
oldsmobile-digest       Friday, October 17 1997       Volume 01 : Number 910



Re: Trans Troubles (fwd)
point dists wanted?
SOHC Olds 455
Re: new rarity rumor
Re: Any Olds guys in IL??
RE: real '72 442
Re: uPdAtEd WeB pAgE!!!!
Re: 69 W-30 for sale
Re: SOHC Olds 455
Re: Front Springs for a 65 Cutlass
Re: 69 W-30 for sale
Re: Any Olds guys in IL??
Re: motor for sale???????? Geo679
Re: 403 anyone???
Re: Transmission Trouble and Rear End
Re: uPdAtEd WeB pAgE!!!!
Re: 69 W-30 for sale
Emissions
Re: Emissions...
Subject: Re: no light ???? 
Re: Any Olds guys in IL??
Re: point dists wanted?
'66 D88, Engine?
Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
Re: Roller Rockers - Steel Tip Vs. Al 
Re: motor for sale???????
Re: Computer Command Control 350
Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
Re: Any Olds guys in IL??
Re: trans lines broke
Re: Sway Bars
Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
Message
RE:  Computer Command Control 350
Re: new rarity rumor
Re: new rarity rumor
Re: Emissions...
RE: Roller Rockers - Steel Tip Vs. Al 
Re: new rarity rumor, stuff
RE: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
Cool Olds Stuff
Re: Sway Bars
Re: Front Springs for a 65 Cutlass
"Classy looking..."
unsubscribe
WANTED: 1969 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Emissions...
Where is the best place to buy quarters 
anybody have a/c parts for a 70 supreme?
Re: 394: how similar to 303/324/371? to 330/425?
new FAQ
Re: SOHC Olds 455

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:54:55 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: Trans Troubles (fwd)

>That sound almost as bad as if Charley were to run out of cars to drive (I
>don't think that's possible though...:-).

Lets see - this Friday I have to take my daughter somewhere through rush
hour traffic, i.e. stop & go.  The old football injury knee most certainly
will NOT tolerate the other half's stick shift so.....we're haulin out the
'66.  Wow. Keep your fingers crossed the mushy 1-2 shift doesnt decide to
follow its brothers & sisters path!@##!


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:02:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: point dists wanted?

Ladies and Gents,
        I am in search of point type distributors. No specific years or casting
numbers. Will take as many as I can get my hands on.
     The General
===============================

I see the incomparable Mr. Mondello is also seeking these units.

What am I missing here?

I mean, I'm sitting on a mountain of the previously useless buggers. I just
can't throw stuff out, ya know. But, it never occured to me to acquire more of
them at say the scrap yard. I grab HEI's when I can, but for the older ones,
what's the point?

I guess I could lay hands on about 50 of them that aren't reserved for my cars,
so, are these buyers paying tons of money, or few bucks, or scrap metal price?
I can still get more. A lot more. But, what's the sudden fascination with them?
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:04:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Brown Witt" <wittchri@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: SOHC Olds 455

     negotiating position was weakened just a bit after my head spun around
     a couple of times.  It wasn't until sometime later that I ran across

Dontcha just HATE when that happens?

     the Hot Rod issue with the picture of the experimental engines.  The
     SOHC setup on that engine appears to be an add-on cam carrier which
     bolted to the stock heads in place of the valve covers (unlike the

Yep, correct.

     OW-43 setup which used unique 4-valve heads).  I wonder where _those_
     pieces are.
     Joe Padavano
================================
Right here in the REOTMuseum. I spent a long afternoon there marvelling and
caressing them back before U had a real job. Studied it up close, it was not
roped off. They cut me some slack, too, on account of I was trying to get them
a web presence...
- --
Chris  B. Witt
*the* Rocket Scientist, fleet includes '68 Toro, 442, and 442...
wittchri@pilot.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:12:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: WMACHINES@aol.com
Subject: Re: new rarity rumor

In a message dated 97-10-17 00:03:12 EDT, you write:

<< My brother says that a black dude he spoke with at the centennial claims
that
 they made about 100 *aluminum* tri-carb intakes.
 
 Same casting, different material.
 
 There's a prize to pine for. Ya just never know where ya gonna find
something
 like that.
 
 -- >>
actually Chris, the number is 45.  I have talk to Dale Smith about the 66
tripower 
cars.  He sponsored my friend Vance Brady back in 66 when he was racing for
Oldsmobile.  So if you are interest in talking to Brady, mine that he is 74
years
old now.  His memory is still as strong.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
72 442 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:12:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Any Olds guys in IL??

In a message dated 97-10-15 12:39:47 EDT, you write:

<< 
 
  >>
Man, you had alot to say...   :-)

Anyways..., yes, there are a few of out here.  Probably close to a dozen, or
more.

Chris Ruper
Rockton, IL.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:05:07 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: RE: real '72 442

That's it. OK.
>boys/gals lets rumble...can't wait to hear it...
The only thing missing here Fernando was defining the color(s) or
pronunciation of these beautiful beasts :-)


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 21:24:44 -0700
From: James Thingwold <jht@exo.com>
Subject: Re: uPdAtEd WeB pAgE!!!!

Nice page - if you'd like I'll put a link from mine to yours.


Lisa Madsen
Anaheim, CA

'64 Cutlass, '66 Toronado, '67 Delta 88 Custom, '69 Toronado, '72 Vista
Cruiser (twin hauler)

Please E-Mail me at-----:  Lisa@hotglass.com

My Web-Page-----:  http://exo.com/~jht/olds/

Subscribe To : Lisa's Classic Oldsmobile Bulletin Board Mailing List:
Glass Line's Bulletin Board: http://exo.com/~jht/wwwboard/olds/

*** NEW ***
Lisa's Oldsmobile FREE Banner Exchange
http://exo.com/~jht/olds/banners/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:43:11 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: 69 W-30 for sale

Wolfhaven1@centuryinter.net wrote:

>>>Here's the stats: 
>>>White interior, not bad, no carpet (F***ing CAT died on the back seat during winter!)

At least the cat had good taste!  I'm hoping that my last ride would be
in an Olds, too!
   
>>>******* NOTE ********
>>>I WILL NOT sell this car to some kid.

Yes, that *does* seem a little prejudicial towards teenagers, but
unfortunately it's true.  Yes, I'm still a teenager, but I'd rather have
a car look classy than all hyped up (like the purple paint and BMF
tires).  Before I started working on my Delta, I had the option to buy a
'92 Z24 coupe, with oversized tires (245/55/16), three 10" subwoofers in
the trunk, under-car fluorescent light kit, almost solid-black windows,
and breathing through twin Cherry Bombs.  This was looked good (a little
too jazzy for me), handled well, and was a rocket to drive (bad choice
of words!)...she had the 3.1 with a Tuned Port Injection kit (never seen
before).  Yes, I *liked* the car, but I didn't *love* it, like I do my
Olds.  I figured I was better off keeping the $2500 I had for a
downpayment, and pour it into my Delta...and I'm not regretting it. 
Besides, I really would like to know why that Z24 was on it's third auto
trans at only 150,000km (and it felt like it'd need a fourth within a
year!).

>>>I don't want to hear about her jacked up with a 500 watt stereo in back. She should be >>>restored and driven.  Well, driven fast, but not with godzilla tires & purple paint.

I agree...I'm doing my best to restore the '78 Delta, but I want it to
look classy;  that's why I went with the 215/70/15 tires (w/ whitewalls)
instead of the 255/60/15's that some people were suggesting to me.  Yes,
I have a great stereo in it, but no boombox...not that I'd want one (if
I want my brain blown loose, I'll take a F*rd off-roading!).  That's why
I stayed with the original dimension speakers, and hid a small amp under
the rear deck in the trunk (I like my Country *loud*)  This way it looks
great, sounds great, and left no permanent imprint on the car...

S. Dave Ward

'78 Delta 88 (350 4bbl.)
'85 Delta 88 (307 4bbl.)
'91 GMC 4x4  (305 TBI)

I must admit, it would look strange adding  "1992 Chev Z24 (3.1 V6 w/
Tuned Port Injection)" to my signature!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 00:44:03 -0500
From: "padavano.joe" <padavano.joe@Orbital.COM>
Subject: Re: SOHC Olds 455

     ...(unlike the OW-43 setup which used unique 4-valve heads).  I wonder 
     where _those_ pieces are.
     Joe Padavano
================================
Right here in the REOTMuseum....
- --
Chris  B. Witt
     
     Ya, I knew that _one_ set was there...
     
     I remember in Musclecar Review (possibly even back when they were Car 
     Review - the old memory is, well, _old_) they had an article on an 
     experimental cammer 426 Hemi which had managed to ooze it's way out of 
     Hammtrack.  I was kinda fantasizing that a DOHC 455 might have done 
     the same...
     
     I still have the issue of Hot Rod that I bought back in 71 which 
     spilled the beans on the W-43 and the sorry fact that it had been 
     canceled. I've been having fantasies about that motor ever since (see 
     how impressionable 13 year olds can be).
     
     And speaking of "my milling machine is bigger...", how about a set of 
     SOHC cam carriers to go with the cross ram.  These have _got_ to be a 
     lot easier than whittling out a DOHC 4-valve head.  That part about 
     the raised camshaft seemed to put that one a little out of reach.  ;-)
     
     Joe Padavano
     padavano.joe@orbital.com
     
     66 442
     68 W-30
     69 H/O
     70 W-30

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:42:10 -0400
From: gbro@juno.com (Glenn B Brobeck)
Subject: Re: Front Springs for a 65 Cutlass

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:45:07 -0400 (EDT) DEOVIVERE@aol.com writes:
>Hi All -
>
>I am planning on putting a set of fresh springs into a 65 Cutlass to 
>firm
>things up a little.  I'd like to put some 442 springs in it, but am 
>unsure
>where to obtain them.  Year One offers their own, apparantly 
>custom-made
>springs, but the price seems high at $140.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Tom Simmons
>
>   71 SX (for sale)
>   70 SX W-32 (will take possession when I sell the 71)
>   65 Cutlass Coupe (daily driver)
>
 Tom I have the number of the original manufacturer who made them for
Lansing in 1965.  They have all the iriginal specs.  The price was
somwhere around $90.00. The only problem is that the number is at my
office and i'll have to get it to you.  If your looking for a nice stance
"not radical" order the springs off of a 65 cutlass station wagon with
air conditioning.  I used them on my 65 442 and it looks great.


BRO
GBRO@juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:52:46 -0400
From: Dave Ward <ward@ptbo.igs.net>
Subject: Re: 69 W-30 for sale

Wolfhaven1@centuryinter.net wrote:


>>>I don't want to hear about her...

>>>jacked up
No...

>>>with a 500 watt stereo in back
No...

>>>driven fast
Hell yeah!

S. Dave Ward

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:03:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Heiser5@aol.com
Subject: Re: Any Olds guys in IL??

You betcha... up in Ft. Sheridan, IL... 71 Olds Cutlass S.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:33:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: AllNiteLng@aol.com
Subject: Re: motor for sale???????? Geo679

         Would you be interested in an '80 Diesel? 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 02:56:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mikeytvb@aol.com
Subject: Re: 403 anyone???

73 350 rocket
i have a rocket 350 in my posession and i wanted to get rid of it.  i live in
florida.  i have the block, crank, main caps, cam, and a few other things for
it.  i was going to junk it, but there's too much there to junk.  it was
running before i decided to rebuild it.  after i got it apart i found a 403
for $300 in a car.  i bought the whole car and took the engine and a couple
other things out of the car.  i put the engine in my 73 cutlass.  after a
month i decided to change the intake manifold.  then i recently decided to
put the 350 heads on it.  i can almost give you the motor, if you want it.
 all you have to do is tell me where to ship it to and pay the shipping
charges.

mikey tvb@aol.com
73 cutlass w/403

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 05:15:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transmission Trouble and Rear End

In a message dated 97-10-16 19:48:29 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Airplane gears (aka 2.41:1).  I liked what that guy with the 85 called
 them earlier, Bonneville gears ;-) and interestingly enough, my car _will_
 do upwards of 150 (probably closer to 200) with them).  I think that it
 will definitely be worth it though, as it is now, it's tough to even
 power-brake my car with those 2.41:1's, even with the 350 4bb. under the
 hood.  I'm guessing that if I dragged it now, I would find that I get poor
 numbers, but high trap speeds... this should fix that!
 
 The gears will just have to remain non-posi until I can find a really
 cheap posi unit somewhere... as I'll already have the gears, finding one
 should be that much easier.
 
 Peace,
 Clayton Pierce, >>

Hmmm...  you still shouldn't have too much problem on the bottom end (taking
off) with the 350 (lots of torque...).  With mine in the car, I had to baby
the thing until like 20 mph, or better before I could WOT it.  Otherwise,
it'd just turn the tires, and that's with a set of 2.29's in it.  You may
want to consider using air bags on the rear, and spending money elsewhere
(besides on a posi).  There are several list members here who "swear by
them".  I'll be looking to get a set of them once my 455 is installed into
the car (assembling engine right now...).

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:08:08 -0500
From: Matt Cremean <ccremean@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Re: uPdAtEd WeB pAgE!!!!

James Thingwold wrote:
> 
> Nice page - if you'd like I'll put a link from mine to yours.
> 

As I will to yours....


I think I'll start an all Olds related links area.


- -- 
**********************************
Matt Cremean
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
CreamerSoftİ Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/5988/creamersoft.html
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3973/73olds.html
**********************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:36:36 -0400
From: "Adcock, Jason K." <jadcock@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: 69 W-30 for sale

Dave Ward wrote:

> unfortunately it's true.  Yes, I'm still a teenager, but I'd rather have
> a car look classy than all hyped up (like the purple paint and BMF
> tires).

Yes, agreed!  Here at Virginia Tech there are so many "fake" cars that it's
not even funny.  In particular, there's a white Honda Accord, probably 94
or later, with stock hub caps, stock motor, tinted black windows, a 5"
chrome exhaust tip and PIAA driving lights!  The thing looks so stupid.  It
was funny, one day, it was gettin jumped by a Cougar because the idiot left
his PIAA's on all day!

There are actually a lot of nice Oldses here at Tech.  There is a 69 442
Convert that looks real good.  I saw a 71 442 Convert the other day. 
There's an old Cutlass S, Greg's Vista Cruiser and my Cutlass Supreme
Calais. 
_______________________________

Jason K. Adcock
jadcock@vt.edu
OCA #028044

http://www.erols.com/adcockjk
1984 Cutlass Supreme Calais
1992 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:39:58 -0700
From: Ingmar Ott <iao2@cdc.gov>
Subject: Emissions

California seems to be s special case when it comes to emissions test,
and I don't know how to get around it there.  In Georgia, and probably
some other states as well, emission tests are mostly done near big
cities, like Atlanta.  Counties a bit away from there are not tested. 
So registering a car in a non-tested county is the easiest way to
circumvent emissions testing.  (Helps to have a friend or family live in
the county, so you actually have an address there).  Another option is a
bit more involved.  If you can get hold of a factory Diesel, they are
expempt from emissions.  Nobody cares what engine is really in it.  So
if you find yourself a nice body with a VIN identifying it as a diesel,
you can build it up any way you like.  Don't know if that helps you any
though.
Ingmar

------------------------------

Date: 16 Oct 1997 22:13:08 PST
From: mjones@gleep.com
Subject: Re: Emissions...

Erik, What you said about engine swaps in California is true.  However I
don't know if you knew about swapping engines that are in the same
engine family.  I read about this in the April '96 Car Craft
magazine, where they were gonna build a 406 ch*vy to replace a worn out
350/4V of the same origin..

To quote the magazine:  California's _Smog Check_ manual says that all
engines of a similair "engine family" are interchangable.  An "engine
family" is defined as a group of engines that use the same engine block
but vary the bore/stroke to achieve different displacment.  The manual
specifically states (unfortunately) the small-block Ch*vy as an example:
       "The small-block Ch*vrol*t engine was built over several years
and is available in 262, 265, 267, 283, 302, 305, 327, 350, and 400 ci
displacments.  If the emission devices are transferred from the original
engine, any of these can be considered a replacment engine."

The article goes on to describe how the engine's builder decided on a
400 cid motor, the biggest available, and how he was able to run a 4
barrel carb on the 400 motor (which was available with 2V carbs in the
early years) because that is what originally came on the 350.  He
wouldn't ahve to go to a referee station because the installation is not
considered an engine swap.  He would have to use all his stock emissions
equipment though.

This is how I believe I can get away with the 455 in place of my 350 in
my '78 Delta 88.  The only way to tell the engines apart is to either
meanure the intake or look at the casting numbers, right?  Do you think
they would bother if it had all the original emissions equipment on it
and in working form?  I know they can be strict but they are not that
picky.

Mike Jones
Livermore, Ca
'78 Delta 88 2dr (350/4V)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:02:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: BigEJ@aol.com
Subject: Subject: Re: no light ???? 

>OK, this brings up something puzzling to me. I'm trying to get all the
l>ights in my SX working again, and when I was looking up the bulbs for the
>interior lights, the bulbs for the console storage compartment and the rear
>light by the passenger's feet said "automatic only". Might it be that Olds
>didn't install these courtesy lights in the MT applications? Does anyone
>here have lights on their 4-speed console?

Hi all:
   The only year I can speak with some assurance about is 1967, but I think
all the years that used the same console were the same.

   There were no lights in manual transmission consoles in 1967 from the
factory,  I remember this distinctly because when these cars were new we had
a couple of memorable customer discussions about the fact that their cars
didn't have courtesy or console glove compartment lights!   It came as a
suprise to us, after explaining to the first customer that none of the cars
had lites in the console, to jump into an automatic car and have everything
(trans indicator, glove compartment and rear courtesy light) come on!

   The factory had a perfectly reasonable explanition, which I can't
remember.  I think it had to do with the fact that they felt it necessary to
light the trans indicator, so since they had to run a harness.....   The
manual trans didn't need any lights so.....

    One must remember that in those days the customer was not as critical to
GM as he is now!   Their market share was over 50% and their biggest worry
was not to go over 60% because they were sure the government would break
Ch*vy away!  If the customer liked it... good!   If not.... too bad!  

Elephant Engine Ernie

67 442
50  88 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:15:12 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Any Olds guys in IL??

Up by Rockford

77 Olds Cutlass 350 4bbl
75 Olds 98 Regency 455 4bbl
78 Olds Delta 88 Royale 350 4bbl

- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:16:39 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: point dists wanted?

How about a 1970 Buick 350 Distributer. Only has 43,000ish miles on 
it. Previous owner was a mechanic.


- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:28:19 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: '66 D88, Engine?

I have a friend who wants to get rid of a '66 D88 that he hasn't driven in a year
or so.  I haven't seen the car, but he says there's some body damage (hit a van,
the van lost) but it still runs and drives, $100.  He has no idea what engine is
in it.  I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what engine I'm likely to
find in this thing?  The FAQ says 400, 425, 330 were available as engines that
year.  Is it likely to have the 39 or 45 degree cam bank angle, and which
lifters?

If it's still the original engine, and if it's a 425, I'll probably be pulling
the engine to use for myself, rest of the car is up for grabs.  If not, the car
will be available for someone else to buy, I'll post details after I see it.

Thanks!
- --
Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                          '84 Hurst/Olds
http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                         '78 Cutlass Supreme
Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.              '78 Chev 1/2ton (Olds 350)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:33:23 -0400
From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
Subject: Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30

At 04:50 PM 10/16/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Well this time I borowed a timing light and found that my timing mark on
>the balancer was on the passenger side of the water pump.  This looked
>like my timing was about 30 degrees advanced at Idle with the vacuum
>disconnected.  My first thought was that the balancer had come apart and
>the timing mark had moved, so I pulled the number 1 plug, found top dead
>center and the timing mark lined up with 0 degrees on the timng chain
>cover.

>This can't be right.  I've never seen a car that would run this far
>advanced.  I tried setting the timing closer to 12 degrees BTDC but it
>would not run without turning the slow idle screw all the way in.  

>All this makes me belive that the cam was installed 1 tooth advanced. 

>	Happy Oldsmobiling
>
>	mike

Mike,
I once had the same problem. It was caused by the distributor being
installed on the cam one tooth advanced.

Ray
Alexandria, VA
'70 Cutlass Conv.
'70 442 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:42:27 -0500
From: "Mike Krumwiede MIS Technician" <krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30

I also had this problem, my timing chain was desintagrating, causing 
it to skip, when was the last time it was changed?

> At 04:50 PM 10/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Well this time I borowed a timing light and found that my timing mark on
> >the balancer was on the passenger side of the water pump.  This looked
> >like my timing was about 30 degrees advanced at Idle with the vacuum
> >disconnected.  My first thought was that the balancer had come apart and
> >the timing mark had moved, so I pulled the number 1 plug, found top dead
> >center and the timing mark lined up with 0 degrees on the timng chain
> >cover.
> 
> >This can't be right.  I've never seen a car that would run this far
> >advanced.  I tried setting the timing closer to 12 degrees BTDC but it
> >would not run without turning the slow idle screw all the way in.  
> 
> >All this makes me belive that the cam was installed 1 tooth advanced. 
> 
> >	Happy Oldsmobiling
> >
> >	mike
> 
> Mike,
> I once had the same problem. It was caused by the distributor being
> installed on the cam one tooth advanced.
> 
> Ray
> Alexandria, VA
> '70 Cutlass Conv.
> '70 442 Conv.
> 

- -------------------------------------------------------
Mike Krumwiede - MIS Technician
Highland Community College
Phone (815) 235-6121
Mailto:Krumwiede@mis.highland.cc.il.us
- -------------------------------------------------------
"Every man dies...not every man really gets a chance to live"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:49:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Markintime@aol.com
Subject: Re: Roller Rockers - Steel Tip Vs. Al 

Hey Oldsnut,
The advantage in roller tipped rocker arms is the reduction or elimination of
side loading on the valve stem which contributes to reduced valve guide wear.
In terms of reducing friction, the greatest gains can be realized by
utilizing a roller cam and roller lifters.

Mark Berube
Loganville, GA.
67' 442

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:01:03 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: motor for sale???????

Would you be interested in an '80 Diesel? 
- -----------
If you are parting out the motor, I'll take the oil filter adaptor.
Reply
to me privately.
- -- 
David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:55:39 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Green" <acg@dlogics.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Command Control 350

>>I have an 85 Cutlass with a Rocket 350 (77 to be specific) with 
>>all the CCC from the 307.  It runs and starts fine, gets 18-19
>>mpg city/highway mileage, so no real problems, but when I am 
>>passing, the car really is not thrilled about revving up in 2nd 
>>gear much past 70 mph.
[...]
>Hmmm.... thinking about it.... I'd bet the secondaries aren't 
>putting out enough fuel (too small of a needle).
[...]
>Any other people care to take a guess at it?.....

Yup. These symptoms might indicate a partially clogged catalytic
convertor. I'd be curious to see if manifold vacuum plummets as
soon as the throttle is opened slightly, or if the dashboard VENT
setting reverts to heater/defroster outlets at highway speeds due
to loss of system vacuum caused by excessive backpressure.

Andrew C. Green                   (312) 853-8331
Datalogics, Inc.
101 N. Wacker Drive, Ste. 1800    Internet: acg@dlogics.com
Chicago, IL  60606-7301           FAX: (312) 853-8282

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:12:27 -0500
From: "babbott@pdnt.com" <babbott@pdnt.com>
Subject: Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30

If the advance springs are gone or someone has installed light springs in
your dist. you will have 30+- degrees of timing. I run my dist. this way on
purpose....more advance quicker in the curve.
                                             Eric Phillips ,   Tuscola ILL

- ----------
> From: Ray Moriarty <rmoriarty@blairinc.com>
> To: oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
> Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 9:33 AM
> 
> At 04:50 PM 10/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Well this time I borowed a timing light and found that my timing mark on
> >the balancer was on the passenger side of the water pump.  This looked
> >like my timing was about 30 degrees advanced at Idle with the vacuum
> >disconnected.  My first thought was that the balancer had come apart and
> >the timing mark had moved, so I pulled the number 1 plug, found top dead
> >center and the timing mark lined up with 0 degrees on the timng chain
> >cover.
> 
> >This can't be right.  I've never seen a car that would run this far
> >advanced.  I tried setting the timing closer to 12 degrees BTDC but it
> >would not run without turning the slow idle screw all the way in.  
> 
> >All this makes me belive that the cam was installed 1 tooth advanced. 
> 
> >	Happy Oldsmobiling
> >
> >	mike
> 
> Mike,
> I once had the same problem. It was caused by the distributor being
> installed on the cam one tooth advanced.
> 
> Ray
> Alexandria, VA
> '70 Cutlass Conv.
> '70 442 Conv.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:49:27 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Any Olds guys in IL??

I have the following people on my "chicago olds list". It's really
larger than that, so lets rename it the "greater illinois list". Sorry I
didn't save earlier Illinois posters' info - could you send it to me
privately. Please include your work and/or home phone and location.
Please correct any information below - I know it's a little old.

I haven't included phone numbers a city info here for privacy, but I do
have that information, and will only send it to everyone on the Chicago
list that I am compiling.

Karl Aune
Michael Brady   drolds19@starnetinc.com
David Brown     dbrown@mcis.bsd.uchicago.edu
Brett Chaveriat brett@actel.com
Jeff Easton     jeffrey.easton@add.ssw.abbott.com
Ed Ekstrom      eekstrom@coris.com
Andy Green      acg@dlogics.com 
Rick  Kromeich  rickk@ecg.csg.mot.com
Mike Krumwiede
Matt Mayer      MMayer@InterAccess.Com
Chris Ruper     CRuper1@aol.com
Henry Schneider
Chris Smetana   chris_r._smetana@dadc.com
Don Thomas      thomasolds@aol.com
David Wilk      dww@lb.com
                David1756@aol.com
Jeff Zeilmann   jzeilman@stlouis.cp.lucent.com

- -- 
David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:07:09 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: trans lines broke

>I seem to have sprung a leak in my trainy lines when I was doing my 
>engine swapout in my 77 cutlass, anyone know a quick fix for this or 
>do I have to "persuede" them in and out of my engine.

Well, you could cut the leaking section out with a tubing cutter, flare
both ends, and join them with a coupling. Or use a compression-fitting to
join them without flaring. Or, use a length of rubber hose with two
hose-clamps, as long as it's not touching the exhaust.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:05:11 -0400
From: Robert Barry <rbarry@sequent1.providence.edu>
Subject: Re: Sway Bars

>>Most places sell sway bars bigger for the front than the rear.
>>
>>A couple people posted that they used larger bars on the rear than the
front.
>>
>>Any opinions on when to use which setup???
>
>Larger rear sway bars generally result in oversteer, which results in
>a very dangerous situation, especially on the street.  It requires
>a good bit of driver correction... in extreme situations it requires
>turning the wheels in the opposite direction of the turn  (picture
>Sprint cars on a dirt oval).  Even in cases where the rear bar
>is the same diameter as the front,  a poorly balanced car 
>will most likely result.   This isn't fun to drive,  in normal cornering the
>front wanders and can be loose feeling.      

When the geometry of the front and rear bars is identical, then a larger
rear bar will cause oversteer. Usually, however, the geometry of the rear
bars is significantly different from the front, so you can't compare the
front and rear bars by size (just as you can't compare the front and rear
spring-rates, due to the different position of the springs in the
suspension front and rear). The rear bar is bolted to the lower
control-arm, and thus has a much longer lever-arm working against it (the
whole rear control arm, from its front pivot to the center axis of the rear
bar) than the front lever arm (which is that part of the sway bar that goes
back from the bushings to the end link), so you'll need a thicker bar
(generally 1.5") to get similar roll-resistance to the front bar; thus,
even with a 1.25" front bar, the front would still have more roll
resistance than the rear with a 1.5" bar.

>I recommend calling Herb Adams if you are considering new sway bars.
>He has done a lot of research with RWD GM's (almost exclusively).
>Ask the tech support how to match what you have.

Exactly; the R&D on this is time-consuming, and that's what you're paying
for (it doesn't cost $120 just to bend a length of spring steel into a
sway-bar).

BTW, I think Herb Adams sells a 1.5" bar for the rear of most RWD GM cars.

>Generally, before you add a rear sway bar, you want to swap the
>stock front bar for a slightly larger sway bar.
>
>In any case, a larger rear bar doesn't result in better handling,
>99% or the time it results in a poor handling car that might not show just
>how poorly it handles until its too late.

Well, GM designed a *lot* of understeer into its suspensions; you'd need a
huge rear bar, plus a beefy front bar, to approach anything like neutral
handling, never mind oversteer.

In addition, a larger front bar will almost always improve handling, due to
it keeping more of the tire patch in contact with the road. Though it
theoretically will make the front stiffer, and thus understeer more,
usually it just takes out the excessive roll that puts the tires on the
sidewall with that bad front-end geometry, so the car will understeer
*less* with a slightly-stiffer-than-stock front bar. Witht he improved
front-end geometry from a taller spindle, however, a stiffer bar might in
fact cause more understeer, rather than less.
__________________________________________________________
Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

1969 Toronado		 455/TH425
     See it at http://www.execpc.com/~gkalkhof/drbob69.htm
1970 Cutlass Supreme SX	 455/TH400
1978 Electra Limited	 409/TH400

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:11:23 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30

When you put cylinder #1 at TDC, check to see that the rotor is pointing
directly at the terminal on the cap corresponding to cyl #1.  If it's not,
either the distributor is off a tooth or your cam is?

- --
Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                          '84 Hurst/Olds
http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                         '78 Cutlass Supreme
Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.              '78 Chev 1/2ton (Olds 350)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:23:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: GPMTRADER@aol.com
Subject: Message

How do I place a message on your bulletin board?

How do I get off your bulletic board?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:27:11 -0500
From: Thomas Martin <Thomas_Martin@css.mot.com>
Subject: RE:  Computer Command Control 350

>which secondary metering rods are you using, did you transfer them from
>the original carburetor?  The stock 307 ones provide a relatively lean
>WOT.  Also, is the air valve hanging due to a misalignment of the blades
>or is it all just due to reduced spring tension?  It would be great to
>capture some oxygen sensor readings at high RPM under load.

I am using my 1980 Turbo Trans AM's "DX" rods, they are the best I have
EVER found.  They are near needle pricks at the tip, the top has a very
aggressive slope.  This is for the turbo V8, to make sure there is
always enough fuel.  I am also using a "T" hanger, I have some others,
but my 307 came with a "I".  FYI, the 1986 262 V6 4BBL "4.3L" Ch@vy uses
the "A" hanger, factory, that is the best there is in hangers.   

The air valve seemed to loosen due to the lock screw coming loose.  Must
have been a factory goof, My dad who owned the car from new would have
never messed with it, as he has NEVER used the 4BBLS!!!!  I asked him
and he had the think about it, and he never ever floored it!!  The
original 307 got 26 mpg highway at 187,500 miles!  Can anyone describe
the tension on a stock 307 carb?  I would appreciate it!

It is a VERY straightforward swap.  The only things to be prepared for
is if you have the stock tubular steel manifolds popular on the G-Body,
get some 1980 and up pass side manifolds from any Olds powered car
(diesel included!) that has the O2 sensor provision, and any 1975 BB or
SB drivers manifold from any Cutlass or B-Body, as long as you don't get
a 75-76 big car manifold.  Seems you need to get one from 1.  A
Catalytic converter car, and 2.  Has O2 sensor provision.  My manifolds
are from an 80-81 260 with CCC.  I did not use the EFE valve, and the
pipe fit fine.  I used the stock 307 starter, I would recommend
replacing the stock battery cables, as the 307 cables are WIMPY!  I used
all the 307 accessories, A/C, I did not reinstall the A.I.R. pump, as I
hate the noise, and it makes the engine compartment much cleaner.  I
would recommend ensure you have an intake manifold with 3 positions to
mount temp sensors in the water crossover in the front of the intake,
else you will have to sacrifice the HOT light or some emissions control,
and that would require an additional length of wire, as the stock wire
won't reach.  Solution, get an aluminum intake off an 81-84 307.  Has
the bigger Olds ports, and all CCC mountings.  I would not recommend a
high po chip right away.  Make it run good without, it is not NEEDED,
can be added, but with 2.14 gears like most, WHY?  I have not
experimented with one yet, planning on programming my own.  

I want to advance the cam, but that will be in the spring.  How can I do
it on an Olds?  Timing chain sets the only way?

Anyone got a cam and crank gear handy?  How many teeth are on it?  Just
wondering.  If it is close, advance one tooth!


Thomas Martin
85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:00:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: new rarity rumor

In a message dated 97-10-17 00:03:12 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Speaking of rare parts, factory experimental stuff...
 
 My brother says that a black dude he spoke with at the centennial claims
that
 they made about 100 *aluminum* tri-carb intakes.
 
 Same casting, different material.
 
 There's a prize to pine for. Ya just never know where ya gonna find
something
 like that.
 
 --
 Chris  B. Witt >>

Damnit!!!  Correction....!  Tri-carb.! Tri-carb...!  I for some reason had
dual quad on the mind (from that tread going around here also).  I meant that
having a tri-power with an ALUMINUM manifold would be a nice thing to "show
off".

Chris Ruper
(in a haze 'cause it's Friday, nice out, and I'm still at work... ughhh...).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:01:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRuper1@aol.com
Subject: Re: new rarity rumor

In a message dated 97-10-17 00:03:12 EDT, you write:

<< 
 Speaking of rare parts, factory experimental stuff...
 
 My brother says that a black dude he spoke with at the centennial claims
that
 they made about 100 *aluminum* tri-carb intakes.
 
 Same casting, different material.
 
 There's a prize to pine for. Ya just never know where ya gonna find
something
 like that.
 
 --
 Chris  B. Witt >>

That'd be a nice addition to a project.  It'd be nice to have someone make a
"find" like this, and maybe even find a stash of them somewhere.  That'd look
just as cool as a nicely set-up tri-power manifold that's all nice and clean.
 Especially if it's something Olds actually made (and would then be really
rare).  Imagine the ability to tell somebody... "yep, I got this dual quad
manifold that Olds made... one of very few...".

Chris Ruper

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:24:17 -0400
From: "Charles Sullivan" <temair@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Emissions...

>Heres something I've been pondering...I know that everyone live in
>diffrent states, and some of you lucky bumbs don't have to worry about
>emissions...I wish I were you! I live in Maryland...heres the question,
>I heard that I could possibly get by emissions if I put in an older
>block, because I will be judged by the year of my engine, not my car...I
>SEVERELY doubt this to be true...it would be nice though...and comments?

While not a direct answer to your question, you might find this bit of
information interesting anyway.

I live in Maryland too and have a 1972 Cutlass.  A couple of months ago I
took it to the the emissions testing center in Gaithersburg just for kicks,
since cars before 1976 are grandfathered.  I had spent a bunch of time
fixing things up and wanted to see how I was doing.  Anyway, it threw them
for a bit of a loop -- they weren't used to people coming in voluntarily,
and initially I was told the car couldn't be tested.

I used my most powerful techniques of persuasion however, stamping and
crying, and without much of a problem the manager on duty came out and OKed
it.  Then there was a problem entering the car into the computer program
running the testing machinery -- it balked at the year of the car being
before 1976. With a group of technicians huddled around the terminal this
was solved or bypassed and the car was given the tailpipe test.

It was explained to me that since the car was out of the standard testing
range there would be no pass or fail notations on the printout, just the raw
numbers which was fine with me.  The engine is a 2bbl 350 with 46,000 miles,
and these were the numbers:

Hydrocarbons: 204 ppm, State standard 500 ppm
Carbon Monoxide: 0.00 pct, State standard 6.00 pct
Oxides of Nitrogen: n/a, n/a
Carbon Dioxide: 14.5 pct, State standard 6.0 pct

Since the car was outside of the years normally tested I'm not sure where
those 'standards' came from, but for whatever it's worth.  I was thinking
about maybe putting a plant in the tailpipe to soak up some of that extra
carbon dioxide and having it tested again.  Anyway, maybe an older engine
could be feasible for you given the right tinkering.

In Maryland there is also a spending cap in trying to comply with the
emission standards -- if you fail I believe you get retested one or two more
times, and if you can produce receipts showing you've put a couple of
hundred dollars into emission-related repairs they will write you a waiver.
I'm not sure how this would work in practice, though.

Good luck with your project!

Charles Sullivan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:52:26 -0500
From: Lucas Frick <lfrick@fibersystems.com>
Subject: RE: Roller Rockers - Steel Tip Vs. Al 

	Went and bought the full setup from Dave Smith Engineering last
night at a better price than I could have from Summit or Jegs.  Karen
REALLY knows her olds stuff - tested her a little at first until it was
apparent she knew more than I did.  Tried to get a discount because I
was on the list but it didnt work.  Cant wait to get it all set up.  The
kit includes Crane roller rockers, studs, guideplates and hardened
pushrods.  Wife said this is my Christmas present - dang.  If you are
having a bad day it always helps to buy some olds parts.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:59:59 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: new rarity rumor, stuff

actually Chris, the number is 45.  I have talk to Dale Smith about the
66
tripower cars.  He sponsored my friend Vance Brady back in 66 when he
was racing for Oldsmobile.  So if you are interest in talking to Brady,
mine that he is 74 years old now.  His memory is still as strong.

W MACHINES (Mark Prince)
- -----------

Man, it would be great to get some of those guys on this list!
- --
Oil plug: 1/2" square plug - ooops, NOW I remember Karl mentioning the
that. I guess there was a variation.
- -- 
Dave Smith: They offer some nice cam kits, among other things.
- --
Points dists: I think JM has cooked up some pointless (ha) conversion.
Maybe bury Dick Miller with them? Gee, I think I've seen that ""news
flash"" too many times.
- --
'78 Delta: Shot Myself in the Foot: Check the vacuum breaks. See if it
is runnning rich - some part of choke, hot air, or cold enrichment
system is not working right.
- --
394: how similar to 303/324/371? to 330/425? That would be nice FAQ
material.
- --
Re: Transmission Trouble and Rear End: Air bags: a worthwhile
investment. I'm starting to swear by them. My radiator is down otherwise
I would have more to report on the Delta's bag conversion. BTW, a big
thanks to whoever posted the idea about using an old bicycle innner tube
to test for heater core leaks! I adapted one to the radiator to check
for leaks after doing some soldering. Much better than guessing. Now I
know when I've got every leak, and what needs to be repaired, and what
doesn't.
- --
David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:57:08 -0400
From: "Proietto, Fernando [Ontario]" <Fernando.Proietto@ec.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30

Actually, just an observation. If the timing is somewhat advanced, then
the rotor wouldn't be pointing right at the terminal but just in front
of it. Although, if you were setting it up from scratch, then have the
rotor point to the terminal then advance as you needed.

Fernando Proietto
Systems Analyst - Informatics

Environment Canada
Ontario Region - Monitoring & Systems Branch
4905 Dufferin St. 
Downsview, Ontario
M3H 5T4

> ----------
> From: 	Tom Lentz[SMTP:tlentz@ior.com]
> Sent: 	Friday, October 17, 1997 12:11 PM
> To: 	oldsmobile@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: 	Re: Way far advanced timing on '70 W-30
> 
> When you put cylinder #1 at TDC, check to see that the rotor is
> pointing
> directly at the terminal on the cap corresponding to cyl #1.  If it's
> not,
> either the distributor is off a tooth or your cam is?
> 
> --
> Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                          '84 Hurst/Olds
> http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                         '78 Cutlass Supreme
> Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.              '78 Chev 1/2ton
> (Olds 350)
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:32:17 -0400
From: Tony Molinaro <AMOLINARO@mbakercorp.com>
Subject: Cool Olds Stuff

I found a birthday card and a muscle car calender with 69 442 silver/ with
black stripes. The 442 is Miss November. There are other nice cars the
rest of the year.

I just happen to have a silver and black 69 442. Needless to say both
items are displayed proudly on my desk at work.

The card and calender are produced by 

Gibson Greetings Inc
Cincinnati,  Ohio 45237

the card has several numbers as follows:

375 BM715-0247
16815-001 E-13
36107

The Calender is as follows
"Muscle Cars Supercharged for 1998"
1049Z80093
CA644

If any lives in the Pittsburgh area you can pick this stuff up at Giant Eagle.

Tony Molinaro
amolinaro@mbakercorp.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:36:50 -0700
From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Subject: Re: Sway Bars

[SNIP]

>In addition, a larger front bar will almost always improve handling, due to
>it keeping more of the tire patch in contact with the road. Though it
>theoretically will make the front stiffer, and thus understeer more,
>usually it just takes out the excessive roll that puts the tires on the
>sidewall with that bad front-end geometry, so the car will understeer
>*less* with a slightly-stiffer-than-stock front bar. Witht he improved
>front-end geometry from a taller spindle, however, a stiffer bar might in
>fact cause more understeer, rather than less.
>__________________________________________________________
>Bob Barry  	     MailTo:RBarry@Sequent1.Providence.Edu

Interesting point...

My friend's M*libu (1964) has a set of trick spindles. The company said to
NOT use a rear sway bar on his car! He is happy with the handling (up to
about 130mph, but the new rear wing should help that...)




*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:39:29 -0700
From: Dan Lacey <lacey@dsea.com>
Subject: Re: Front Springs for a 65 Cutlass

>Hi All -
>
>I am planning on putting a set of fresh springs into a 65 Cutlass to firm
>things up a little.  I'd like to put some 442 springs in it, but am unsure
>where to obtain them.  Year One offers their own, apparantly custom-made
>springs, but the price seems high at $140.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Tom Simmons
>
>   71 SX (for sale)
>   70 SX W-32 (will take possession when I sell the 71)
>   65 Cutlass Coupe (daily driver)

TRW makes springs for all these cars... MOOG should have a set of
progressive springs that keep the original ride height, but are stiffer the
farther they are compressed.




*************************************************************************
* THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY  *       Dan Lacey ( lacey@dsea.com )        *
*                           *       Dainippon Screen Eng. of America    *
* LEFT BLANK                *       3700 W. Segerstrom Ave.             *
*                           *       Santa Ana, CA. 92704                *
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:52:54 PDT
From: "John Stolarski" <oldscs350@hotmail.com>
Subject: "Classy looking..."

Dave Ward wrote:
 unfortunately it's true.  Yes, I'm still a teenager, but I'd rather 
have a car look classy than all hyped up (like the purple paint and BMF 
tires).

- - I agree, a car should look classy, and it can still look like a 
doorslammer
...I've left my Cutlass stock except for some paint on the rear and the 
brakes...Its Jet black, straight metal hardtop with red pin stripes so I 
painted the calipers and drums red looks good through the wheels, and 
the rear black w/ a red differential plate, but the back is sitting a 
little lower as years go by...

I actually have seen a guy around here who lowered a 86 Cutlass, tinted 
the windows completely black, painted it a pale purple and put a white 
vinal top on it...it has a huge stereo, white fuzzy seats and steering 
wheel and the lights Jason was talking about...plus it has Ch*vy 
mags...the horror...I cringe whenever I see it...

John




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:05:42 -0500
From: John Schmich <schmich@azstarnet.com>
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:16:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: GPMTRADER@aol.com
Subject: WANTED: 1969 Olds 4-4-2

WANTED:  1969 Olds 4-4-2, Trophy Blue or Tahitian Mist, White convertible or
Antique Parchment Hardtop, Antique Parchment interior, PS, PB, auto with
cruise control, buckets, console, A/C, AM/FM stereo, SSII wheels, Class 2
condition (sorry...no project cars);  "finder's fee".  gmptrader@aol.com.

WANTED:  Complete Cruise Control to retrofit if above car does not have
cruise control.

Thanks to anyone for their help!  gpmtrader@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:09:17 -0700
From: Tom Lentz <tlentz@ior.com>
Subject: Re: Emissions...

Charles Sullivan wrote:

> Carbon Dioxide: 14.5 pct, State standard 6.0 pct
>
> Since the car was outside of the years normally tested I'm not sure where
> those 'standards' came from, but for whatever it's worth.  I was thinking
> about maybe putting a plant in the tailpipe to soak up some of that extra
> carbon dioxide and having it tested again.  Anyway, maybe an older engine
> could be feasible for you given the right tinkering.

 Don't bother, that CO2 standard is a *minimum* requirement, not a maximum.
It's there to ensure that they're actually testing exhaust and it hasn't been
diluted with fresh air by an air pump, hole in the muffler, etc. put there to
lower the other readings.  You would have passed just fine.

A plant in your exhaust?  Shhhhh!  Don't give the EPA any more bright ideas, if
they hear you it'll be a law soon.

- --
Tom Lentz, tlentz@ior.com                          '84 Hurst/Olds
http://www.ior.com/~tlentz                         '78 Cutlass Supreme
Network Admin, CPM Corp, Spokane, WA.              '78 Chev 1/2ton (Olds 350)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:43:49 -0500
From: "babbott@pdnt.com" <babbott@pdnt.com>
Subject: Where is the best place to buy quarters 

I am in need of rear quarters for my 70 cutlass supreme, who has the
highest quality?
Also, who makes the best repo OAI hood? Glastek in IL makes a darn nice one
but it 
is not one that they regularly build, therefore it is quite costly. I have
also been kicking around the idea of a cowl hood instead, Glastek will
build one for me for around $600

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:47:34 -0500
From: "babbott@pdnt.com" <babbott@pdnt.com>
Subject: anybody have a/c parts for a 70 supreme?

I also have to have a scematic of the wiring too

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:50:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott R Clark <mickeyd@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: 394: how similar to 303/324/371? to 330/425?

> 1) Are the motor-mounts and bellhousing patterns for the '49-'63
> 303/324/371/394's all identical, and thus able to be bolted in directly in
> place of a '64 394, or was there a running change along the way?

	Hmmm.  This is an interesting question.  As far as I know, the
303-394 motors share the same bellhousing bolt pattern, and it is
different from the later pattern.  As for motor mounts, I think (stress
the think here) that they are the same.  So, in theory, you could use any
394 or 371 in that car (thoes are by far the most common motors in that
family, and the easiest to find). 



> 2) Is the bellhousing of a '64 394 different from the later B-O-P
> bellhousing found on the small- and big-block Oldses? I'm assuming the
> motor-mount bosses are different.

	The motor mounts are completly different.  The early Olds motors
use a single front engine mount that bolts to the timing cover/water pump
housing, and then to the K member.  In back, the motor shares two mounts
with the transmission, that are bolted to the tranny crossmemeber.  The
engine/transmission mounting points form a diamond or maybe rhombus shape,
with one rear trans mount, two middle engine/trans mounts, and one front
engine mount.     

> 
> 3) What exactly is the difference between the 371 and the 394, such that
> the factory J-2 intake won't fit the latter? Is there a difference in
> deck-height, or in port design, or in bolt pattern, or all of the above?
> Who knows the specifics on this one?

	Unfortunatly, I don't know the specifics on this one, but I've
been told the difference is in the head ports.  Physically, the blocks
should be same (except for displacement, obviously).  I've heard that both
intake and exhause ports are different, so no manifolds will interchange.

About three years ago I bought a pair of "dual exhaust" manifolds from a
fellow list memeber off his 371.  The only thing that made them dual
exhuast was a factory cast block off for the right side manifold that
bolted to my 394 manifold, so I never found out if they would interchange.
I've still got the manifolds, so I guess I could see if they are different
(my 394 is currently sitting on a stand so it would'nt be that hard).    

 
> I guess the easiest option would be to replace the dead 394 with a running
> '64 394, but since those motors are not on every junkyard lot these days,
> there must be some alternative, and the best would be the one that keeps
> the existing motor-mounts/transmission/exhaust hookups.

	
	Unfortunatly, if you plan on using the current exhaust, trans, and
mounts, the only option is another motor of that family.  While it is
possible to transplant another engine and trans, it would by necessity
have to be a Frankenstein with home-fabricated motor and transmission
mounts.  A custom driveshaft would prbobibly also be in the equasion.
That kind of swap is by no means impossible, obviously.  It's all just a
matter of how much time and $$ you would want to throw at it.  I remember
reading an article a while back in some magazine about a couple guys who
did this to a '60 Olds...they yanked the 394/jetaway, and put in a 350
Chubby and TH350 trans (AAAA!!  HURL!)  

	And yes, finding parts for these things is only getting harder
(believe me, I know!).  Like you said, the easiest thing would be to find
another 394, if a rebuild is too expensive.  But, they are out there.  I
know of at least a couple in the local yards here.  If you need any help
finding either parts or a complete engine just let me know.  Anyway, I
hope this is of at least *some* help :)

				Scott
			1960 Oldsmobile Rocket 98

	P.S.--I'll see what the deal is on thoes 371 manifolds...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:08:51 -0500
From: "David Brown (the Olds FAQ compiler)" <dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu>
Subject: new FAQ

This will be available in a very short time at a number of sites. The
site owners will be letting you know when and where. Enjoy over the
weekend!

In the next couple of weeks, I will be adding and correcting the links
in the Index section. I'll try to include as many corrections as
possible, so point 'em out, send 'em to me!
- -- 
David Brown     Mailto:dbrown@mailhub.mcis.uchicago.edu
         Oldsmobile Mailing List FAQ 3.0 at:
http://www.442.com   OR   http://www.en.com/users/thall

Conserve some bandwidth, get the zip file for local viewing:
             ftp://arl.arizona.edu/lists/olds

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:09:38 -0700
From: Erik Nowacki <enowacki@titan.com>
Subject: Re: SOHC Olds 455

>     And speaking of "my milling machine is bigger...", how about a set of 
>     SOHC cam carriers to go with the cross ram.  These have _got_ to be a 
>     lot easier than whittling out a DOHC 4-valve head.  That part about 
>     the raised camshaft seemed to put that one a little out of reach.  ;-)


I need to join this discussion.  There is a guy here in San Diego who
builds "cam boxes" for SBC's and SBF's.  These boxes bolt onto the heads
where the valvecovers mount.  The boxes contain a single cam which is
positioned directly over the valves.  The valves are adjusted by shims and
covered by a little cap to keep the shims in place, much like a motorcycle.
 The cams are driven by an external belt.

I talked to this guy, his name is Pete AArdema, at a local swapmeet and he
told me that he was working on a SOHC conversion kit for a BB Pontiac and
that he could do this for any engine where the valves are all in a line,
like they are in an Olds.

The regular SBC and SBF kits are approximately $2200.  I don't know what it
would cost to have him engineer one for an Olds motor.  I can probably find
him in the phonebook if anyone is interested.  Usual disclaimers apply, I
don't know the guy, I just saw his stuff at a swapmeet.  Looked pretty cool
and sounded really tight (SBC on a stand).

Erik Nowacki
San Diego
72 Vista Cruiser

------------------------------

End of oldsmobile-digest V1 #910
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