart ass 15 year old :)   He said something
> to the effect that the book sez so, the test comes from the book, and
> it's too early to argue.
>
> I say they made thoes brake pedals 6 inches wide for a reason.

If you were to throw out the anchors like this, you'd likely end up
saying hello to Mr. Maple anyway...but, at least you'd be slowed down
when you *do* bark up the tree.

Here's a question...what if you had a four wheel disc ABS system, and
you shut the car off while still in motion.  If you throw out the
anchor, would it still stop the car?  Since ABS systems work with wheel
speed sensors, the reading would be zero, considering that there's no
voltage to them.  I can see two possible outcomes...a) the system would
panic and lock up, or b) the brakes barely work at all  (in other words,
put your head between your knees and kiss your *ss goodbye!)

I don't own an four wheel ABS equipped vehicle, and I don't plan to, but
I would like to know what would happen in the above scenerio.  My 4x4
has rear-wheel ABS to prevent rear wheel lockup, which is avoid any
fishtailing....I just found out yesterday that the ABS doesn't work in
four wheel drive!:)

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:47:55 -0500
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: PARTS: 442/Cutlass Parts For Sale

At 12:32 PM 12/7/97 -0400, you wrote:
Bob

        Yes the are the same only they are metal. They do have the chrome
strip on the sides. I don.t have a column for a 68. Did you know a 67 or 68
will work?

Jim

>Hi Jim,
>
>At 11:09 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>New Parts:
>>66-68 Bucket Seat Backs (2) and Sides (4) (metal, nice, black)  $75.00 all
>
>How are these different than the plastic ones that came on my '68?  Do they
>use a chrome trim piece around the edge like the plastic ones?
>
>Also, have you got a floor shift steering column for a '68 (tilt or not, it
>doesn't matter)?
>
>Thanks,
>Bob
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert J. Lavey                         email: rjlavey@rmci.net
> 13243 W. Dahlia Dr.                     Home:  (208) 939-5418
> Boise, ID  83713-1302                   Fax:   (208) 939-5452
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:50:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: valve addition

- --something about having *2* valves each...

1.4 inches in diameter. thats a total of 2.8 inches of exhaust valve per cyl.
no oth er olds is breathing that kind of flow. with even bigger intake valves.
BOY you just can't get any Better.
=====================
Ah, bud, I don't think you can add up valve diameters to get effective flow
area. Twice the area of a 1.4" valve is NOT the area of a 2.8" valve.

- --
Chris  B. Witt :=: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=: Location: Mecca [Lansing, MI]
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:04:10 -0500
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: engine kill

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> I guess I might believe that. The world is after all run by boneheads.
> Personally, I think that steering and brakes work ok even w/o "power" and
would > really really rather not buy another motor. For the test I might answer
as they > wish, but in real life, off goes the key.

I was a co-op student at a Chev/Olds/Cadillac dealership a few years
back.  I learned a lot of ways to beat the "flat rate", and how to do a
lube, oil & filter in 15min. (which I still think is pretty
impressive).  But, I saw some of the most interesting things
there...this particular thread just sparked my memory.  There was a lady
that had a very recent Blazer (91-94, I think). Anyway, just after she
had her "truck" (she called it a truck) professional cleaned inside and
out, she had the throttle stick.  So, she panicked...she tried to shift
into neutral, but hit Park instead.  She was travelling at about 60km/h,
with the transfer case in 4x4.  When she threw it in Park, she snapped
the shift linkage, transmission pin, destroyed the transfer case, and I
think she twisted the one of the driveshafts...(can't remember which).

She started ranting and raving about how she coulda been killed, the
thing is a piece of junk, etc, etc.  When one of the mechanics got
inside the vehicle to check the throttle, one of the deep grooves in the
floormat had pinned the throttle...(the mat was pushed too far
forward).  Has this ever happened to anyone?

I think she ended up taking the car wash to court....

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:05:36 +0000
From: Paul Hartlieb <plh@nbn.net>
Subject: Re: 403's

Ray wrote:
>
> Were they also in Olds Cutlass station wagons?

Not only station wagons, they were available in other Cutlass models,
too.  Maybe even LeMans and Regals?

Paul
- --
Paul Hartlieb
Myerstown, PA
plh@nbn.net
'67 Ninety Eight Holiday Coupe
'72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible

When you choke a Smurf what color does it turn?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:24:27 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Stuff

Boogah Wolfe wrote:
>
> Excuse the non-olds question, but does anyone know if there is a list
> server similar to this one dealing with Ponchos? Have a buddy who is big
> into them and when I told him about this he asked me to check.

Don't know about any "e-mail lists" such as this, but John Allen in
Florida is a big-time GTO kinda guy, who can be reached at
GTOsrus@gte.net

The web page is http://www.owt.com/inmax/classicfolder/goatfinder.html

Check it out, you may get some leads from John.

- --
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:29:53 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

In a message dated 97-12-07 14:58:49 EST, you write:

<< the '71 Corvette
 454 BBC was making 460hp, and this was running at 10.8:1...all ya gotta
 do is a) not frig with the motor too much, and b), stick with the high
 test fuels.  The Porsche flat 6 (non-turbo) is making 282hp, using
 11.3:1 compression. >>

well, back in 1971, gasoline could be gotten with 100 octane or so, couldnt
it?  that was when lead was still in gas and before the fuel crisis and all i
think.  as for the porsche, it is fuel injected, and most likely has an
aluminum head.  injection alone will allow a much increased compression, while
the aluminum head will aid in cooling and allow even more compression.  HOT
ROD magazine suggests running nothing over 9.5:1 or so for pump gas.  this is
for the average engine with iron heads and carburator instead of injection.
(by the way, my uncle has a '71 454 vette with sidepipes that has been sitting
in his garage for the past 16 years!!!  hasnt been moved an inch!!!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 00:32:07 -0500
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Non Olds Stuff

Boogah Wolfe wrote:
>
> Excuse the non-olds question, but does anyone know if there is a list
> server similar to this one dealing with Ponchos?

Whoops!  I guess I should have checked out that link first.  It was
sorta old, and it didn't check out.  The e-mail address should work
though.

- --
Mike Rothe
69 H/O
71 442 HT
85 442 T-top
76 GMC 1/2 ton, 502 c.i.

http://pages.prodigy.net/mrothe/rocket.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:42:18 -0600
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Re: Painting

Jason Adcock wrote:

<snip>

>from what I can tell...no chain store here.  Because of this, I thought the
>job would be done better, but no.  What I really need to do now is not get
>it repainted, but clean up all the "extra" paint left various places.  Just
>my 2 cents...
>_____________________________

Man!  All these horror stories are prompting me to send my body shop guy a
NICE Christmas card.  He's always treated my vehicles like they were his
very own.  (He appreciates Oldsmobiles, so that helps...)  Mr. Culp had some
good suggestions on finding a good body shop.  They're out there, but
judging from some of these terrible stories, I guess locating a good shop is
like finding an oasis in the desert.  Good luck to all the folks needing a
paint job.

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:58:33 -0500
From: "Robert Schinkel" <docbob@caninet.com>
Subject: Re: Parts For Sale

Sorry to but into your business but if Russell needs a switch to go with
your antenna I have one

Robert Schinkel
docbob@caninet.com

- ----------
> From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: RE: Parts For Sale
> Date: Sunday, December 07, 1997 11:38 PM
>
> At 03:33 PM 12/6/97 -0600, you wrote:
> Russell
>
>         I have the power antenna but no switch. That was an older ad.
>
> Jim Chermack
>
>
> >69' Power antenna & switch $60.00
> >
> >Do you still have this?   If so I'd like to buy it if you have all
> supporting hardware?
> >
> >rgbaker@wt.net
> >" If it's worth doing.  Then do it right ! "
> >Russell G. Baker
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:Robert Schinkel [SMTP:docbob@caninet.com]
> >Sent:Monday, December 01, 1997 3:53 PM
> >To:oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> >Subject:Parts For Sale
> >
> >Some parts have been just thrown into any year cause they are basically
> >universal between 68 - 72 and don't need to be entered into each
column...
> >Such as sway bars
> >
> >
> >PLEASE   E - me direct and
> >I'll get back to you A.S.A.P
> >
> >Robert Schinkel
> >docbob@caninet.com
> >
> >1968
> >
> >Wheel well chrome$20.00 each.
> >Front side markers$15.00 each
> >Rear side markers$15.00 each
> >Black dash pad  Mint$90.00
> >Hood Hinges$35.00
> >400 engine  (out of 68 442  )$350.00
> >Th400 OG$100.00
> >442 Air cleaner$75.00
> >3 speed console (standard shift)$275.00
> >C casting heads (complete)$175.00
> >Cutlass Grill $95.00
> >Cutlass Convertible Trunk lid Mint$250.00
> >Cutlass trunk lid ( southern)$150.00
> >Headlight Frames (plastic)$250.00
> >
> >1969
> >
> >442 Grills exc.$190.00
> >SSI's   code JK 14x6 set of 4$100.00
> >Nos reverse light lens (in box)$15.00
> >Power antenna & switch $60.00
> >Wiper switch $40.00
> >Radio plate (uncut)$20.00
> >Power Top switch & wiring$45.00
> >Rear defroster Switch & wiring$25.00
> >Plastic headlight frames $75.00
> >Cutlass Conv. Trunk lid (Southern)$150.00
> >Dash pad (gold)$90.00
> >
> >1970
> >
> >Tail light lens (Cutlass)$10.00 each
> >Tail light lens (Supreme)$12.00 each
> >Nos fender script "Cutlass"$30.00 each
> >Nos Horn Contact (sport wheel)$20.00 each
> >Nos 442 emblem sets (full)$225.00
> >F85 fender script $30.00 pr.
> >Rear side marker lights$15.00 each
> >Front side marker lights$20.00 each
> >Conv. Pump, Cyl.,and lines$150.00
> >Nos Boxed lower Control Arms$225.00
> >Rear Spoiler (original)$275.00
> >Rear Sway Bar$60.00
> >1" 1/8 front sway bar (heavy duty)$60.00
> >
> >1971 & 1972
> >
> >Nos headlight frames(plastic)$75.00 pr.
> >Front bumper directional lens$10.00 ea.
> >Tail light lens$10.00 ea.
> >Power bench seat $100.00
> >Trunk lid script "O-L-D-S-M-O-B-I-L-E"$30.00
> >Dash pad (olive)$75.00
> >Dash pad ( blue)$75.00
> >Dash pad (black)$75.00
> >442 Grills good condition (with emblems)$200.00
> >4 Speed console (VGC.includes key)$200.00
> >Auto Console (black)$90.00
> >Auto Console (Tan)$90.00
> >Auto Console (Brown)$90.00
> >Auto Console (Green)$90.00
> >
> >Literature
> >
> >1961 F - 85 Service Manual$40
> >1970 Sales Booklet $20
> >1973 Sales Booklet$20
> >1974 Sales Booklet$20
> >1974 Sales Booklet (Omega)$20
> >
> >To my best of knowledge each of these parts are in Good condition and
> >that's why I advertise them for sale.  Some have been repaired such as
> >grills,  But I take much pride in my repair work and hope you will be
> >satisfied with my efforts.
> >
> >If there is something you are searching for and it is not on the list
> >please feel free to ask I am more then happy to hunt for parts.
> >
> >Shipping is extra
> >
> >Robert Schinkel
> >docbob@caninet.com
> >905-357-4454
> >
> >
> >
> >Attachment Converted: C:\EXIS32\download\RE Parts For Sale
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 02:04:02 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: engine kill

Dave Ward wrote:
>When one of the mechanics got
inside the vehicle to check the throttle, one of the deep grooves in the
floormat had pinned the throttle...(the mat was pushed too far
forward).  Has this ever happened to anyone?

Yes sir it has happened to me twice, both times for exactly the same
reason but about ten years apart.  The first time it got caught in the
floor mat.  The second time some object in the passenger seat hit the
top of the transmission hump and rolled between the gas pedal and the
trans and lodged there.  I did what Chris said he would do.  I turned
the ignition off and hit the now manual brakes.  I also popped the gear
selector into neutral also.  On other kinda related thing also surprised
me on a 78 T-bird I had.  I engaged the cruise control on a four lane
road at 60 mph.  A couple of miles later I hit the brake to slow down
for the traffic in front of me while waiting for an opening to change
lanes.  Instead I heard the engine loading up and straining forward.
Pushed the brake harder and the engine went higher.  The cruise was
stuck and would not disengage.  Hit the off button and it shut off.  A
bit of a panic for a moment or so while I tried to decide what was
wrong, watch traffic, etc, etc all at the same time.  (A side
note-Before anybody makes any unwarranted remarks about the T-bird, that
was the only problem I had with it for the 100k miles I drove it other
than normal maintenance items.  One of the most cost effective cars I've
owned.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 02:17:49 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Rebuild/Upgrade kits....

BIG JERMES wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-12-07 14:58:49 EST, you write:
>
> << the '71 Corvette
>  454 BBC was making 460hp,

According to my book, the 460 hp motor was last available in the 1970
Vette.  The 1971 454 rating was 365 or 425 hp depending on which one was
ordered.

> well, back in 1971, gasoline could be gotten with 100 octane or so, couldnt
it?  that was when lead was still in gas and before the fuel crisis

Leaded and unleaded gas was both available in 1971 (and yes leaded went
up to 100 octane).  However, federal laws required all major
manufacturers to produce only cars (i.e. engines) that would run on
unleaded or low lead gas.  That was one of the reasons for the reduced
compression ratio after 1970.

> (by the way, my uncle has a '71 454 vette with sidepipes that has been 
sitting
> in his garage for the past 16 years!!!  hasnt been moved an inch!!!)

I would like to find one of these someday when I have the cost of
admission.  Although I love Cutlass/442s, I almost bought a 71 Vette
roadster about 1976.  Still think they are neat cars.  He decides to
sell and you don't want it, let know. Who knows, I might hit the lottery
next week.  Yeah, right!  :)

Hope some of this is useful.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:51:20 EST
From: BIG JERMES <BIGJERMES@aol.com>
Subject: 1986-1988 442 8 1/2" rearend needed

i doubt this will help me out any, but ill give it a try.  i need to find a
rearend out of a 86-88 442 for my '78 cutlass.  im getting an overdrive and i
want the 3.73 gears and 8 1/2" case.  all the other cutlasses and regals have
7 1/2" rearends, as well as '85 and older 442s.  the montecarlo ss also has
the rearend i want with the 3.73 gears.  the grand national buick had the rear
but with 3.42 gears.  i live in south carolina and it would give me a nice
grin to find out someone can help me out!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 03:01:09 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: 200r4 linkage ???????

Hello to all,
 Just wondering, is the shifter linkage different between the 3 and 4 spd
autos?? A 3spd auto came out, and a  1981 4spd is going in my 86 Salon.  I
have the console shift.   Thanks in advance,
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 03:36:12 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: sounds

In a message dated 97-12-06 10:28:40 EST, you write:

<<  Bah! Pish-posh!  >>
Oh MY!!!  such language!!! I hope they ban you from the list 4-ever!!  gotta
go now, Regis and Kathy Lee is coming on.....
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 03:55:33 EST
From: RCKTPWR <RCKTPWR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Real Sound

Um not to start, and I knowyou luv yer q4, but it aint a v-8. NOTHING SOUNDS
AS GOOD AS AN OLDS V-8. NOTHING!!!!! but u r entitled to yr opinion..........
Bernie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 08:08:59 -0800
From: Ingmar Ott <iao2@cdc.gov>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

Chris,
I'm not offended.  Turning the key off would probably have solved the
engine problem, but I was approaching the woods quite rapidly, and
loosing steering control was not what I wanted to run into.  Also, being
is kind of a hurry to get the situation under control, I might have
switched the key too far and ended up with a locked steering wheel -
very unpleasant.
Depite all this, since nobody on this list had any great ideas, I
decided to check all the linkages out, which looked fine, so were all
the springs.  I disconnected the vacuum line for the Cruise control and
I haven't had a problem since.  I will let it go for a week or so, then
plug it back up and see if the problem re-occurs.  If it does, at least
I know where it's coming from.

Ingmar Ott
iao2@cdc.gov
'77 Cutlass 442
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: Greg Pruett <grpruett@vt.edu>
>Subject: Re: runaway engine

>> At the risk of offending someone by implying that they are... shall we
>> say, not thinking clearly at the time?  Might I suggest that turning the
>> key OFF is the optimal way to control a runaway motor. As you see,
>> shifting to N only leaves you with NO control over the motor at all.
>> You know, the ignition switch, that thing you almost always kill the motor
>> with...

>Would ya believe Chris that they tell you in driver's ed to shift into
>neutral if the engine runs away.  At least they did back when I took it
>in `93.  The logic being that you can more readily stop and steer the
>car with the power going steering and brakes still operational.  I
>argued the point with the instructor, pointed out that most power brake
>boosters have enough vacuum reserve for one application with the engine
>off. (surprise surprise, a smart ass 15 year old :)   He said something
>to the effect that the book sez so, the test comes from the book, and
>it's too early to argue.=20

>I say they made thoes brake pedals 6 inches wide for a reason. :)  With
>both feet on the brake I can lock 'em up real good even without power.=20
>With just one foot I can stop well enough for most situations. =20

>>- --
>>Chris  B. Witt :=3D: wittchri@pilot.msu.edu :=3D: Location: Mecca >>[Lansing,
MI] >>*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...


>Greg Pruett
>72 Vista Cruiser
>67 Cutlass Supreme
>80 Cultass Calais

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 08:20:33 -0800
From: Ingmar Ott <iao2@cdc.gov>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

John,
thanks fro the advice.  For some reason, I just got this message now,
after the ª994 digest.  Hmm, strange.  Anyway, that's what I figured as
well and it seems to work so far.  I will re-connect the cruise control
in a week and see if it happens again.
Also, overrevving was the lesser of two evils.  If I had lost steering
control, I would have hit the pine trees at 50+ mph and lost the entire
car.  Of course I had an engine blow on me before, and what was left of
the engine bay and the hood and front end, after the pistons shot
through it was also not much fun.  :)

Ingmar Ott
iao2@cdc.gov
'77 Cutlass 442
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>!!!!!!!
>     Well, being a 77 means there in no computer....just a simple Qjet
>and HEI. The only way it could take off BY ITSELF would be if
>something advanced the throttle suddenly. My guess would be the cruise
>control. Try disconnecting it and see what happens. If the choke was
>popping back on you wouldn't see an increase in RPM until you opened
>the throttle and let the fast idle cam kick back in.
>     Oh, BTW the cure for a runaway car is to just turn the key off!
>The backdrive linkage prevents the steering from locking up. If you
>toss it in neutral you could do damage from over-revving!
>
>===
>John Pajak                          JSPajak@rocketmail.com
>Lexington Park, Maryland  HTTP://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
>
>65 Delta 88 2dr    70 Cutlass S 2dr       72 Cutlass conv
>66 Toronado deluxe 70 Cutlass S W31       72 Delta 88 conv
>69 Cutlass S 2dr   70 442 W30 conv        72 442 W30 conv
>70 Cutlass S 2dr   71 Cutlass Supreme 2dr 86 Cutlass Supreme

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 08:24:10 -0800
From: Ingmar Ott <iao2@cdc.gov>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

Ray,
this would however not explain, why a car would pickup from idle and rev
up without the gas pedal being touched.

Ingmar Ott
iao2@cdc.gov
'77 Cutlass 442
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:23:10 -0700 (MST)
>From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
>Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: H*lp - My Car is Possessed
>
>Hey Greg,
>I had a similar experience, so let me tell you what caused it.  After
>having my throttle stick and reving the engine to I don't even want to
>remember RPM, I discovered it was caused by the air cleaner assembly.  >On the
bottom part of the air cleaner there was a little black rubber >nipple pointing
in toward the carb.  As it turns out, the air cleaner >was turned in the one
position where this nipple interfered with my throttle.  I noticed that if the
throttle went past a certain point, ie. >past the nipple, it could not return.
I just took the damn thing out >and threw it away.  I couldn't see what
functionality it had.  Chances >are it's something like that or something just
as dumb. > >Ray in the desert >87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:46:29 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Re:'67 Delta

Lisa,

I believe that he said around $50 for bumpers in general.  I can check
further if you want.

It is understandable that an Olds would run into something slow - aren't
they all; but what could run into  the back of a properly running Olds?

Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
Decatur, Alabama
'62 Jetfire - '67 Toronado - '68 442 convertible


>Bill - could you ask how much he wants for the rear bumper?  Paranoia -
>
>
>Lisa Madsen
>Anaheim, CA

>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:05:21 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Re:'67 Delta

Sorry,

I can't believe that I assumed - again! - that I was sending this privately.
Being an ex-special ed teacher entitles me to be a slow learner, but this is
getting ridiculous.

Bill Culp    bculp@HiWAAY.net
Decatur, Alabama
'62 Jetfire - '67 Toronado - '68 442 convertible


>Lisa,
>
>I believe that he said around $50 for bumpers in general.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 10:09:07 -0500
From: "Jason K. Adcock" <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 403's

Paul Hartlieb wrote:
>
> > Were they also in Olds Cutlass station wagons?
>
> Not only station wagons, they were available in other Cutlass models,
> too.  Maybe even LeMans and Regals?

According to "Setting the Pace", 403's came in:

1977 - Cutlass, Vista Cruiser, Delta 88, Custom Cruiser, 98, Toronado
1978 - Delta 88, Custom Cruiser, 98, Toronado.
1979 - Custom Cruiser, 98
_____________________________

Jason K. Adcock
mailto:jadcock@vt.edu
http://www.erols.com/adcockjk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:22:28 -0500
From: "Padavano.Joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Painting

Bill Culp wrote:

..A quality job needs lots of experience & labor intensive preparation
even on a good car.  The life of the paint job depends upon this.  MAACO &
many other companies like this use cheap laabor & quick methods to give you
a reasonable product at a low price.

<snip excellent description of quality paint work>

     Bill is absolutely correct.  The cost of a quality paint job is about
     90% labor and 10% materials.

     I had my first 442 (a 68) painted at a Maaco shop in Massachusetts
     over 20 years ago.  I was a freshman in college and thus had little
     extra cash, so I did all the prep work myself.  I stripped the car to
     bare metal, did all the body work, and primed it myself.  I also
     removed all the chrome to further improve my chances of getting a
     quality paint job.  I then signed up for what was then their most
     expensive polyurethane paint job, costing me $179 (back when their
     basic "loss leader" paint job was advertised at $69).

     Imagine my disappointment when I went to pick up the car and noticed
     not only massive orange peel, but also an area where they had somehow
     damaged the filler around the hood scoop I had installed.  Needless to
     say, I was not able to get any satisfaction from them.

     This episode convinced my that I could do a better job of painting
     myself.  I had already demonstrated my ability to shoot primer, so the
     use of the spray gun was not totally foreign to me.  Since that time
     I've shot about a dozen or so cars.

     I remain skeptical (and that's probably nowhere near a strong enough
     term) of the ability of an outfit like Maaco to provide a quality
     paint job for the money they charge.  If I do all the labor myself, it
     still costs me $200-400 for materials alone.  Assuming most
     professional body shops get a discount on materials and apply my 90/10
     rule above, then Bill Culp's estimate of $2000 for a quality paint job
     is quite reasonable.

     I'll be the first to admit that my sample size is quite small and that
     the quality of Maaco paint jobs clearly varies widely from shop to
     shop, but their prices still don't pass a reasonableness test unless
     they're cutting corners on paint quality and labor amount.  Obviously
     this must be the case.

     BTW, I subsequently repainted that 68 myself after a couple of years.
     In my unbiased opinion :-) it came out significantly better than the
     Maaco paint job.

     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com

     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 07:28:28 -0800
From: "Chris Sparks (Mr. Ada)" <mrada@catalina-inter.net>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

Couldn't a person just put the car in neutral and turn off motor with
the ignition
switch not in lock position?

I know that in neutral I can still maneuver a car, even though it is a
hard steering.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 10:30:38 -0500
From: Mark Cornea <mcornea@ford.com>
Subject: test-do not open



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 07:43:30 PST
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 200r4 linkage ???????

Bernie wrote:

> Just wondering, is the shifter linkage different between the 3 and 4
spd
>autos?? A 3spd auto came out, and a  1981 4spd is going in my 86 Salon.
I
>have the console shift.


I'm not sure about the linkage, but I do know you are gonna need a new
console shifter for your OD, otherwise you'll just be in Drive the whole
time...my guess is the linkage is a little different length wise...if
you can't get a shifter from a junkyard, you can get a Hurst or B&M
console shifter to work w/ a 200-4R for around $150 or so...



  John Stolarski
'86 Cutlass Supreme
 The "Black Mariah"


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:33:42 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: H-Pipe

At 04:10 PM 12/5/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Peter Slisz wrote:

>

>The H-pipe (crossover) equalizes the exhaust flow going out the exhaust.  It

>also takes the harshness out of the tone.  It does restrict exhaust back

>pressure, hence the 2 1/2 pipe...

>

>     I guess I don't understand how the H-pipe restricts back pressure.

>     Without an H-pipe, the exhaust from a given cylinder passes through a

>     single exhaust pipe and muffler.  _With_ the H-pipe each cylinder's

>     exhaust pulse sees _both_ pipes and mufflers (at least, aft of the

>     H-pipe), which would appear to cut restriction in half.  Now, I agree

>     that exhaust velocity and pressure are reduced as exhaust system volume

>     is increased (some guy named Bernoulli...),


But when you reach sonic values of compressible gas flow, a converging then
diverging section will increase flow.



which I suspect is the

>     primary reason for the reduction in volume.  Is there some pulse

>     interference phenomena going on which would disrupt the flow and cause an

>     increase in backpressure?

>

>     Joe Padavano

>     padavano.joe@orbital.com

>

>     66 442

>     68 W-30

>     69 H/O

>     70 W-30

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Attachment Converted: "c:\internet\eudora\attach\RFC8221.TXT"

>

<center><paraindent><param>out,out</param>Jeff Verkleeren

<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Scholar -- Gentleman  --  Judge
of Beautiful Women and Fine Whiskey

</color></bold></paraindent>Mechanical Engineering

Penn State University

</center>mailto:jev114@psu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:00:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew A. Senko" <senko@reston.ans.net>
Subject: Re: sounds

> >> > > how bout 4 starters the 1st few lines of the Beach boys "409" I
> have the c/d
> >> You wonder what the song would be like if they had waited a couple
> more
> >> years to record it.......
> >>
> >> "Well, I saved my pennies and my dollars too,
> >> Before I knew that my dream would come true,
> >> When I would buy a brand new 442......"
> >>
> >> "My 4-barrel, 4-speed, dual exhaust, 442......"
> >>
> >> Just a thought...
> >
> >        Hmm....ya know, I think we might have something here, folks!!
> Mike, I'll
> >have my people call your people....we'll do lunch!
>
>
> Maybe we can get Drew Senko and his Band to record it. Do it in kinda
> Punk style maybe.:-) Drew?????
>
> Mick Gillespie


Mick,

I like the idea, but don't hold your breath waiting to hear this from us.
We haven't started doing original material yet, but we hope to Real Soon
Now.

I would envision the song mentioning the year of the car, and that can be a
whole new can of worms on this list.  What year 442 should the song be
about?  As I see it, it would have to be 60's or very early 70's.  Back in
the days when a teenager actually could save their pennies and buy a new car.

- --
Drew Senko
mailto:senko@reston.ans.net
http://members.aol.com/drewinva
Vienna, VA, USA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:28:54 -0500
From: Don Sowers <dstaxpro@lex.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Painting

Padavano.Joe wrote:
>
> Bill Culp wrote:
>
> ..A quality job needs lots of experience & labor intensive preparation
> even on a good car.  The life of the paint job depends upon this.  MAACO &
many other companies like this use cheap labor & quick methods to give you a
reasonable product at a low price. > > <snip excellent description of quality
paint work> > >      Bill is absolutely correct.  The cost of a quality paint
job is about 90% labor and 10% materials.

>This episode convinced my that I could do a better job of painting
>myself.  I had already demonstrated my ability to shoot primer, so the
>use of the spray gun was not totally foreign to me.  Since that time
>I've shot about a dozen or so cars.

(THE ABOVE EDITED FOR BREVITY)

I agree with both these comments.  I would add one thing to this.  When
you take it MAACO and their like, you are part of an assembly line
operation.  The quicker your vehicle is in, shot, and out, the more
money they make.  I would be interested in how many refunds, lawsuits,
etc they are involved in each year.  One of the things they factor into
their business is how many people will take the time, effort and $$$ to
fight it out over a lousy job.  Also, if you read the warranty
carefully, you will note EXACTLY what it covers.  It is just as
important to understand what it DOESN'T cover.  Don't assume because
something isn't specifically excluded that it is covered, because you
will be in for a rude awakening.  These guys pay a lot of money to
attorneys to write this stuff, so they are not rookies and it will not
be written in your favor if possible.

If you aren't qualified to do the job yourself or have a person you can
trust, look around before plunging a lot of money for a new paint job.
Ask at the salvage yards who they recommend.  Ask a new car dealer who
they use.  A lot people assume they do their own work, but around here a
lot of them sublett the work out to independent shops.  If you can't get
recommendations or get them and want to check them out, call the Better
Business Bureau and check on them.  (However, just because a shop has or
does not have complaints against it should not by itself include or
exclude a potential shop.  No one makes everyone happy.  Truthfully,
some people would not be happy if they were given a brand new car
identical to theirs for the price of a paint job.)  After you decide on
a few potentials, get a list of references and check it out.  (A side
note-No body in their right mind gives you a list of unhappy customers.)
And while you are at the shop, write down the license plate, make, model
and color of vehicles sitting around the shop both waiting to be worked
on and those that appear to be finished.  Call a buddy at the state
Motor Vehicle place or the sheriff's office and tell them what you are
doing and get the name and address of the owners of these cars and call
them and inquire how that particular shop has handled their business.
You would be surprised how many people are willing to discuss their
experiences.  I know this may sound a little extreme, but it is your
baby we are talking about and your money.  I guess I'm a little luckier
than most people in this area as my father used to rebuild cars about 20
years ago.  But it is a double edged sword, because I know the kind of
work a true spray gun artist is capable of and I expect it on my cars.
If I don't get it, things get interesting.  My father and I (he was the
artist, I was the flunkie) never let ANYTHING out that you could tell
was ever touched.  If you could tell it wasn't the original factory
paint, it didn't leave.  That meant no overspray, no orange peel, no
runs, no taping mistakes, etc.  That was just the way my dad did
business, and he had more than he could handle.  I'm not bragging (well,
yes I am because he was a pro) but this is the way it is supposed to
be.  And that is what you should expect when you pay out the kind of
money charged today.  (Sorry folks, got the soap box and didn't mean
to.)

Another source of potentials would be the insurance companies.  Be
aware, however, that the insurance companies have substantially more
clout with the shops they deal with than you would have. One other
thing, if you find some one capable AND reasonable, put him on your
Christmas list and keep him happy.  There are a lot more hackers out
there than there are true artist.  A competent spray man can spot a
panel and make it look like it has never been touched when he is done.

Joe, I can tell you one reason your car looked better after you did it.
Love equates care.  You always do better work on your own cars when you
love them.  Somehow it seems they know this, kinda the 'Herbie effect.'

Folks, I know this is a little long, but I hope something useful is in
it somewhere.  Good luck in your searches.

Don Sowers
Nicholasville, Ky

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:51:15 PST
From: "Brent Pinkstaff" <fear_of_tomorrow@hotmail.com>
Subject: TEMPORARY removal from the list

Dear Olds List:
     I am Brent's best friend. I am sending this at his request. As some
of you may already know, Brent was married Saturday afternoon. He
requested that I log into his hotmail and ask to have his address
removed from the Olds list temporarily. The problem is that if all of
these messages go unread and continue to pile up in Hotmail, Brent's
email will crash and he will lose any information stored in his folders
as well as in his In-box. There are already 324 NEW messages in his
in-box. That is only after one weekend. He will send an email to you
letting you know when he has returned from his honeymoon so that he can
be added to the list once again. He wanted to be certain that I told you
that he wishes he could remain on the list for this period as he enjoys
the info. and help, but that the amount of information that would be
lost would not be worthwhile. Thank you very much for seeing that this
gets taken care of.

R.C. Righter
rc_like_the_cola@hotmail.com

TOTALLED '79 Datsun 210 wagon

(No, really I drive a totalled '79 Datsun 210 wagon - all sympathy
welcome!)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:12:07 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: sounds

>I would envision the song mentioning the year of the car, and that can be a

>whole new can of worms on this list.  What year 442 should the song be

>about?  As I see it, it would have to be 60's or very early 70's.  Back in

>the days when a teenager actually could save their pennies and buy a new car.


Drew


Definately for new age in this era it would have to be a pocket rocket 91. you
guys may be a little outa touch with youngsters these days, but the truth is
they have no interest or appreciation for older cars, and their styling. they
just see them as big boats. Someday all those restored and clssic cars everyone
has will be gone just as we will passed on or sold to another generation who 
has
no compassion for this stuff. you guys know what i mean. where do you see you
showcar/musclecar in say 50 years. some boneyard or what?


Give me your thoughts

AEROTECH

<center><paraindent><param>out,out</param>Jeff Verkleeren

<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Scholar -- Gentleman  --  Judge
of Beautiful Women and Fine Whiskey

</color></bold></paraindent>Mechanical Engineering

Penn State University

</center>mailto:jev114@psu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:24:41 -0600
From: Eric.Aksomitis@swp.com
Subject: AN Oldsmobile at work

A lot of people said to me, 'Eric, you're moving, how are you going to move
your couch?'

I told them how, and they all laughed.

Then I went and did just what I planned, I let an Oldsmobile do it's job and
help me out...

The mighty Big Green is more than just personal transportation, it's a
personal servant...

At any rate, you're probably wondering: 'What Am I talking about???'

Well, just go to http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/pics/bgcouch.jpg

and see how I've extended the passenger capacity of my 72 98



EA

http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~aksomi/

mailto:Eric.Aksomitis@swp.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:36:20 -0500
From: Darren King <dking@Legato.COM>
Subject: Wheel grease

Hello...

My 1st posting...I have a 86 Custom Cruiser.  I was replacing the hub/rotor
assembly last week and when I came to put the new ones on, I found that
I only had multi-purpose grease laying around.  I don't have another car,
so I used it.  I'm no mechanic by any means so it was pure ignorance.

My friend told me it is absolutely essential that I re-grease the bearings
with wheel bearing grease.  Is this true?  I'd rather avoid it!  If so, can
I get away with just slapping some new grease in there, or do I have to
take the bearings out, wash them and re-grease.

Thanks,

darren King

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:06:06 -0500 (EST)
From: ea154@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh J. Haviland)
Subject: Re: Wheel grease

Reply to message from dking@Legato.COM of Mon, 08 Dec
>
>Hello...
>
>My 1st posting...I have a 86 Custom Cruiser.  I was replacing the hub/rotor
>assembly last week and when I came to put the new ones on, I found that
>I only had multi-purpose grease laying around.  I don't have another car,
>so I used it.  I'm no mechanic by any means so it was pure ignorance.
>
>My friend told me it is absolutely essential that I re-grease the bearings
>with wheel bearing grease.  Is this true?  I'd rather avoid it!  If so, can
>I get away with just slapping some new grease in there, or do I have to
>take the bearings out, wash them and re-grease.
>
>Thanks,
>
>darren King
>
>

 Hi, I would re-grease the bearings and not take any chances, i tried it
with my '70 D88 and the bearings melted to the spindle, have any idea how
hard it was to find a new spindle and rotor for it??, you can proabably get
away with it if it is for high heat applications, but i woulden't chance it
 Josh

- --
__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__
  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......   ISRT@hotmail.com      \/////////
=================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:18:24 -0400 (AST)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Painting

<description of how to get good referrals snipped>

I think one of the better ways to find a good shop is to ask the local
car guys at cruise nights, sports car meets, car shows, what have you.
These folks love their cars and so they will not hesitate to recommend
a shop that did good work for them, nor will they hesitate in
condemning a shop that messed up their pride and joy.

Once you get a few of the same names popping up again and again, pay
them a visit. See what's in their shop, not only in terms of
equipment, but also in terms of customer vehicles. I think I would
hesitate if I saw a fleet of taxicabs awaiting quickie paint jobs,
while seeing a couple of classics -- in the case of the guy I went to,
one of which was his own project -- would clinch the choice for me.

Greg Beaulieu    ab348@chebucto.ns.ca    Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 08:39:44 -0600
From: "LAURA D. STEINKE" <WPODOM1.HORT-FOREST.LSTEINKE@taexgw.tamu.edu>
Subject: Car for Sale

Howdy everyone, I saw a car for sale round here (that is Bryan,
Texas) and I stopped by to take a look last night.  I don't have much info
on it right now but I can get a little more if anyone is interested.

Olds 98 luxury sedan (age between 67 and 70 I guess, they don't
know)
Missing radio
AC/Heat
blue interior
was white exterior (was painted a flat black for rust protection I'd
guess, the job wasn't great but it's covered)
back bumper dented, otherwise the doors and fenders are straight
rear window has rust around it
back seat material is a bit frayed, but not ripped up
Don't know about the front since it has a seat cover on it
Head liner has a hole ~3 inches large above the drivers door.
(Their words, I havn't heard it run or driven it) "It runs great"
Comes with a parts car (didn't see that)
Asking price is $4,800 but neg. with cash
Contact is "House of Tires" 409-779-2458

Of course if the price has been what it is now, it's probably the reason
it's been sitting out there for quite a few months now. <chuckle>

Laura
66 Delta 88 aka Pook

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:32:29 -0500
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: 403's

>>Can someone tell me all the cars that came with 403's from the factory.  I
>>may need to hunt down another one soon.  Thankya'll.
>>
>>Ray in the desert
>>87 409 Cutlass
>Ray
>
>        You should find them in:
>77-79 Trans Ams
>77-79 Ninety Eights
>77-79 Eighty Eights
>77-79 Toronados

Scratch the '79 Toro's; those third-generation cars came with the 350.

>77-79 Pontiac Bonnevilles
>77-79 Buick Electras
>77-79 Buick LeSabres

Add the '77 Cutlass/Supreme/Vista Cruiser as well.

And boats (real boats, like for waterskiing; not boats like my Electra... ;)
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry       MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:39:26 -0500
From: "Tracey Monske x4794" <monske@ct.picker.com>
Subject: remove

please -- please -- please -- please -- please -- please -- please

REMOVE MY ADDRESS FROM YOUR LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:03:08 -0500
From: AEROTECH <jev114@email.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Wheel grease

At 02:06 PM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Reply to message from dking@Legato.COM of Mon, 08 Dec

>>

>>Hello...

>>

>>My 1st posting...I have a 86 Custom Cruiser.  I was replacing the hub/rotor

>>assembly last week and when I came to put the new ones on, I found that

>>I only had multi-purpose grease laying around.  I don't have another car,

>>so I used it.  I'm no mechanic by any means so it was pure ignorance.

>>

>>My friend told me it is absolutely essential that I re-grease the bearings

>>with wheel bearing grease.  Is this true?  I'd rather avoid it!  If so, can

>>I get away with just slapping some new grease in there, or do I have to

>>take the bearings out, wash them and re-grease.


i wouldn't worry about it i'm sure it'll be fine, it you want to make sure tho,
run the car a good half hour on the highway come home pop off the little cap 
and
see what the grease looks like if it's no extremely thin don't worry about it.


AEROTECH

<center><paraindent><param>out,out</param>Jeff Verkleeren

<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>Scholar -- Gentleman  --  Judge
of Beautiful Women and Fine Whiskey

</color></bold></paraindent>Mechanical Engineering

Penn State University

</center>mailto:jev114@psu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:55:54 -0500
From: "Etzel, Bobby" <Bobby.Etzel@GSC.GTE.Com>
Subject: 70 Cutlass FS

Here is a ad from Classiffied2000:
 Car 1970, Oldsmobile Cutlass sx conv, 48K miles, $12,500/OBO

Options Light Blue exterior, Dark Blue interior Air Conditioning
Cassette Player Convertible Classic Car Two Door Automatic Transmission


Description Low Mileage original Texas car. 455 w 2bb. one of only 763
manufactured. Would consider trade for nice 65-66 Mustang Conv., or
67-69 Camaro Conv. E Mail me at 218949 @ aol.com

Seller Info For sale by private party   (972) 596-0537 [Day] (972)
596-0537 [Eve] Plano, Texas - Dallas 75093

Post Date 04-DEC-97

Price is a little high, but it does have very low mileage.

Bobby
70 442 Escape Back to the...Past


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:02:13 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: engine kill

Chris Brown Witt wrote:

> I guess I might believe that. The world is after all run by boneheads.
> Personally, I think that steering and brakes work ok even w/o "power" and
would > really really rather not buy another motor. For the test I might answer
as they > wish, but in real life, off goes the key.

I tend to agree...  I can always use both feet on that big pedal, I
think they call the brake pedal, or always jam one foot on the brake,
and smack the gas!  I've driven w/o power steering in a car that HAD
power steering, and was too lazy to fix the P/S hoses. No fun, but I'll
do it.
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:10:47 -0600 (CST)
From: hitson@leadbelt.com
Subject: engine paint

Olds engine paints may be purchased directly from Bill Hirsch.  A spray can
runs $8.00 plus $4.50 s&h.

800-828-2061


roger hitson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:14:10 -0500
From: Trevor Lee <lee@mergetel.com>
Subject: Re: sounds

> Definately for new age in this era it would have to be a pocket rocket 91. 
you
guys may be a little outa touch with youngsters these days, but the truth is
they have no interest or appreciation for older cars, and their styling. they
just see them as big boats. Someday all those restored and clssic cars everyone
has will be gone just as we will passed on or sold to another generation who 
has
no compassion for this stuff. you guys know what i mean. where do you see you
showcar/musclecar in say 50 years. some boneyard or what? > Give me your
thoughts > AEROTECH

        Here's my thoughts - who the heck cares what young guys think of 'em.
The important thing is what do the OWNERS think of 'em??  You can ask anybody 
on
the list that owns a RWD 100% genuine piece of American history and almost 
every
one of 'em would tell you that they wouldn't trade it for all the FWD cars on
earth.  =B)  I'm not going to fear where mine'll be 50 years from now, just so
long as I get to enjoy it, great.  If someone else comes to enjoy it when I'm
gone, all the more wonderful.  But don't think that your whole generation
doesn't like the older cars, my friend.  It depends upon the KIND of people, 
not
the age.  At least half the onlookers at cruise nights where I go are people
under 25 years old - and I'm not talking about a small gathering - I'm talking
at least 300-500 people every week.
        As long as there's people out there with appreciation for a true muscle
car/street machine and a spirit of adventure, there'll be 60s & 70s Cutlasses -
and there always will be.  That's my buck and a quarter. - -- Trevor Lee (aka
Screech), Owner - TL Tech Rat-Powered '76 Cutlass Supreme Brougham
http://www.mergetel.com/~lee/cutlass/ mailto:lee@mergetel.com Welland, Ontario,
Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:14:27 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: runaway engine

Dave Ward wrote:

> Here's a question...what if you had a four wheel disc ABS system, and
> you shut the car off while still in motion.  If you throw out the
> anchor, would it still stop the car?  Since ABS systems work with wheel
> speed sensors, the reading would be zero, considering that there's no
> voltage to them.  I can see two possible outcomes...a) the system would
> panic and lock up, or b) the brakes barely work at all  (in other words,
> put your head between your knees and kiss your *ss goodbye!)

Yes, it would still work, but ABS wouldn't engage...  I am not sure of
the cut off of speed on ABS as to what speed it has to be before it
engaged, but I do know at 0MPH, it will not engaged ABS system....
They will work normally, well, normally given they are now manual
brakes, with no assistance.
- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:30:37 -0500
From: Jerry Christopher <IThEFunKI@ViperLink.Net>
Subject: Re: sounds

AEROTECH wrote:

> Definately for new age in this era it would have to be a pocket rocket 91.

Here we go again...  (Sigh)

> you guys may be a little outa touch with youngsters these days, but the truth
is they > have no interest or appreciation for older cars, and their styling.

I'm glad you speak for all of us...  I'd take a 72 442 over a 91
ANYTHING anyday...  I really would rather have gone for an older Cutlass
than the 87 I currently have, but I figured I'd venture outta the 70's
for a while....  BTW, 21 Years on the planet, and I LOVE the older
cars...  Computers and FWD do NOT belong in cars.

> they just see them as big boats.

Yeah, I did see my 78 LeSabre as a boat...  A Destroyer, named SS Big
Blue PIA.  But it ROCKED (Pardon the pun)

> Someday all those restored and clssic cars everyone has will be gone just as
we will > passed on or sold to another generation who has no compassion for 
this
stuff.

Hmmm...  Doubt it...  Maybe you don't but I am sure that you don't speak
as a whole.  Try telling this to the 12 year old kid that just bought a
68 Mustang for $1000 from his grass cutting money that lives down the
street from me...  Or the 20 Year old friend of mine at work that LOVES
his 77 Pontiac Phoenix.

> you guys know what i mean. where do you see you showcar/musclecar in say 50
years. > some boneyard or what?

Nope...  I see fewer on the road due to age and lack of parts and what
not...  But it's now 1997, soon to be 98...  How many 40's and 30's cars
are still out there???  Now, outta those, how many carry production
stats like those of the 70's, or 60s?

I see the 90's model cars being no where in 50 years...  Electronics in
them won't live that long, and they'll all end up being big bucks to
replace...   I see a few select cars from the 80's and 90s making it for
quite a few more years to come, but VERY limited as opposed to what's
out there now.  As much as you may argue the case, you have to be a true
car lover, not a specific year or model lover, an all out all around car
guy to understand...  Yeah, I'd own another Mustang...  At the drop of a
hat, THEY impress me, I'd own late 60's Mopar Muscle, THAT impresses me,
I'd own Muscle GMs, THEY impress me.  I like them all, I have prefences,
but I still like them all...

Yes, the Quad 4 is impressive, but not enough to convert the classic
guys.

Please, remember, what is cool to you may be tacky to others...  Not
everyone thinks 4Cyls are cool, no matter what they can do.  And of
course, not everyone thinks 8's are cool...  But they learn to live with
it.

So, now off my soap box, and I'm just gonna watch the rest of this
thread....  No more about V8s VS Q4s anymore, I don't like banging my
head against a brick wall.

> Give me your thoughts
> AEROTECH
>
 >
 >
 >
 > mailto:jev114@psu.edu

- --
                 Jerry Christopher
     ___        HTTP://WWW2.Viperlink.Net/Members/IThEFunKI
 ___/.o \__,      1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
_=O------O=__________It ain't my father's Oldsmobile_______

------------------------------

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