
oldsmobile-digest       Monday, October 13 1997       Volume 01 : Number 902



Re: Dual-Snorkel Air Cleaner
Re: Trans Troubles (fwd)
Re: rear seal
Re: speaker ohm question? - LONG!
Re: Hubcaps
Dual Snorkel air cleaners...
Re: Which year 350 is best?
Re: Boonesboro car show
Re: UNBOUNCE: '89 Cutlass
Re: coolant overflow
Re: coolant overflow
Re: Will 455 fit in 1977 98???
Re: Max tire width
Re: TH-200-4R's
Re: TH700-R4
Re: Old Car Magazines
Re: Valve Cover Breather
Re: 65 442 performance
Re: 65 442 performance
Re: 66 Olds
Re: Numbers question?
Re: TH-200-4R's
Re: Experimental Engines (was: Old Car Magazines)
(guest) TONER
71 442 convertible rear speaker help
Illinois Plate
New Olds Archive Available
Re: Metering valve seals
1963 Starfire spare tire / jack stowage
Cutlass Supreme Calais Homepage
Re: PARTS: Clean-out Sale
Re: Electrical Help Please
Re: PARTS: Clean-out Sale
California events
Re: Boonesboro car show
Re: Max tire width
Re: Illinois Plate
Re: '61 Starfire Top Question
Next FAQ Release
Re: Valve Cover Breather
Factory experimental engines and parts
Content-Type: text/plain
RE: '67 Cutlass suspension/performance mods
Re: '61 Starfire Top Question
Re: Concerning 350's and 455's
value of a 455 block
Factory experimental engines and parts
Re: '67 Cutlass suspension/performance mods

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:09:45 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Dual-Snorkel Air Cleaner

> Did they also have pipe to an air box(es) in the front grill?  Also, what
> is its own therm-ac unit?  Does that mean that both snorkels have a heat
> stove connection?  Thanks.

No on both accounts.  The driver's side has a hose and duct inlet near
the radiator, not really a ram air thing, just trying to get a little
cooler air.  The other snorkel has nothing but its own little thermac
unit, which is a vacuum operated flapper that opens, ala every late
model GM with a 4 bbl carb has on it.  The little snorkel faces toward
the back, like right at the evaporator housing.  Nothing special, and it
doesn't have provisions for installing a hose to it, since it is
flared.  I wouldn't waste a rare air cleaner like this anyway.  It'd be
better to go get TWO 307 standard air cleaners, take the snorkel off of
one and weld it to the other at the opposite angle.  This way, you can
use another standard air hose inlet arrangement on the other side.  And
if you can get someone to weld it up right, it would even look like it
was meant to be.

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:25:08 -0400
From: Mike Rothe <MROTHE@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Trans Troubles (fwd)

padavano.joe wrote:
> 
> 1.  Using the column shift, leaving it in 1/low it will stay in low only.
>      That's normal.

Depends.  If the 1-2 shift valve was modified by slicing off one edge of
the land or removing it completely, THEN the trans would stay in low. 
If it is a "normal" TH400 with the 1-2 shift valve intact, it should
automatically shift to second at around 50 mph, even if you leave it in
low.
> 
>      And, yes, the stock tranny does have a governor which limits RPM at
>      which the trans should upshift.  This is usually used to govern the
>      RPM at wide open throttle.

The governor and modulator work together.  The modulator uses engine
vacuum signal to vary the shift point, while the governor uses tailshaft
rpm to help with shift points using vehicle speed. Both working in
conjunction basically varies trans internal line pressures to allow the
upshifts to occur at a certain speed depending on engine load
condition.  There is too much going on here to simplify it in a
paragraph or two.  The service manual is a good start to read up on how
these little guys work. 

Mike Rothe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:37:48 -0700
From: "Forrest Johnson" <johnson@edisongroup.com>
Subject: Re: rear seal

> Um, I think that's a 460(?) f*rd engine the seal is made for.  The FAQ
> should have more info.


Yes it does.
Taken from FAQ (www.442.com -- Technical section)
under sub-heading Neoprene Seals:
"

The big block Olds takes a F*rd 460 neoprene rear main seal. 

I looked through my "library" and came across the following in the
December 1984 issue of
W-Machines, the newsletter of the OCA Performance Chapter. I found
information not only on the
big block but the small block as well. 

The big block can use the 460 F*ord seal. The Fel-Pro part number is B/S
40032. The Ford part
number is E9AZ-6701-A or D2VE-6701-AA. 

The small block can use the rear main seal for the old F*rd 292 engine.
It is Fel-Pro B/S 6141. "

I found these at NAPA parts using the F*rd engine size.
For the F*rd 292 use - 57 - 59 T*bird or M*rcury.
The 460 was made more years, so easier to find.

FYI, These parts are getting hard to find, so stocking
up on them might be an idea. Ask your dealer about stock
and availability.

Forrest

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:02:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com
Subject: Re: speaker ohm question? - LONG!

In a message dated 97-10-12 19:05:20 EDT, you write:

<< .  The premise was
 to add a second pair of speakers to achieve 8 ohms.  If the second pair
 of speakers happens to be 4" drivers, or something small enough to fit
 up front somewhere where they'd do any good, their frequency response
 will be much different than the 6X9's.  You  might not see any lower
 than 400 Hz on 'em.  Which would make 8 ohms from 400 Hz and up, but
 you'd still be at 4 ohms from 50 to 400 Hz.  This may stress out that
 amp a bit.  It's doubtful, but it's definately something to keep in
 mind.  If you're strongly concerned about keeping your factory deck's
 amp safe, you'll want the second speakers to have as wide of freq
 response as possible.   >>

Something you want to remember too is that it takes more power to
push a lower hertz signal than it does a higher one.  This means that
the part of the amp you want to protect the most is that lower 50 to 
400 Hz part...TIM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:27:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: Hubcaps

> Would apreciate a line on caps [ full wheel with spinners ] for '56
> Super Holiday "98" Two were stolen in '56 , still have two
> originals.These are the only parts missing from factory original car. No
> kidding,at 12,826 miles even the tires are still factory issue. Been
> stored since '57 in heated storage, Have factory Delco battery rebuilt
> and dry charged.

	Wow!!  Very cool, indeed!  I think Fusick has repro '56 spinner
caps, but they're pretty pricy if I remember.  I think 56 and 57 are a
couple of the only years they repro hubcaps for.  Must be a pretty popular
year for stock restorations.  I'm going to be looking for a set for my
'60, and so far no luck.  I guess if anybody sees any, let me know!


				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:36:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Dual Snorkel air cleaners...

> Robert Barry wrote:
> 
> > The trick setup, of course, would be a dual-snorkel air cleaner from the
> > H/O/442, ducted to cool outside air.
> 
> That's it!  In fact, Greg P. and I and a buddy of his are going scrounging
> today (in about 10 minutes in fact) and I'd like to find a dual snorkel air
> cleaner and kinda make a "home-made" ram air setup.  Just for fun, though. 
> I don't expect any real performance benefits.  It'd look real cool, too!


	Another option for a late model dual snorkel is one from an (dare
I say) 82-85 Z-28.  You got one on the Z with the H.O. 305, and it was
duckted for a sort of ram air effect, with scoops terminating above the
headlights, right under the hood.  Like the olds, both sides have a
thermac, the left side connecting to the stovepipe.  The snorkels are
really wide, and kinda thin.  Oh, and the back is also cleanenced for and
HEI distributor.  The advantage here I guess is that the snorkels were
designed for ducts, and it's still available from GM dealers (just look in
the performance parts catalog, they have the air cleaner, ducts and scoops
in there).  I'm not sure if any of the other stuff could be adapted, but
it might be worth checking out.  If you find one in the junkyard, it will
have an orange "5.0 Litre H.O." sticker on it, (I guess it would work for
a 307 anyway :) but I'm pretty sure the ones the dealer sells lack that
sticker.  Something to think about anyway...
	
				
	
				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:47:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Which year 350 is best?

On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, John Stolarski wrote:

> OK, as some of you know...I am saving to try and turn my '86 Cutlass 
> into a Mustang killer...anyway, what year 350 is the best, I've heard 
> many7 different things from Early 70's to I'd have to get a post '73 for 
> emissions components to hook up. So...I ask you all the question...what 
> year should I try to get so I can still drive legal, and have a good bit 
> of horsepower out of it...while I', at it, are there heads that are 
> better than 5A heads (stupid question I'm sure) for a s/b? Still 
> learning...
> John
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
Hey, why not go for a 403?  I have a overbored 403 (now 409) in my 87 and
Mustangs are no longer even a slight challenge.  Anyway, it is most
important to have an import-slayer.  There is nothing better than smoking
some young "cool-guy" in his pearl white Nissan 300SUX.  Next victim will
hopefully be a Viper.  Of course that'll be kind of tough to acomplish
with no cubic dollars left in my wallet.  They've still got me beat by
almost a full second.  At least it's American though.  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:52:23 -0500
From: dnewman@wcbi.com (Doug Newman)
Subject: Re: Boonesboro car show

Don Sowers wrote:
  
<snip>

>Are most of the car shows this lightly attended by the Oldsmophites or only
in this >area?  (Nicholasville, Ky)  

I know what you mean, Don.  I have the only Olds in nine out of ten shows I
attend.  (Small shows - only about 70 - 100 entries.  Mostly street rods and
trucks.)  But that's fine with me, because that just means you've got first
place sewed up when you arrive, right?  :-)

Doug Newman
Columbus, MS
1987 442

http://www.442.com/newman.html  (Updated by Bryceman 9/18/97)
http://wcbi.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:50:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: UNBOUNCE: '89 Cutlass

On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Greg Beaulieu wrote:

> Not a list member, so reply directly... this one sounds interesting 
> too... I'm assuming they are referring to a RWD Cutlass.
> 
> Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date:	Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:29:48 -0400
> From:	Kelly Leblanc <kaleblanc@snet.net>
> Reply-To: kaleblanc@snet.net
> Subject: Oldsmoble
> 
> I myself own a 1989 Cutlass "Phantom",1 of 200 put together in East
> Hartford Conn.And I beleive sold only in Conn. and Mass.(I could be
> wrong) Have only seen 2 others like it and almost jump on the guy
> driving the first one thinking it was mine...oops!
> But love the car and plan on keeping it for quite awhile.
> Art Filek
> Kaleblanc@snet.com
> 
> writing it from Windham Conn.
> 
> 
What is a Cutlass Phantom?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:02:31 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: coolant overflow

HEY!  Can anyone answer this question?
I have an 87 Cutlass with 3 speed auto on the column.  I soon will be
converting to a 200-4R.  What I need to know is if I have to change the
steering column, just the collar on it, or if I can leave it and still be
able to use my gear shifter.  My driving habits do not require the ability
to lock it down in first gear ever, but I would like to have the option.
So I'm guessing that if I changed the trans only, ny gear shifter would
be: P R N OD O 2.  No slot left for 1!  I don't want to convert to floor
shifter either.  Thanx

Ray in the desert
87 409 Cutlass

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:06:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: coolant overflow

On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Ray wrote:

> HEY!  Can anyone answer this question?
> I have an 87 Cutlass with 3 speed auto on the column.  I soon will be
> converting to a 200-4R.  What I need to know is if I have to change the
> steering column, just the collar on it, or if I can leave it and still be
> able to use my gear shifter.  My driving habits do not require the ability
> to lock it down in first gear ever, but I would like to have the option.
> So I'm guessing that if I changed the trans only, ny gear shifter would
> be: P R N OD O 2.  No slot left for 1!  I don't want to convert to floor
> shifter either.  Thanx
> 
> Ray in the desert
> 87 409 Cutlass
> 
> 
Re: not coolant overflow.  I don't know why it says that.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:16:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Will 455 fit in 1977 98???

On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Jeremy Enos wrote:

> I discovered that the 1977 98 Regency I bought has a 403 in it that
> is an oil-aholic.  I just retired a 76 98 w/ a 455 in it due to body
> deterioration, but the engine was working wonderfully even with the
> 161,000 on it.  At a glance, it doesn't look like there is any way that
> the 455 could fit in the the spot that the 403 is in, but according to
> mechanics I've called- the books say it will fit w/ the proper mounting
> brackets.  I wanted to ask somewhere where I could get an informed possibly
> first-hand answer, so I'm posting here.  Please advise!
> Thanks-
> 
> 	Jeremy
> 
> P.S. I won't have to switch engines if everyone on this list could send me
> just one quart of oil...  j/k ;-)
> 
> 
What are you going to do with the 403?  Want to sell it to me?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:37:28 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Max tire width

A question:
I have an 87 Cutlass with 235 60R 15 size tires.  It seem to me that this
is the max width for all G bodies, assuming you don't want your wheels to
stick out obnoxiously.  But, I have seen Monte SS's with 255's.  Can
someone tell me how this is possible without cutting into anything.  I get
no traction at all now and it is kind of frustrating.  Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:45:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Ray <rayc@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: TH-200-4R's

On Thu, 9 Oct 1997 RISHIG@aol.com wrote:

> About the 200-4R's how do you grand nationalize it ? What components do I
> need and how do I get it? Any info would be greatly appreciated
> 
I'm not sure exactly what components are necessary to upgrade your trans.
I would say your best bet is to talk to a GN enthusiast transmission
builder.  There are many people into that.  Also the name Ken Belle I
believe it is a person/company I think that specializes in GN everything.
I'm sure they could hook you up with some info.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 03:46:58 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: TH700-R4

- -----Original Message-----
From: John C. Ramsey <jramsey@mail.utexas.edu>
<snip>
>  I also know that the tail-section of
>the Vette tranny is made differently than other 700-R4's, the different
>being that this one was meant to bolt to a bracket that went from the
>tranny to the top of the diff (the Vette IRS made this possible).  So
>I'll probably have to purchase another one of these at the dealer.
>
F-bodies also have a arm that goes from the tranny to the rear end. I know
because I have 700 from a '86 Z-28. GM has a tail shaft housing that has the
mounting pad in the same location as a TH400. I was told the only way to get
one is through a dealer but you might want to try a full size truck (up to
'92). I don't have the part number handy but could probably find it. If I
remember right its around $45.

>Also, do I need to change cross members

Not if you get the housing above.
This site has a little info.

http://www.cobweb.net/~blazer40/700R4faq.html

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:15:38 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Old Car Magazines

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Williams <tjwilli@Megavision.com>
>I was wondering if anyone is familiar
>with or has seen any of the experimental motors olds built 
http://www.442.com/museum.html
Daren 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:28:43 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Valve Cover Breather

- -----Original Message-----
From: Adcock, Jason K. <jadcock@vt.edu>


>Hi guys and gals.  I assume there is a way to replace my PCV valve with a
>cool lookin breather, right

Yes but if your engine has much blow by you will quickly find out what the
inside of an engine smells like while your driving. Not something I care to
smell! There is also the problem of pressure build up from not properly
evacuating the engine.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:03:45 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: 65 442 performance

- -----Original Message-----
From: Travis Adams <cashmore@imt.net>


>For anyone interested, I recently purchased a G-Tech/Pro to get a handle on
>what my car is capable of.

>My car ran a 14.67 @ 97 mph.

I've seen these but wondered how accurate they are. Have you ran your car at
the strip to verify G-tech times?

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: ea154@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh J. Haviland)
Subject: Re: 65 442 performance

Reply to message from daren@revealed.net of Mon, 13 Oct
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Travis Adams <cashmore@imt.net>
>
>
>>For anyone interested, I recently purchased a G-Tech/Pro to get a handle on
>>what my car is capable of.
>
>>My car ran a 14.67 @ 97 mph.
>
>I've seen these but wondered how accurate they are. Have you ran your car at
>the strip to verify G-tech times?
>
>Daren
>
>
>
>
  If you do it on a pretty flat strip of land, yes very accurate (not
counting reaction time like in et) a friend and i both purchased one of
these, and they are pretty fun for awhile, and the 0-60 seems to be pretty
close to the book as well :-)
 

- --
__/////////\  Budgreen, ea154@cleveland.freenet.edu  /\\\\\\\\\__             
  \\\\\\\\\/      Josh......                         \/////////
=================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:36:51 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: 66 Olds

- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
>
>Actually, I don't think that the surface area of the piston has anything to
>do with the increase in power; the fact that each cylinder on the 350 is
>inhaling approximately 2.5 cubic inches more of air/fuel mixture every
>other revolution means that there is that much more energy twisting that
>crank.

I was thinking along the lines of how hydraulics work. Not the exact same
thing but very similar to piston moving in an engines cylinder. If you have
two cylinders with different diameters and put the same hydraulic pressure
on them the cylinder with the larger diameter will move with more
force(torque). At my work there is a tester that uses this principal to test
parts

>The power characteristics (Torque and hp curves) of two
>identical-sized engines running at the same efficiency will be different if
>one is big-bore/short-stroke and the other is small-bore/long-stroke, but
>as far as the actual measured power output, they would be nearly the same
>in peak or average hp.

To quote Bob H.
"Comparing the 67 400 with the 68:
The '67 400 cid 442 motor had 440 lbs.ft at 350 horses.
The '68 400 cid 442 motor had 435 lbs.ft at 350 horses.
I don't believe the last torque numbers for the simple reason that the
'68-'69 motors were dogs at the track.  Great street motors but they just
don't rev like the short stroke motors.  Anyway, those are the "factory"
numbers. On the track the '68-'69's weren't as good. "

Aren't the '67 big bore/short stroke and '68 small bore/long stroke? They
both have about the same power ratings but as Bob said the '68-'69 were dogs
so the bore/stroke must have an effect on what actually happens as far as
performance is concerned.

I also vaguely remember reading an article one time that stated that a large
bore/short stroke will produce more torque than a small bore/long stroke,
but I can't remember exactly what it said so I guess that don't count.

It's about 5:30 a.m. and I've had about 3 hours sleep so I'm sure what I've
said didn't come across the way I meant it so if it doesn't make sense that
why.

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:12:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Greg Beaulieu <ab348@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Numbers question?

On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Gary Manton wrote:
> Anyway, another issue, not as important as the last, just gaining
> information.....  Just below the windshield, and under the hood was a plate
> with the following information, I was wondering if anyone could help in
> understanding all of it......
> 
> 64    3467BODYLA  3833
> TRIM 993  PAINT W

That's your body plate. All my references are for the F-85, so all I can 
tell you is the paint code of "W" is for Midnight Mist (dark blue 
metallic?). The TRIM 993 indicates the interior color/fabric, but I have 
no listing for what that corresponds to. The first line indicates model 
year 64, 3467 = series number and body style (a full-size convertible I 
believe) and the LAN number is the factory indicator (Lansing plant) and 
body sequence number, the number of that body built in Lansing that year.

Greg Beaulieu        ab348@chebucto.ns.ca        Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:22:38 -0500
From: "Daren & Laurie Hendley" <daren@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: TH-200-4R's

- -----Original Message-----
From: Cnvrtbl442@aol.com <Cnvrtbl442@aol.com>
>He chose the 200 over the 700-R4 because,
> in his experience, the 200 holds up better and can handle more torque.
> Ray >>
>
>The 200 also has a lower first gear and a better overdrive gear.

The 700 has a lower 1st.

Tranny   1st          2nd     3rd     4th
PG     1.76/1.82      1       ---      ---
350       2.52        1.52       1      ---
400       2.48        1.48       1      ---
200-4r   2.74        1.57       1     .67
700-r4   3.06        1.62       1     .70

Art Carr claims that the 200 and 700 can handle about 600 ft. lbs. of torque
and 700 hp.
I mentioned in a earlier post that there is a tail shaft housing for the 700
that will allow it to bolt to the cross member in the same place as a TH400
(with a TH400 mount) the GM# is 8673406

Daren

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:53:47 GMT
From: Terry Ford <terry@trades.net>
Subject: Re: Experimental Engines (was: Old Car Magazines)

At 12:08 AM 10/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>..I was wondering if anyone is familiar with or has seen any of the 
>experimental motors olds built but did not use, in one issue dated July 1969 
>they have a two page color layout of 7 Oldsmobile engines that never hit the 
>streets...
>     
>     Tom,
>     
>     I also have that issue.  If you will notice the green, single overhead 
>     cam 455 in the back row, notice that it has two Q-jet carbs on a 
>     cross-ram type of manifold.  I actually obtained one of these factory 
>     cross rams at a swap meet years ago, and have it sitting in my 
>     basement.  The manifold will physically fit on a regular 455, but the 
>     manifold's size precludes the use of a regular distributor (neither a 
>     points-type nor an HEI will fit), so I have not yet been able to run 
>     the manifold on a car.  I assume I'll need to fabricate some sort of 
>     crank-trigger ignition system, but since these really didn't exist in 
>     1969, I'm wondering what the factory used on this application.  
>     Perhaps some sort of offset drive distributor?  I've seen these used 
>     on 6-71 supercharger installations.
>     
>     The two Q-jets, by the way, mount "back-to-back", with the primaries 
>     facing the valve covers and with a special bellcrank linkage which 
>     runs between the two.  Large threaded allen-head plugs in the 
>     manifold's plenums provide access to the manifold-to-cylinder head 
>     bolts.
>     
>     Anyone ever see this engine or intake before?  Any info on the 
>     distributor configuration used would be appreciated.
>     
>     Joe Padavano
>     padavano.joe@orbital.com
>     
>     66 442
>     68 W-30
>     69 H/O
>     70 W-30
>
>
>
>I have lit. obtained from the olds history center pertaining to a W-43 "455
Hemi" and a 4 cam racing version of the same used in boat racing!

Terry Ford

------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:03:47 -0400
From: Al Barlow <iamoz@ime.net>
Subject: 71 442 convertible rear speaker help

This is long but here goes:
I have a 1971 Olds 442 convertible and when I was replacing my old carpet
with new carpet, I noticed I had a rear speaker behind ny rear seat. It had
(1) blue wire attached and this wire ran up to the front of the car under
the dash. The radio I installed was out of a late 60's early 70's car, I
think. There was (1) blue wire coming out of the back of the radio with the
same type of connector attached to it as was attached to the (1) blue wire
that was coming from the rear speaker. I connected these and nothing
happened. The (2) wires running from the radio to the front speaker are
solid blue and blue with a white stripe. I tried attaching the speaker wire
to each of these and got nothing from the blue with a white stripe wire and
just a little static from the solid blue wire. I thought speakers all
needed (2) wires running to them to make them work? Also, I'm not sure if
this is anything but beside the rear speaker there was a ground wire
attached to the same metal brace as the speaker but it was not connected to
anything. (just a loose wire) Could this be anything? Can anyone help as I
would likt to have this rear speaker work.

Thank You
Al Barlow
1971 Olds 442 Convertible
Thomaston, Maine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:07:51 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Illinois Plate

Scouring the antique places today picked up a Illinois license plate
stamped with 1969.  Nice condition, some definitely came off of wrecked cars!


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:49:23 -0500
From: "Easton,Jeffrey" <Jeff.Easton@abbott.com>
Subject: New Olds Archive Available

I have placed the latest set of Olds Mailing List
archives on my website.  This zip file contains
Digests 800-899, covering Aug.15th thru Oct 12th.

The Archives have grown to be over 20Mb is size
for the complete set, which goes back to the
beginning of the the mailing list in 1995.
Drew Senko has been kind enough to warehouse
the older digests for me up to this point, but
soon that will disappear.
Recently Drew has informed me that due
to an organizational change where he works,
he will be losing his access to his disk space.

So, the moral of this story is that if you want
any archived material, now is the time to get it.
When Drews space goes away, I will return to
hosting just the most recent archive.

- -Jeff
jeff.easton@abbott.com
Grayslake, ILL

1970 442 4-Speed
see the archives at http://www.calcon.net/~easton

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:58:34 -0000
From: "Lloyd W. Culp" <bculp@HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Re: Metering valve seals

 Mike,

I don't know of a metering valve seal, but I do know that these valves were
used on all disc brake GM cars of that era.  To me that means that those
pesky Chevy guys have them & they are probably reproduced.  Check out their
suppliers.

Bill Culp
Decatur, Alabama




>I am having trouble finding metering valve seals for my 69 H/O.  Power
>disc brakes.  This is the little bugger that is bolted to a bracket on
>the power booster next to the master cylinder.  It can be disassembled.
>Mine is leaking around the rear seal.  I need to replace this seal.  It
>is a Bendix seal # 2225844.  Anyone know where to get one?  Or two?  I
>know Supercars Unlimited swaps you yours for theirs for 90 bucks, but I
>can't see spending 90 dollars for a rubber seal.  There isn't hardly
>anything in these valves anyway.  Simple.  I just can't find a seal for
>it.  Or not yet anyway.
>
>TIA,
>Mike Rothe
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:09:40 -0400
From: Ted Loranz <tloranz@acumeter.com>
Subject: 1963 Starfire spare tire / jack stowage

Does anyone now how the spare tire & jack are stowed in the 1963 88
series. I think I have all the parts but can't figure out how to put
them together and the trunk label is illegible.

Ted Loranz
tloranz@acumeter.com
OCA029666
1963 Starfire Coupe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:29:49 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Cutlass Supreme Calais Homepage

Hey, everybody.  If you have an interest in the 1978-1984 Cutlass Supreme
Calais series (off of which spawned the 442 and H/O for those years), check
out my unofficial page at

http://www.erols.com/adcockjk/calais/calais.html

Please email me if I have left off any pertinent information or if you have
anything to add.  Thanks much!
- -- 
Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu
OCA #028044

http://www.erols.com/adcockjk
1984 Cutlass Supreme Calais
1992 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:45:01 -0400
From: Jim & Joanne Chermack <chermac@exis.net>
Subject: Re: PARTS: Clean-out Sale

At 09:00 PM 10/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I'll take the '64 taillight lenses (both) & the V8 emblem.
>
>I'll send money - what about shipping, is it incld?  I've bought a couple
>things from you before.
>
>
>
>
>Lisa Madsen
>Anaheim, CA


Lisa

        The prices don't include shipping. That would be about $5.00 to your
place.

Jim Chermack
C&M Classic Parts

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:55:07 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Help Please

>> I was investigating why my courtesy lights were not working on my 1971 442
>> convertible and discovered first that the fuse was bad and second that the
>> bulbs were missing. When I replaced the fuse and bulbs, the courtesy lights
>> worked but would not go off. I removed both door button switches thinking
>> one might be bad and made sure my light switch was not turned all the way
>> but the lights stiil remain on.

How many wires did you find attached to the left (driver's) pillar?
I think you should expect to find two: interior lights and key-in
reminder buzzer. If you only found one, the other may be hung up in
the pillar somewhere and grounded. It's also possible that the headlight
switch may be grounding them constantly despite the rotation of the knob
feeling normal, and not being in the fully-counterclockwise position.
The rheostat and interior-light portion of the headlamp switch is _not_
a very reliable design.

>> Can anyone give me some ideas as to how I
>> might find the problem and fix it? Any help would be greatly appreciated as
>> I am quite ignorant when it comes to electrical problems.
>
[...]
> my most strong  premonition is that its the ground wires 
> going to the 2 side door switches..

Agreed... somewhere in the ground leads from each interior light
up to the pin switches. Eliminate the light housings as a source
of the unwanted ground by removing them from their mounts. If they
are still stuck on when hanging by their wires, the ground is in
the wiring somewhere and not in the mountings of the lights.

> check these for a ground by using an ohm meter and checking any 
> drain to ground...

Agreed, although the fact that the lights are on is confirmation of
a ground already. I think you'll have to physically trace the wires
and see where they're damaged; e.g. somebody drove an interior screw
through the wiring harness, something like that.

> that could be the map light...

I don't think so, since turning that on with its own switch does
not turn on all the lights by design, only that one bulb. When you
open the door, only the lights sharing the ground wire leading to 
that pin switch will operate.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:58:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Geo679@aol.com
Subject: Re: PARTS: Clean-out Sale

do u have any parts for a 71 supreme ragtop. if so e-mail me asap. it is
going to be a gift for my dad for his cutlass. thanks. George philly, pa

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:59:35 -0700 (MST)
From: idaholc@primenet.com (william goodnight)
Subject: California events

I am considering a quick trip to see family in the Bay Area of California in
the next few weeks.  Does anyone know of any OCA or Rod & Custom events near
the end of Oct.?
Bill Goodnight
Goodnight & Associates, Inc.
idaholc@primenet.com
Boise, Idaho

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:07:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: NotDads442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Boonesboro car show

Don't feel bad about being one of few or the only Olds at a car show.  I've
been to 4 different judged shows so far this year and the total number of
other Oldsmobiles I've seen has been 4.  That's right.  If i'm not the only
Olds, there is usually only one other.  These shows have ranged from south
central KS to south central Nebraska.  so it's not something unique to your
part of the country either.

The other cars that I've seen so far this year have been:

1 - Rallye 350 unsure of the year.
2 - Supper 88s I think one 54 and one 55.  The 55 had been desicrated with a
454 Ch*vy.
1 - 73 442

The one non-judged show I was at (Lake Afton free car show - they claimed to
have over 2000 cars by noon and still more were coming in) looked more like
an Olds used car lot.  There were probably 10-15 Oldsmobiles there and I'd
bet more than half had for sale signs in them.

Cecil
1991 W41
OCA #29604

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:02:02 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Max tire width

Go check out the Buick Grand National/T-type home page.  I don't know the
address off hand, but it's easy to find with a search engine.  There's a
section there discussing tires and wheels, what will fit, offsets to use,
wheel width, etc.  What will fit a GN will fit your car too.
- --
Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                          '84 Hurst/Olds
http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                         '78 Cutlass Supreme
Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.              '78 Chev 1/2ton (Olds 350)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:15:20 -0400
From: Jay Britt <jbritt@nas1.360.cdpd.net>
Subject: Re: Illinois Plate

James Thingwold wrote:
> Scouring the antique places today picked up a Illinois license plate
> stamped with 1969.  Nice condition, some definitely came off of wrecked cars!

That's the same way I found a set of 1967 Virginia plates, they were
hiding in a box of junk at a antique store in Greeneville, TN, I think I
only paid $5 for the set (2 required in VA).

Does anyone know if its legal to repaint these for either show or to
obtain a current registration from DMV?.

Jay Britt
OCA#29460
'67 Cutlass Supreme

- -- 
__________________________________________________________
Jay Britt                        360° Communications  
Systems Engineer             Wireless PBX & Data Services   
(757) 687-3317              One Columbus Center, Suite 530
(757) 473-0063 Fax          Virginia Beach, Virginia 23462
mailto:jbritt@nas1.360.cdpd.net           USA
url: http://www.360.com
__________________________________________________________
This message was sent from a wireless data device using
360° Communications' CDPD Wireless Data Services.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:16:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANTIQOLDS@aol.com
Subject: Re: '61 Starfire Top Question

Hi Paul
  I was at Hershey also about 10 cars down the row from the 61 Starfire. I
showed her some pictures of my 61 Starfire but none of them showed the silver
stripe on the roof. My car is an original 50,000 mile car and has this
stripe. Starfire was the only model to use it and 61 was the only year. If I
had the equipment I would scan in a picture to you, want me to mail you a
picture?



Everett   OCA# 1961   1961 Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:19:28 -0400
From: Jay Britt <jbritt@nas1.360.cdpd.net>
Subject: Next FAQ Release

Does anyone know when the next version of the Olds List FAQ is going to
be released?.

Jay Britt
OCA#29460
'67 Cutlass Supreme
'89 Cutlass Calais SL


- -- 
__________________________________________________________
Jay Britt                        360° Communications  
Systems Engineer             Wireless PBX & Data Services   
(757) 687-3317              One Columbus Center, Suite 530
(757) 473-0063 Fax          Virginia Beach, Virginia 23462
mailto:jbritt@nas1.360.cdpd.net           USA
url: http://www.360.com
__________________________________________________________
This message was sent from a wireless data device using
360° Communications' CDPD Wireless Data Services.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:18:43 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Valve Cover Breather

>>>Hi guys and gals.  I assume there is a way to replace my PCV valve with a
>>>cool lookin breather, right?  Matt C., have you done this?  I thought
>>>someone here has mentioned doing it before, but I can't remember.  I don't
>>>know what the effects are of doing this, like poor emissions, or something
>>>like that.  Thanks for the help!

As noted below, you don't want to disconnect the PCV valve, which is
connected to the base of the carb by a 3/8" hose. There are breathers
designed to fit into the 3/4" hole, but you'd only want to use one of them
if you've got some other source sucking out the fumes from the crankcase. I
disconnected the PCV hose on my SX way back before I knew anything, and on
a high-speed higway run, I was blowing oil out the breather on the other
valve cover. Of course, in my wisdom (foolishness), I diagnosed this as bad
rings, which contributed to my decision to pull the car off the road for a
complete rebuild. I was puzzled as to why the cylinder walls didn't show
the wear that I expected them to display... 

>> The PVC valve had nowhere to go anyhow because I replaced my air
>> cleaner, plus the fact that it was torn open didn't help either. 

to which Mike Rothe added:
>Hmmmmm.  Last time I checked, the breather vent went to the air cleaner,
>and the PCV valve went to the carb base.  Running without some

Exactly. If you have an aftermarket air-cleaner, the original breather
hoses that connects to the air-cleaner will just be hanging out there. That
breather can be left alone, since it's job is to take in air, not exhaust
it (though excessive blowby will cause it to exhaust air and oil), and the
factory part has a kind of wire mesh to keep creepy-crawlies from taking a
hot oil bath, or it can be replaced with a better-looking aftermarket
breather designed to fit that 1.22" hole in the valve cover grommet. I've
got an Edelbrock one on my SX now, since the original low-rise Toronado air
cleaner won't clear the Cutlass throttle linkage and I've had to substitute
an aftermarket air cleaner.

>ventilation system is bad news to your engine.  The breather allows
>filtered air to enter the crankcase, whereas the PCV valve allowed the
>engine to ingest the vapors from the crankcase.  Remember, the pistons
>are moving air around in the crankcase too, and with blowby from the
>combustion process by the rings, pressure is going to build up in this
>area if not sufficiently vented.  Surefire way to find leaky seals, or
>make them leak.  

I believe that Roland Klinger is involved is some kind of scientific
experiment in Germany to determine the effect of excessive crankcase
pressure on engine seals... ;)
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:04:47 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Factory experimental engines and parts

>..I was wondering if anyone is familiar with or has seen any of the 
>experimental motors olds built but did not use, in one issue dated July 1969 
>they have a two page color layout of 7 Oldsmobile engines that never hit the 
>streets...

Some of these engines can be found on Bryceman's web-site:

http://www.442.com/hemi.html
http://www.442.com/turbo.html
http://www.442.com/dohc.html
http://www.442.com/webber.html
http://www.442.com/twinfan.html

Then Joe added:
>     I also have that issue.  If you will notice the green, single overhead 
>     cam 455 in the back row, notice that it has two Q-jet carbs on a 
>     cross-ram type of manifold.  I actually obtained one of these factory 
>     cross rams at a swap meet years ago,             ^^^

 <DROOL!> How many of these might actually have been cast?

>							and have it sitting in my 
>     basement.  The manifold will physically fit on a regular 455, but the 
>     manifold's size precludes the use of a regular distributor (neither a 
>     points-type nor an HEI will fit), so I have not yet been able to run 
>     the manifold on a car.  I assume I'll need to fabricate some sort of 
>     crank-trigger ignition system, but since these really didn't exist in 
>     1969, I'm wondering what the factory used on this application.  
>     Perhaps some sort of offset drive distributor?  I've seen these used 
>     on 6-71 supercharger installations.

This would seem to warrant a trip to the Olds museum, to see what they did
with those other exotic intake systems...

I wonder if a longer-shaft distributor would have been designed, to raise
the cap high enough to clear the intake. Can you scan a picture of this
beast for the web-page?

>     
>     The two Q-jets, by the way, mount "back-to-back", with the primaries 
>     facing the valve covers and with a special bellcrank linkage which 
>     runs between the two.  Large threaded allen-head plugs in the 
>     manifold's plenums provide access to the manifold-to-cylinder head 
>     bolts.

Like the earlier Chrysler cross-rams? Wow, I wonder if there was anything
special about the bottom end, which would enable the engine to run at an
rpm high enough to use _1500_cfm! Joe, you gotta put this on an
aluminum-rod 425 some day... :)

>     Anyone ever see this engine or intake before?  Any info on the 
>     distributor configuration used would be appreciated.

These experimental factory parts are extremely interesting to me. Who else
here has come across interesting experimental parts from Olds? And how
would such things make their way into a swap meet?
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:28:06 PDT
From: "Luis Chevere" <lchevere@hotmail.com>
Subject: Content-Type: text/plain

I have an 84 Cutlass Supreme with a V6.  I am going to put a 307 from a 
85 Cutlass.  Will their be any problems trying to put a 307 in my 84 
Cutlass.  Will I be able to use my exhaust, transmission ect.  Will 
their be any modification?  Email directly please.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:33:31 -0400
From: Dan Miller <dsm137@gti.net>
Subject: RE: '67 Cutlass suspension/performance mods

I can't answer all the questions, but if you are doing a suspension upgrade, I had a rough time finding the right springs for my '67 convertible. I found the right ones through Moog, but had to go through a phone call to their cust. service and have the guy match me up properly.
Dan.
67 yellow on yellow Cutlass Convertible.

- ----------
From: 	COUPEKING@aol.com[SMTP:COUPEKING@aol.com]
Sent: 	Sunday, October 12, 1997 7:24 PM
To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: 	'67 Cutlass suspension/performance mods

As I'll be changing front end sheetmetal on my '67 CS 2dr/ 400ci/ auto this
week, I figure now is the time to get down to the front susp upgrades I've
been wanting to 
do.
I have a stock rebuilt steering box from my '69 442 (replaced with a
quick-ratio ) and recall a post here a bit ago that this box is quicker than
what's stock. Is this a good swap and worth the effort? 
Where can I find a bigger swaybar for the front? The stock unit is a beefy
~1" item, but all this talk of nearly 2" bars has me wondering...
The front drums are history--have a set of A body discs and spindles. This
looks to be a fairly straightforward job. Any caveats/tricks before I go
installing them?
Hooray for SB42! We californians can now dispose of those godawful smog pumps
and pipes! I LOOOOVE  a clean engine bay, and now I can have one.
And finally, have a beautiful set of American Racing Tork-thrusts 15"X7". How
big a tire can I go with this body? Those wheel wells have always looked
awfully empty
to me , and now's the time to fix that. Are 245-255/60's too big? Will they
clear the front fender lips? Or should I go a bit smaller up front? Any
recommendations or 
experiences appreciated.

Peter
CoupeKing

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:31:25 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: '61 Starfire Top Question

>Just returned from the big Fall Hershey Meet.  Sat with a friend of mine
>that is trying to sell her '61 Starfire.  We had an amazing large number
>of people who talked with great knowledge about a chrome/silver border
>that ran along the sides of the convertible top, above the side windows
>and down along the rear 1/4 window to the beltline.  I thought the first
>few were nut cases, then a guy came along that was an Olds factory rep
>in '61 and had one for a demo.  He said the same thing.  Then more
>people said the same thing.  I thought I knew a lot about these cars,
>but I've never known of this stripe that they're talking about. 
>'Course, I don't think a picture exists of one of these cars with the
>top up when they were new, everthing I have has the top down, and the
>sales material I have makes no mention of this special stripe.  So does
>anyone on this list remember seeing a car with a top like this?

Oh, yes, this is how to tell an original top, as no replacements are
available with that "stripe". Actually, it's more like a colored vinyl band
that's part of the top vinyl; it's not raised, embroidered, ironed on or
anything like that, and would be *very* difficult to duplicate. It followed
the contour of the side windows, and was a couple inches wide.

The two '61 Starfires I've seen in person (Everett Horton's '61, and
Berejik's '61) have the origiinal tops, and this band. I don't know where
else I've seen this, but I don't think the color was limited to silver; I
think it was body-color, as Berejik's '61 was blue, and if I recall what I
saw that day, I believe the edge of the top was a shade of blue as well.
Everett Horton can help you out more on this one, though.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:36:19 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Concerning 350's and 455's

>Matt Cremean writes:
>>I may have said this a million times already, but I'm rebuilding my 350
>>this winter. It is a 73 model. I'm putting in a milder cam and #6 heads
>>and an Edelbrock Perf. RPM manifold, along with a new valvetrain.
>
>>But, I was also considering finding a 455, and since we'll have to pull
>>the engine out of the Cutlass anyhow, why not just get a junkyard engine
>>that's already free of it's car and build that. I know I don't want
>>anything from 73-up. I hear they suck unless you get different heads,
>>but it might come to that.
>>
>>I need help, should I stick with the 350, only 46,000+ miles, or should
>>I find a relatively good 455?
>
>This requires a two part question to you...
>
>1. How much $$$ do you have to spend? (See the FAQ for budgeting a 
>rebuild)
>2. How fast do you want to go?
>
>If you are on a limited budget, the 350 should work just fine. If you can 
>spare the cost for the 455, you get the bonus hosepower from the extra 
>cubes. You also may have to spend some bucks on bracketry (if its not 
>there) and/or suspension mods to fit the 455 (i.e. springs).
>There is very little difference in dollars to rebuild between a 350 vs 
>455, if you can spare the dollars go with the big block...

I'll second the suggestion to go with the 455. If you have the time,
however, and you'll be getting the hoist for the engine anyway, I'd
recommend another route: buy a '66-'72 Olds with a running 455 already
installed, pull the motor from that, and drop it into your Cutlass. I
suggest this for a couple reasons:

1) You can drive it right away
2) Even with the stock cam, you'll have nearly as much hp as a rebuilt 350
3) You can sell the shell for parts

I recommend this route because you say you are on a limited budget. A good
rebuild of any motor is going to cost you around $1200-$2500; an Olds with
a running 455 (or even a 425), but whose body is shot, might run you
between $200-$800. Add in minor other necessities that either swap would
warrant (new 4-row radiator, belts, hoses, exhaust), and you'll be $1000
ahead with pulling the engine from a running car. Then, if you sell your
existing 350, plus anything from the shell of the donor car, you'll be that
much further ahead.

Just be careful, if you are on a budget, that you don't tear things down
too far. I had a friend <...scene fades to suburban driveway, circa
1985...> who had a '71 Cutlass Convertible with a 350, who wanted a 455
like my SX. He didn't have much time or money, but he did have big plans.
He picked up a donor car, something like a '75 98 coupe with a huge landau
roof. I begged him to drop the good-running 455 in as-is, but he was
determined just to "go through it". He disassembled it, and as far as I
know, it sits disassembled in a basement somewhere, unless his parents have
since thrown it out, as he went off to school and the '71 never got another
motor <...cut to Bob avoiding grading in his office...>.

So, buy a car whose motor doesn't knock, _at_most_ replace the timing chain
and front-cover/oil pan gaskets, and then bolt that motor right into place
before you get "shipwright's disease" and your parents end up throwing away
the innards of a 455 in ten years...
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:31:39 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: value of a 455 block

>While I was there someone was selling a 455 and I was hoping to get some
>advice before I went and bought it.  He says it is a 1972 block.  I
>couldn't read the numbers on the front of the block next to oil filler
>because there was too much gunk on it.  I did see a large "F" on the block.

The "F" that counts is the one cast in the bellhousing area. That's where
you'll find the "F", "F1", "F2" etc... designations.

> I recall this as being a "good" casting, as well as the "G" casting on the
>heads.  The guy said they are W-30 heads.  I'm not familiar with older cars

Well, if they are "Ga" heads, where the upper-case "A" is smaller and down
a bit from the "G", then they are indeed heads from a '72 W-30; they're
also heads from a '72 Vista Cruiser or a '72 98, as all 455's used the "Ga"
heads in '72. If they're W-30 heads, they'd have the 2.07" intake valves;
I'm not sure if the regular 442 engines from that year also carried the
bigger valves.

>so I'm not sure about that.  Some numbers from the intake read 410 448 D2 B
>(it is a four barrel intake).  That's about all I could find.  Also has no
>exhaust manifolds, carb, acc. brackets and about 190K miles on it.  Bottom
>end rebuilt once, heads or top end never touched.
>
>He's asking $500 which includes delivery to my house.  Does this sound 
>like a reasonable price?

Only if delivery usually runs about $300-$400 in your area. It might be
worth that much if you could hear it run, and it included all accessories.
A bare long-block like you describe might run very well once everything is
installed, or it might not; you can't be sure, and you can't take the
seller at his word, so you have to factor in the "risk" and assume the
worst-case scenario of it needing a complete rebuild (and if in fact
everything he told you is true, it's at least due for a valve-job). In that
case, the motor might be worth $100-$250.

>Also would it be possible to use my carb and exhaoust manifolds from the
>307 I have in My '85 Cutlass with this motor?  I do have a feeling that
>using the 307 xst manifolds probably wouldn't be a good idea. Am I right on
>that?

Well, since the earlier cast-iron single-exhaust small-block and big-block
manifolds were identical, you have to determine whether your 307's are in
fact just like the earlier 350 single-exhaust manifolds. If so, then use
them. If not, then it would probably be worthwhile looking for earlier 442
manifolds.
_______________________________________________________
Dr. Robert Barry  MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu
Theology Dept, Providence College, Providence, RI 02918

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:37:08 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Factory experimental engines and parts

>..I was wondering if anyone is familiar with or has seen any of the 
>experimental motors olds built but did not use, in one issue dated July 1969 
>they have a two page color layout of 7 Oldsmobile engines that never hit the 
>streets...

Some of these engines can be found on Bryceman's web-site:

http://www.442.com/hemi.html
http://www.442.com/turbo.html
http://www.442.com/dohc.html
http://www.442.com/webber.html
http://www.442.com/twinfan.html

Then Joe added:
>     I also have that issue.  If you will notice the green, single overhead 
>     cam 455 in the back row, notice that it has two Q-jet carbs on a 
>     cross-ram type of manifold.  I actually obtained one of these factory 
>     cross rams at a swap meet years ago,             ^^^

 <DROOL!> How many of these might actually have been cast?

>							and have it sitting in my 
>     basement.  The manifold will physically fit on a regular 455, but the 
>     manifold's size precludes the use of a regular distributor (neither a 
>     points-type nor an HEI will fit), so I have not yet been able to run 
>     the manifold on a car.  I assume I'll need to fabricate some sort of 
>     crank-trigger ignition system, but since these really didn't exist in 
>     1969, I'm wondering what the factory used on this application.  
>     Perhaps some sort of offset drive distributor?  I've seen these used 
>     on 6-71 supercharger installations.

This would seem to warrant a trip to the Olds museum, to see what they did
with those other exotic intake systems...

I wonder if a longer-shaft distributor would have been designed, to raise
the cap high enough to clear the intake. Can you scan a picture of this
beast for the web-page?

>     
>     The two Q-jets, by the way, mount "back-to-back", with the primaries 
>     facing the valve covers and with a special bellcrank linkage which 
>     runs between the two.  Large threaded allen-head plugs in the 
>     manifold's plenums provide access to the manifold-to-cylinder head 
>     bolts.

Like the earlier Chrysler cross-rams? Wow, I wonder if there was anything
special about the bottom end, which would enable the engine to run at an
rpm high enough to use _1500_cfm! Joe, you gotta put this on an
aluminum-rod 425 some day... :)

>     Anyone ever see this engine or intake before?  Any info on the 
>     distributor configuration used would be appreciated.

These experimental factory parts are extremely interesting to me. Who else
here has come across interesting experimental parts from Olds? And how
would such things make their way into a swap meet?
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:31:43 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: '67 Cutlass suspension/performance mods

>I have a stock rebuilt steering box from my '69 442 (replaced with a
>quick-ratio ) and recall a post here a bit ago that this box is quicker than
>what's stock. Is this a good swap and worth the effort? 

It's likely a variable ratio box with a tighter ratio, and it's an easy
swap, so it's definitely worthwhile, especially if you don't have to
purchase anything.

>Where can I find a bigger swaybar for the front? The stock unit is a beefy
>~1" item, but all this talk of nearly 2" bars has me wondering...

Any '68-'77 A-body, '70-'81 F-body, and though I haven't verified it
myself, any '77-'85 B/C body. *Lots* of options out there for the front
bars, but the best bet is the later Trans-Ams.

>The front drums are history--have a set of A body discs and spindles. This
>looks to be a fairly straightforward job. Any caveats/tricks before I go
>installing them?

Get the frame brackets for the brake hoses, as the drum-brake ones are
different. Also purchase the hoses for the year of the brackets, as the
hex-shaped fitting might be different among years (I noticed a difference
between the '70 and '72 versions).
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #902
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